EA/18G Growler

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
This article in the Australian seems to sum up the airforce leadership's opinions of the FA18F including where it stands in relation to the F-15 and Eurofighter Typhoon:
Hornets could fill gap before JSFs, says Houston

February 14, 2007

BUYING 24 Super Hornet fighter bombers was the best plan should the government decide it needed to fill the gap between retirement of old F-111 bombers and delivery of new Joint Strike Fighters, defence head Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston said today.
Air Chief Marshal Houston said the government had made no decision yet on this plan which could cost up to $4 billion. However a decision was expected soon.

He said defence had given the government extensive advice on plans for future RAAF air combat capability.

Under that plan, F-111 strike bombers will be retired early next decade and their role, and that of F/A-18 Hornet fighters filled by the new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) from mid-decade.

However concerns have emerged that there could be a gap, particularly in the bomber role, between F-111 retirement and arrival of the JSF.

The government is now considering buying 24 advanced Boeing Super Hornets to fill any gap.

"This is a good way to go if you are going to have a bridging capability. This gives us the best capability for the least turbulence," Air Chief Marshal Houston told a Senate estimates committee hearing.

RAAF head Air Marshal Geoff Shepherd said there was no capability gap now, but there was a risk one could emerge as the RAAF's air combat force fell behind regional nations.

He said there were increasing risks in flying the F-111s with the potential for unanticipated problems. JSF was running on track but there were always risks of delay with such a complex program, he said.

Air Marshal Shepherd said a critical advantage of Super Hornet was that it was available soon.

Should the government give the go-ahead, the RAAF could have a first squadron in service by the end of 2010.

Air Marshal Shepherd said compared with aircraft such the F-15 and Eurofighter, the Super Hornet had a more advanced radar, better signature reduction, better networking capability, 35 per cent better combat range than current RAAF Hornets and would be operated by the US Navy to around 2030.

"We believe it is the most capable combat proven multi-role fourth generation fighter in the world today," he said.

"It is the only aircraft that has the most advanced AESA radar and it can network seamlessly into our future order of battle. It also, importantly, can fill a maritime strike role."

Air Marshal Shepherd said the RAAF future was an all-JSF combat force but there would be a mixed combat fleet until arrival of the final JSF bloc around 2018-2020.

Some defence commentators have suggested Australia's air combat requirements would be best met by acquiring the very advanced Lockheed F-22 Raptor.

Air Chief Marshal Houston said the US had consistently advised over the last three years that it would not sell Australia the F-22 and a letter from US Defense Secretary Gordon England to Defence Minister Brendan Nelson simply confirmed that.

- AAP
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21225043-31477,00.html

I thought Air Marshal Shepherd's comparison with aircraft such the F-15 and Eurofighter was particularly interesting.

Cheers
 
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Thumper

Banned Member
Magoo I stand corrected on the F-15 exports. My memory is faulty. I know everyone is saying that the F-22 will not be exported but I still think that eventually it will be. The USAF wants more than 189 birds and the only way top get that is if they can delay the closing of the line and decrease the unit cost. That said I think the Rhino is a great choice for any airforce. Apart from the Raptor, overall I think she is the most capable tactical AC deployed today.
 

tphuang

Super Moderator
This article in the Australian seems to sum up the airforce leadership's opinions of the FA18F including where it stands in relation to the F-15 and Eurofighter Typhoon:


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21225043-31477,00.html

I thought Air Marshal Shepherd's comparison with aircraft such the F-15 and Eurofighter was particularly interesting.

Cheers
not sure about that, once F-15E get APG-63v3/4, it should be on the same level as APG-79. And when it comes to RCS, I don't think super hornet has any major advantage over typhoon, but that's just me. And in terms of range, typhoon and F-15E have the edge.
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
not sure about that, once F-15E get APG-63v3/4, it should be on the same level as APG-79. And when it comes to RCS, I don't think super hornet has any major advantage over typhoon, but that's just me. And in terms of range, typhoon and F-15E have the edge.
I 'm happy to leave it to the experts to comment on the radar. You may well be correct tphuang, though I'd hope that the head of the air force would know what he was talking about.

