Should the E.U. create a Military?

[Waylander]

You have no idea of the backflow of money to the members or how the economy of your country is affected by the free trade arrangements of the EU, don't you?

I don't say that everything in the EU is good and shiny but just looking at the money you give is very shortsighted and doesn't include what really happens.

 

[Jambo_100]

Eu

its not just the money, its everything. the EU head council are a bunch of racist plebs. there was a massive article in the newspapers about it. the EU also manipulate the british laws. the main annoying one is that illegal immegrants can now pass into our country so much easier. and because of the EU law system we are no longer aloud to put of "wanted" posters for criminals because aparently its abusing their human rights. well its the general public who have the right to know who these stupid criminals are! britain isnt britain any more, our farmers and industries are going out of buisness. if the government are clever they wont change to the euro, its not as powerful as the pound. the pound is one of the most powerful currencys.
an EU military would be even worse!

anyway this is just my opinion, alot of people in the UK agree that its a bad thing. i can see you are not british so you probably have different views on it. i respect your opinion, so please dont get angry with me.

 

[Mouse]

I won't consider the idea bad, from some point, the EU did bring a group of mobs which have fight or even hate each other for hundreds or thousands of years under one currency and one flag. Can't you see that EU can solve dispute among it's members much better than the UN did which is on a larger scale and of course more difficult.

I think EU should set a model for the UN, As for the EU army, we have :haha NATO, Don't we.

 

[Waylander]

@Jambo_100
I am not angry.
But you are right, I am not thinking the same about the EU as you do.

And I am also on the same side when it comes to a EU army not being able to function but maybe for other reasons than you.

 

[Scott]

Would the purpose be to eliminate NATO? Is NATO still necessary? :unknown

Sorry, I'm new, has there been a thread that covered that topic already?

Many democrat politicians & much of US press would have us believe that most of Europe, with the primary exception of Great Britain, resents, dislikes and possibly even hates the US; and in particular 1) US dominance of NATO & 2) Bush foreign policy.

 

[Mouse]

Currently, US was greatly disliked by many nations around world for its policy which often seek its interest at the expense of others.
The dislike i mentioned can be sort in to two types.
1. people like US as a country but dislike the government. For example, in China, most of the people will consider US as a friendly foe rather than an imperialist monster, but they will consider P. Bush as a clown or a comedy star. I believe most of the Eu countries can be sort into this category.
2. people like to see every American hanged. For example, in the mid east, especially in the poor areas or where the US military ops often carried out. In fact, no insult, but some extremist just hate every body except their own kinds,American, Euopeans, Austrilian, Russian, Chinese.....Since in their religion, any one who disagree with them and be not the same ethic group as them are pagans and should be gone mentally or physically. That's the real threat to the international community.

So I believe NATO should exist as an important force to keep the world stable. Especially in a time that we are having more and more disputes and conflicts around the world. For example, your community may be safe, but it is always better for you to have a dog to watch for the possible intruders, right? (though, the dog can be taught to bite your neighbors )

 

[Jambo_100]

Nato

the NATO is definatly still necesary. it helps other nations that are torn by war and lets less powerful nations in europe to be supported by the US. yes the USA dominates the NATO but its a good thing trust me. because of it the NATO is a formidible fighting force. many europian countrys are safe under the US power but then all these people who hate americans come along-well they can get stuffed! americans are the nicest people i've met and i went there a couple of months ago and its great. we should be glad to have the the worlds most powerful country on our side. i welcome them

 

[Rich]

Currently, US was greatly disliked by many nations around world for its policy which often seek its interest at the expense of others.
The dislike i mentioned can be sort in to two types.
1. people like US as a country but dislike the government. For example, in China, most of the people will consider US as a friendly foe rather than an imperialist monster, but they will consider P. Bush as a clown or a comedy star. I believe most of the Eu countries can be sort into this category.
2. people like to see every American hanged. For example, in the mid east, especially in the poor areas or where the US military ops often carried out. In fact, no insult, but some extremist just hate every body except their own kinds,American, Euopeans, Austrilian, Russian, Chinese.....Since in their religion, any one who disagree with them and be not the same ethic group as them are pagans and should be gone mentally or physically. That's the real threat to the international community.

So I believe NATO should exist as an important force to keep the world stable. Especially in a time that we are having more and more disputes and conflicts around the world. For example, your community may be safe, but it is always better for you to have a dog to watch for the possible intruders, right? (though, the dog can be taught to bite your neighbors )

1, "Most of us in the USA" see China as a monstrous regime, ran by a bunch of clowns, who would send tanks in to run over students whom are merely protesting for their human rights. 1b, How do you know what Europeans think?

2, People would like to see the Chinese do something over here different then just owning restaurants. I mean it, were tired of it. And were really tired of meat in the dishes that look , and taste, like dog.

