The best caliber for a battle rifle?
- Thread starter Sgt.Banes
- Start date
The 5.56mm allows a great many rounds to be carried, but does not always inflict enough damage to put a soldier out of action, or even seriously wound them.
I would like to see something new, a 26 or 27 caliber round with slightly less velocity than the 223. An caseless round would keep the wieght down, but when was the last time anybody built a good gun that took caseless amo?
I would like to see something new, a 26 or 27 caliber round with slightly less velocity than the 223. An caseless round would keep the wieght down, but when was the last time anybody built a good gun that took caseless amo?
5,6mm
Damage caused by a bullet does also largely depend on its velocity. We had a 5,6mm round introduced with a initial velocity of 1200m/s which never got past the test-phase. This round would have caused very serious injuries even if it hit an arm or a leg. Today we are using the same round but with a initial velocity of 905m/s. There has been word that is to do with international law but i couldn't find a paragraph saying that the velocity of projectiles is to be limited to a certain value. This ammunition is, enough distance between rifle and target given, going through a lot.
Damage caused by a bullet does also largely depend on its velocity. We had a 5,6mm round introduced with a initial velocity of 1200m/s which never got past the test-phase. This round would have caused very serious injuries even if it hit an arm or a leg. Today we are using the same round but with a initial velocity of 905m/s. There has been word that is to do with international law but i couldn't find a paragraph saying that the velocity of projectiles is to be limited to a certain value. This ammunition is, enough distance between rifle and target given, going through a lot.
5.56mm for ARs and SAWs.
7.62mm for GPMGs, DMRs and Sniper Rifles.
With this combination the normal trooper has a weapon for which he is able to carry a huge amount of ammo, which is mich easier to control during auto-fire and for me deadly enough.
The US do not see a real problem with their 5.56 rifles in Iraq when it comes to lethality and they often enough use M4s with even less power than M16s.
And with the DMRs and GPMGs and 40mm grenades of every group they have enough firepower even at bigger ranges and for targets behind light cover.
7.62mm for GPMGs, DMRs and Sniper Rifles.
With this combination the normal trooper has a weapon for which he is able to carry a huge amount of ammo, which is mich easier to control during auto-fire and for me deadly enough.
The US do not see a real problem with their 5.56 rifles in Iraq when it comes to lethality and they often enough use M4s with even less power than M16s.
And with the DMRs and GPMGs and 40mm grenades of every group they have enough firepower even at bigger ranges and for targets behind light cover.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #5
Over 150 years ago, at least for widespread commercial sales of caseless ball ammo.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #6
I don't even think the United States army or marine corps has that many G.P.M.Gs. The Soviet Union had many 7.62X54R and 7.62X39 caliber GPMGs and SAWs.
Caliber
One thing i would find a good idea to consider is introducing a caliber that is used in all infantry weapons like assault rifles, machineguns as well as sniper rifles. For weapons would solemnly differ in rate of fire and it would simplify logistics and production as well as cutting costs for latter. So would caseless ammunition. For weapons with a high rate of fire like miniguns caseless creates a problem with overheating as the ejected case absorbs a lot of heat and takes the heat out of the system. Furthermore as far as I heard caseless also produces much more dirt which causes more malfunctions in weapons. Perhaps this are the reasons why no caseless ammunition has been introduced yet.
One thing i would find a good idea to consider is introducing a caliber that is used in all infantry weapons like assault rifles, machineguns as well as sniper rifles. For weapons would solemnly differ in rate of fire and it would simplify logistics and production as well as cutting costs for latter. So would caseless ammunition. For weapons with a high rate of fire like miniguns caseless creates a problem with overheating as the ejected case absorbs a lot of heat and takes the heat out of the system. Furthermore as far as I heard caseless also produces much more dirt which causes more malfunctions in weapons. Perhaps this are the reasons why no caseless ammunition has been introduced yet.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #9
The M60 is virtually phased out, and M240 is in the process to be phased out.