I think the comments by Air Chief Marshal Houston and Air Marshal Shepherd were an attempt at damage control to explain why the RAAF is looking at an aircraft to bridge a capability gap that they have consistently stated doesn't exist. In fact the RAAF chief said, "there was no capability gap now' but went on to say that, "there was a risk one could emerge as the RAAF's air combat force fell behind regional nations." AM Houston also used Gordon England's letter to reinforce the fact that it was pointless the RAAF looking at the F-22, so between them, IMO, the two defence chiefs were attempting to counter claims in the media that the RAAF should be acquiring the F-22 instead of the F-35 and the Typhoon or F-15 instead of the FA-18F.

Cheers
 

drg

New Member
24 Super Hornets bought by Oz

Daily news show just had it that Oz air force has agreed to purchase 24 Super Hornets, though PM won't announce it till next month.
Any thoughts?

Cheers
 

Magoo

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Daily news show just had it that Oz air force has agreed to purchase 24 Super Hornets, though PM won't announce it till next month.
Any thoughts?

Cheers
Which daily news show???

BTW - there's a big thread on this a little further down.

Magoo
 
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A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Just got a tip that apparently JASSM IS being integrated at China Lake at present. Apparently there is some issue as to whether or not it will be able to carry the weapon on the mid and outer wing pylon, potentially restricting the SH to 2 or 3 weapons only (if 1 were to be carried on the centreline pylon).

Apparently F-15E has a problem with them too, only being able to carry JASSM on the 2x wing pylons and the centreline pylons.

If the JASSM can be carried on the mid wing pylon, this would mean 4x JASSM weapons could be carried by the Rhino. In the publicly available figures there is only a 5% difference in weights. The actual weights may be sufficient or alternatively might be able to be increased relatively easily.

Will be interesting to see anyhow...

Cheers.
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
The following comments by the Director General New Air Combat Capability, Air Vice-Marshal John Harvey about the F/A-18Fs appeared in the ADF Online Media Room today:


Director General New Air Combat Capability

Air Vice-Marshal John Harvey


...

There's also been a fair bit of press discussion recently about the consideration of the potential acquisition of a squadron of Super Hornet aircraft. Defence has always made the point and is still consistent that our long-term aim is an all JSF fleet to be the core of our air combat capability. But we've also acknowledged that the transition to that is quite complex task with a lot of moving pieces there.

There's the ongoing sustainment of the F1-11, working out when that should retire. The upgrade projects to the F-18, of which there are quite a few; the AEW&C, Vigilair(*) programs. So quite a few pieces there, and we've maintained options in the background all along in case we needed to do something if they looked like there'd be too much risk of a transition gap there at all.

And when the JSF was considered in the context of First Pass, Government looked at the options and they asked us to flesh out one of those a bit more; which was the Super Hornet option. So, we're providing more detail on that and Government will make the decision on whether or not they think that's required in the near future.

Again, there have been critics of the F-18 out there as a future aircraft. I'll just make the point that the F-18 is a highly advanced fourth generation aircraft. It will be in-service with the US Navy until around 2030, and it will gradually start being replaced by the JSF, or complemented by the JSF, from about 2015 onwards.

So, the Super Hornet is really the US Navy's frontline aircraft and it will be for quite some time yet. So, it's a highly capable aircraft and certainly capable of dealing with the likely threats that we see out there in the medium term.
I think this gives a good summary of the RAAF's thinking re selection of the FA-18F as a 'bridging' aircraft, noting that the final decision on this is yet to be made and is up to the government.

BTW is anyone else having difficulty in deciding where to post comments on the FA-18F, F-22 and JSF? I wonder if the mods ought to look at merging some of the current threads or perhaps come up with a new thread for posts involving the RAAF air combat force. I've posted bits of Air Vice-Marshal John Harvey's comments in three threads!