No insult mind you. Here, I have a present for you. http://www.thesolutioncafe.com/public-spell-checker.html

 

[old faithful]

1, "Most of us in the USA" see China as a monstrous regime, ran by a bunch of clowns, who would send tanks in to run over students whom are merely protesting for their human rights. 1b, How do you know what Europeans think?

2, People would like to see the Chinese do something over here different then just owning restaurants. I mean it, were tired of it. And were really tired of meat in the dishes that look , and taste, like dog.

No insult mind you. Here, I have a present for you. http://www.thesolutioncafe.com/public-spell-checker.html

WTF is that Rich? You are capable of posting non racsist comments,why have you stooped so low?

 

[eckherl]

1, "Most of us in the USA" see China as a monstrous regime, ran by a bunch of clowns, who would send tanks in to run over students whom are merely protesting for their human rights. 1b, How do you know what Europeans think?

2, People would like to see the Chinese do something over here different then just owning restaurants. I mean it, were tired of it. And were really tired of meat in the dishes that look , and taste, like dog.

No insult mind you. Here, I have a present for you. http://www.thesolutioncafe.com/public-spell-checker.html

Having a bad day Rich, please stop playing into this type of Rubbish. You are alot better than this. I think that Mouse was trying to express his opinion and did not mean to say it it in a negative way.

 

[Falstaff]

anyway this is just my opinion, alot of people in the UK agree that its a bad thing. i can see you are not british so you probably have different views on it. i respect your opinion, so please dont get angry with me.

I respect your view but have to say it's based on ignorance. I spent some months at Coventry and had a hard time arguing with people like you. I have the impression that EU-bashing has become some sort of sports in the UK without any background knowledge.
For a start: You're giving 20 bln but do you know where most of your products are sold to or how much you're getting out of the big blue purse? Btw, it's a legend that it's easier for illegals to conquer your country. It's been used by our far right politicians for years. Guess what? It's simply not true.
I'm sorry but you Brits are so obsessed with being special and better than us continentals, I wonder if you ever will know what it's like to drive from my hometown through Belgium to the dutch coast without control and pay my fries with our common currency, which gets more and more important on world markets.

European army? Yes, please. But I'm realistic enough to say it'll take another 50 years at least until a very basic step is taken and the participating countries give up their military sovereignty no matter what. A basic common understanding of foreign and security policy exists today already to some extent, but in most areas there still is too much controversy.
Plus there's a economical component: E.g. there are 4 proud MBT producing countries (UK, France, Italy and Germany). Can you imagine the outcry should a European ministry of defence select a Ariete III for the whole European army? I can't.

 

[McZosch]

I'm sorry but you Brits are so obsessed with being special and better than us continentals

If you would held elections about being an EU-member, around 70% of germans would vote NO. So I cannot see anything special in this case.
The problem is lack of information. I don't know the exact exchange rate, but 13.8 billion euro are certainly far from 20billion pound sterling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_statistics#EU_Budget
I see this as follows: everthing which is good in a country is taken by the local governement as a national achievement, everything which is bad is taken on account of the EU.

 

[Mouse]

European army? Yes, please. But I'm realistic enough to say it'll take another 50 years at least until a very basic step is taken and the participating countries give up their military sovereignty no matter what. A basic common understanding of foreign and security policy exists today already to some extent, but in most areas there still is too much controversy.

Good point.

But if EU army did created, what will be it's relationship with NATO? I am quite innocent that all the difference I know between NATO and EU army is with or without US? So what is purpose for a EU army other than against US ? Don't we have NATO already? Does any one cares to explain a little bit?

PS.
I guess Rich jumped because I said

but they will consider P. Bush as a clown or a comedy star.

The problem is P. Bush is one of the few American Leader they consider so. Former P. Clinton or Kennedy can wins a lot of respects. Why not P. bush？ Does anyone care to think about the cause?

And for the

, People would like to see the Chinese do something over here different then just owning restaurants. I mean it, were tired of it. And were really tired of meat in the dishes that look , and tasteike dog.,

I will make two points.
1.The foods are bad and those are not even considered Chinese Food in Chinese Standard, especially they put too much salt, Heavy oiled, broken the balance of taste....Well that's another topic
2.What makes you think Chinese only do restaurants. Americans have McDonald all over the world, especially in China does that mean to Chinese that Americans only do fast food?
Give you a link(put on http:// yourself )
factfinder.census.gov
A little research, you'll find that many Chinese American are well educated and working in the top institute in US. And don't tell me that the website I give is actually opened by PRC.......

 

[Grand Danois]

Hi Mouse,

A little hint when posting links.

If the URL is too long it will absolutely mess up the entire viewing and reading of the thread. Note what your link/URL did to this thread.

What you do is that you type a name for the link you wish to post, then you highlight it and click the insert link button. See attachment.

A dialog box will appear. Paste the URL in the dialog box. Click 'ok'.

Would be appreciated if you fixed it in above post.