Boomer1961
New Member
.......and replaced by what? may I ask?
5.56mm best all around generic round for doing the most in most situations. In Iraq it seems to be adequate but in Afghanistan the 7.62mm is preferred and hopes of the 6.5mm and similar as a compromise between both was tossed around for a while.
If we are talking strictly about guns then I will say
Mark 7 16-inch/50-caliber gun
No one can argue that there choice has more stopping power than this one.
I know that M60 is nearly gone, because of that I wrote "before".
But I also never heard of M240 being on its way out.
It is more the other way around. Many units in Iraq tend to carry as much GPMGs and SAWs as possible with them when going onto MOUT combat missions. This resulted in some normally vehicle mounted M240 being converted for infantry use to cover the big need.
I don't really like a round between 5.56mm and 7.62mm.
It has the problem of many multimission systems. Ok at many missions but not a master at any.
But I also never heard of M240 being on its way out.
It is more the other way around. Many units in Iraq tend to carry as much GPMGs and SAWs as possible with them when going onto MOUT combat missions. This resulted in some normally vehicle mounted M240 being converted for infantry use to cover the big need.
I don't really like a round between 5.56mm and 7.62mm.
It has the problem of many multimission systems. Ok at many missions but not a master at any.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Hey, no-one ever specified "close quarter" combat for this thread, just "combat"... I would always fire upon the enemy from 2k's away, if I could. Makes the "2 way range" a bit easier to live with I should think... :shudderYour personal wet dream?
With a weight of 15,10kg I don't want to be the one carrying it. Unimportant how good it looks.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #16
The M60 was replaced by the M240, and the M240 will be replaced more or less by an MG produced by HK or FN. But the M240 will more or less remain in service till about 2015........and replaced by what? may I ask?
5.56mm best all around generic round for doing the most in most situations. In Iraq it seems to be adequate but in Afghanistan the 7.62mm is preferred and hopes of the 6.5mm and similar as a compromise between both was tossed around for a while.
If we are talking strictly about guns then I will say
Mark 7 16-inch/50-caliber gun
No one can argue that there choice has more stopping power than this one.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #17
Sorry about that aussie, I should have put open door combat.
And sorry to anyone else who was unsure.
You shouldn't underestimate the handling issue.
5.56mm is easier to handle. This makes a difference when you have to use it under stress, during auto-fire (MOUT!) and when giving the weapon to not that good trained soldiers like during a full scale war with drafting everybody you can get.
5.56mm is easier to handle. This makes a difference when you have to use it under stress, during auto-fire (MOUT!) and when giving the weapon to not that good trained soldiers like during a full scale war with drafting everybody you can get.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #19
Its not the handling that I'm concerned about, I simply want reassurance that the round I put down range, that I can take my target down.
I agree with that and for a trained infantryman my personal preference would be for a heavier calibre than the 5.56mm for most of an infantry section or squad, and I always liked the 7.62mm (BTW, I preferred this in its civie .308W guise over smaller calibres for hunting fallow deer in Tassie!). But for second line troops or even front line non infantry soldiers I think the 5.56mm is a good choice.
I always thought the mid 60's setup in my reserve unit of 6 x 7.62mm Fn SLRs, 1 x M60 GPMG and 2 x SMGs (forward scout and section leader), in a 9 man section, was well balanced. With M16s replacing the SMGs a few years later it was even better. Perhaps now I'd go for a Minimi in place of one of the 7.62mm rifles and obviously the GPMG and the rifles would be the best available today. So my preferred infantry section now would comprise 1 x 7.62mm GPMG, 1 x 5.56mm Minimi, 2 x 5.56mm carbines and 5 x 7.62mm rifles.
At platoon level one of Aussie Digger's XM109s would be a nice backup!
Those are my ideas on calibre but it's 40 years since I've been part of an infantry unit so I expect most serving soldiers will disagree!
Cheers