Cheers
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
A bit more info is available re: the F/A-18F purchase in the Hansard transcripts of the testimony of senior ADF members to the Senate Estimates committee on 14.02.2007 available here:

http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S9947.pdf

Some interesting points including AVM HArvey's "enthustiastic" comments about the benefits of the Super Hornet's ability to "buddy" refuel other Super Hornets (though presumably OTHER "hose and drogue" aircraft including "legacy" Hornets too.

Seems a distinct possibility that RAAF will acquire this capability if Government selects the Super Hornet option. Yay!
 

Turk

New Member
Australia has got already F-18s are I think they are good for Australia these fighters are so capable new F-18 mostly.

Mod edit: Hey Turk, I'm guessing English probably isn't your first language, but please try to put some more effort into your posts. They are very difficult to read in general and mostly make little sense.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but help you make an active contribution to the threads.

Regards

AD.
 
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A

Aussie Digger

Guest
F/A-18E/F officially selected for Australia

[FONT=&quot]$6 Billion to MAINTAIN AUSTRALIA’S [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]REGIONAL AIR SUPERIORITY[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Australia[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is assured of maintaining its air combat capability edge with the Government’s decision to acquire 24 F/A-18F Block II Super Hornet multi role aircraft. At a cost of approximately $6 billion over 10 years, the acquisition of the Super Hornet will ensure the transition to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter over the next decade. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The acquisition will include 24 aircraft, initial support and upfront training for aircrew and maintenance personnel.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Howard Government has delivered solid economic management and Budget surpluses over a decade. We are now in a position to deliver this for Australia. The acquisition of the Super Hornets will be fully supplemented as part of the 2007/08 Budget process.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The JSF is the most suitable aircraft for Australia’s future combat and strike needs. Australia remains fully committed to the JSF. But the Government is not prepared to accept any risk to air combat and strike capability during the transition to the JSF. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The F/A-18F Super Hornet is a highly capable, battle proven, multi role aircraft that is currently in service with the US Navy through to 2030. The next generation Block II Super Hornets will provide a more flexible operational capability than currently exists with the F-111. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Only last week Aviation Week reported [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Supporters of the design say it will give the Block II Boeing built Navy aircraft a fifth-generation capability similar to that of the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The Hornet’s electronic attack capabilities could become even more sophisticated with additional modifications.” – Aviation Week 26 February, 2007[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is anticipated that Australian personnel will begin Super Hornet training in the United States in 2009. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The selection of the Super Hornet builds on the Royal Australian Air Force’s deep understanding of the current F/A-18 fleet. The Block II Super Hornet will provide Air Force with the flexibility to assign all air combat crew and technical personnel across a relatively common fleet during the transition to the JSF.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Super Hornet will be based at RAAF Base Amberley. Negotiations for commercial support arrangements will commence immediately. Defence is already engaged with Boeing and the United States Navy to ensure that the maximum potential of Australian Industry Involvement is achieved. Local Industry participation will be a key factor in developing the through life support concepts for the Super Hornets. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Australian Super Hornet program plans to contain local contractor owned and operated[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]intermediate maintenance and training for aircrew and support personnel. Additionally, the supply chain infrastructure, warehousing and operation will be manned locally in support of both Australian and US Navy Super Hornets in the region.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The selection of a next generation fighter allows for upskilling of the workforce. The Super Hornet brings a significant growth of capability within the support and supply chain, low observable materials (stealth), advanced sensors and IT. This will ensure that Australian industry is trained, qualified and has access to both USN and then JSF markets as they share common technologies.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This in no way diminishes our commitment to the JSF Program subject to final Government approval in 2008. Current planning is for Australia to acquire its first JSF in 2013.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There is no gap in Australia’s air combat capability and the Government is taking all necessary steps to ensure a gap does not emerge.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Air combat capability is vital to defend the approaches to Australia and enables us to operate air power on deployment overseas. Our air combat forces are a key part of enhancing our land and maritime forces. This was most ably displayed by the combat performance of our F/A-18 squadron in Iraq in 2003. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Australian Government is committed to retaining the leading edge in air combat and the Block II Super Hornet will enable this through the next decade.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The F-111 has been a stalwart aircraft at the centre of Australia's strike capability for over three decades. The Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Geoff Shepherd, a pilot with around 2500 hours flying F-111’s, said it is important for Australia to retire the F-111 at a time of our choosing. This ensures that the men and women who operate them are not endangered through the risks of an aging platform. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The withdrawal of the F-111 is expected in 2010 with the F/A-18F Super Hornets to be operational that same year. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Many generations of Air Force personnel and Defence civilians will be sad to see the F-111 withdrawn from service in 2010. The Government acknowledges the tireless efforts and professionalism of personnel at Amberley who have maintained this vital element of Australia's Defence. The immense experience base from decades of F-111 service will boost the new air combat capability in the coming decade. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Our nation is grateful to those who gave Australia this magnificent aircraft, those who have flown and maintained it and who will do so for a further three years.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With the C-17 and KC-30B tanker refuelling aircraft also to be based out of Amberley, as well as the Wedgetail AEW&C support centre, the region is well placed to capitalise on these significant aerospace industry involvement opportunities. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Super Hornet provides Australia with the greatest capability enhancement and least risk option to ensure Australia’s capability edge.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Broadcast quality vision of the F/A-18 Super Hornet will be sent to television networks at Parliament House.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Further information and still imagery is available at http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2007/Mar/20070306/