Thx

 

[Mouse]

Excuse me as mess the thing up and think you for the hint

Please have my deep gratitude

 

[Falstaff]

If you would held elections about being an EU-member, around 70% of germans would vote NO. So I cannot see anything special in this case.
The problem is lack of information. I don't know the exact exchange rate, but 13.8 billion euro are certainly far from 20billion pound sterling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_statistics#EU_Budget
I see this as follows: everthing which is good in a country is taken by the local governement as a national achievement, everything which is bad is taken on account of the EU.

This is very, very true. However, what I experienced in England takes the term "euro-scepticism" to a whole new level, believe me.

But if EU army did created, what will be it's relationship with NATO? I am quite innocent that all the difference I know between NATO and EU army is with or without US? So what is purpose for a EU army other than against US ? Don't we have NATO already? Does any one cares to explain a little bit?

Don't forget Turkey and Canada Well, a joint European army would certainly be part of the NATO. The sense of creating a joint European army is not to counter the US as they are and will be our closest allies, it's more comparable to an economical fusion, hoping there are synergies to exploit. Imagine, every European country has its own army, air force and navy, ministry of defence and everything related to it. Combining forces would create a formidable fighting force, probably save money and enable the EU to act much more credibly.

 

[Scott]

European army? Yes, please. But I'm realistic enough to say it'll take another 50 years at least until a very basic step is taken and the participating countries give up their military sovereignty no matter what. A basic common understanding of foreign and security policy exists today already to some extent, but in most areas there still is too much controversy.

Plus there's a economical component: E.g. there are 4 proud MBT producing countries (UK, France, Italy and Germany). Can you imagine the outcry should a European ministry of defence select a Ariete III for the whole European army? I can't.

The reasons you cite would rightfully seem to preclude an EU army in the next century or more, barring a war or cataclysmic event that brought Europe together on an unprecedented scale.

It seems more likely for an EU Military Alliance as a step that would have to take place decades before the formation of an EU army. Whether this evolves out of NATO or replaces NATO remains to be seen.

 

[Rich]

WTF is that Rich? You are capable of posting non racsist comments,why have you stooped so low?

Whats racists about it mate? They do eat dogs. And learn to spell!

Apparently condecension and veiled insults about, and to, Americans are accepted in the International community. Tho, in Mouses case, its a little harder to glean because his english sucks.

Heres what I got from him.
1, The entire world dislikes the US. "get a life"
2, They like the US but hate our Government. "You'd think the Chinese have enough of their own government to hate".
3, Our elected President is a clown or comedy star. "As compared to your unelected Dictator and his band of muppets"?
4, Most European countries agree. "Well your leaders suck"
5, People like to see every American hanged. "Well screw you to".
6, We are NATOs dog, there to watch for possible intruders. And we can be trained to bit possible intruders. "And as a dog I certainly avoid Chinese restaurants".

See if you can figure it out Mouse? BTW, even tho the entire world hates the Chinese, wants to see them hanged, likes the Chinese people but hate the Goverment, which is led by a clown "mosts European countries agree", and we consider them dogs there only to guard south Asia.

With that, even with all that, I'm still not going to order Fido steaks when I visit China.

 

[old faithful]

Whats racists about it mate? They do eat dogs. And learn to spell!

Apparently condecension and veiled insults about, and to, Americans are accepted in the International community. Tho, in Mouses case, its a little harder to glean because his english sucks.

Heres what I got from him.
1, The entire world dislikes the US. "get a life"
2, They like the US but hate our Government. "You'd think the Chinese have enough of their own government to hate".
3, Our elected President is a clown or comedy star. "As compared to your unelected Dictator and his band of muppets"?
4, Most European countries agree. "Well your leaders suck"
5, People like to see every American hanged. "Well screw you to".
6, We are NATOs dog, there to watch for possible intruders. And we can be trained to bit possible intruders. "And as a dog I certainly avoid Chinese restaurants".

See if you can figure it out Mouse? BTW, even tho the entire world hates the Chinese, wants to see them hanged, likes the Chinese people but hate the Goverment, which is led by a clown "mosts European countries agree", and we consider them dogs there only to guard south Asia.

With that, even with all that, I'm still not going to order Fido steaks when I visit China.

please dont lecture me on spelling. I dont care that my spelling sucks. Although i see you make mistakes to. I understand how you feel insulted by the genralisations brandied about. I do to. But by responding the way you do,you only feed the fire. And by generalising that all Chinese do is run restaurants and feed on dogs is racist.
Also mouse,the rules state "no politics".

 

[old faithful]

As far as the EU createing its own military,I cant see how it would work. Each nation should be responsible for its own military.
An alliance,with units allocated on a rotational basis might work....But you already have that ...NATO. I remember some one suggesting that the UN have its own military, but that organization has proven itself to be next to useless. The funding for an EU military would be an extra drain on all of the EU partners economy.