Obtained from: www.defence.gov.au

This is fantastic news for RAAF's future capability. Particularly interesting is that the funding for this is completely supplementary and is not touching the NACC (F-35A) budget to acquire...

Another "first" for Australia...
[/FONT]
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
This is fantastic news for RAAF's future capability. Particularly interesting is that the funding for this is completely supplementary and is not touching the NACC (F-35A) budget to acquire...

Another "first" for Australia...
This certainly is good news. It means that the RAAF can plan ahead with real confidence. :)

IMO, it's also another example of the present Defence Minister acting with a decisiveness not seen in Australian government, over defence issues, for a long time.

Cheers
 

ssmoore

Member
Awesome. Should serve you well. Are any of you dissapointed that your govt didnt choose one of the other western fighters like the typoon or rafael? Just curious.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Awesome. Should serve you well. Are any of you dissapointed that your govt didnt choose one of the other western fighters like the typoon or rafael? Just curious.
Nope. Neither would be in-service with RAAF by 2010. (They'll be lucky to be fully operational in their own Countries by then).

Either would require RAAF to invest FAR more heavily in support, training assets and probably new weapon systems than the SH. Neither aircraft will have the support levels that we can receive from the USN.

Neither aircraft (yet) has the operational performance we require either, IMHO...

I'm happy enough with this acquisition and it will mean we can transition to F-35A in the middle of the next decade without having to rush anything and without having to buy too many of the obviously more expensive LRIP aircraft...
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
not dissapointed at all,but relieved that the purchase is not affecting the JSF budget...that is GREAT news!
 

ssmoore

Member
True and the Super Hornet would also be carrier capable if by chance you ever do get one. Not saying that will happen but you never know.

steve
 

knightrider4

Active Member
SuperBug

I guess as a replacement for the pig its ok. It will be a good maritime strike asset for sure is it cleared for JASSM??? I agree with everyone that its a relief it doesnt touch the JSF budget that is the main thing.
 

tiddles

New Member
A lot of lolly

I imagine that many will be surprised at the cost of $6 bill AUD considering the figures bandied around recently. This amounts to $4.6 bill USD which is reasonably close to some of the figs. mentioned, I had thought the previous costing put forth in the media was in AUD but I was obviously wrong, it is still a lot of bucks for 24 planes no matter which angle we look at it from. maybe the 10 year period for payment may play a part in the cost considering that all the planes will have been delivered in the next 3 years[I think] Makes you wonder what the final cost of the JSF will eventually be.
 
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