Future Military Contracts Worldwide

[suede]

Dear Forum

I am very much interested in future military programs around the globe, not ongoing programs but future opps. Mostly interested in high-spending programs. I would like in this thread to share/exchange knowledge with you.

I will start with the Indian program which is in an RFI phase for 126 fighter aircrafts, contenders are: Rafale, Gripen, F-16, F/A-18F, MiG-35, Eurofighter EF-2000, The total cost of the program will be somewhere near USD 9 billion

Another possible future program is Fighter Aircraft for Thailand with possible contenders: JAS-39 C/D, Su-30, and F/A-18 E/F

Another program that will be launched soon in Greece is the Frigate project, with contenders between USA, Germany, Spain and France, possible value of the project around 2.2 billion

Please feel free to add your comments, I will post more future projects in the future, I need also your feedback

Cheers

 

[Maskirovka]

You have the australian LAND17, a project to replace the artillerysystem with a new one IIRC. Sweden (Archer), France (Ceaser), Israel (ATMOS2000) and Singapore (Pegasus) are the contenders I believe. All but Singapore offers are SPH´s.

India is currently testing various howitzers and are planning 400-1000 new guns. They want both towed howitzers and SPH´s. IIRC the contenders are Sweden, Israel and France (South Africa was disqualified I think). So far the swedes with its Bofors FH77B05 L52 and the SPH version Archer seems to be the favourite after having outperformed its rivals.

I think Turkey is looking into buying attack helicopters. Southafrica (Rooivalk), USA (Super Cobra) and Eurocopter Tiger are the main contenders IIRC.

Offcourse you have the F-35 fighter wich many countries are thinking about. Some of its customers have now started to look into other fighters, mainly Denmark and Norway who are also evaluating the Gripen and Eurofighter. If they chooses not to go with the F-35 it could effect Netherlands and Belgium...

You have some former eastern-european countries searching for a new fighter for whom the F-35 is to expensive, such as Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Slovenia and Croatia. The contenders there should be used US F-16/F-18 or swedish Gripen. Croatia for instance were just offered two used (only 10 years old) Göteborg-class corvettes from the Gripen-group and the swedish navy.

UK have a project called FRES (Future Rapid Effect System), in wich more than 2000 vehicles is suppose to replace a bunch of different old vehicles in its armed forces. The only contender I know of is the swedish Hägglunds SEP (Modular Armoured Tactical System). Sweden BTW is allso looking into buying at least 500 SEP.

As for Sweden (with its new government and all) we don´t have that many major military programs in the near future. Perhaps the purchase of a couple of frigates (swedish or german I would guess) and maybe even buying 12-24 attack helicopters (decision will be made in 2010 I think), probably Apache or Tiger.

 

[Waylander]

Isn't PzH2000 also in the race for the new SPHs in Australia and India?

 

[Maskirovka]

Isn't PzH2000 also in the race for the new SPHs in Australia and India?

Not according to what I´ve read. I don´t know why it´s not an option for Australia but for India it would´nt simply work. The roads and bridges in Kashmir region could´nt hold its weight, and the mountainous terrain is a b*tch. Australia is perhaps thinking of mobility as well.

I think most countries today are moving away from heavy tank SPH´s to lighter truck-mounted versions like the Ceasar and Archer...

 

[Tasman]

Not according to what I´ve read. I don´t know why it´s not an option for Australia but for India it would´nt simply work. The roads and bridges in Kashmir region could´nt hold its weight, and the mountainous terrain is a b*tch. Australia is perhaps thinking of mobility as well.

Posts in the last few months in the thread Australian Army Discussions and Updates have certainly suggested that the PZH-2000 is in the running for the Australian contract.

Cheers

 

[Waylander]

Thanks for the information.

BTW the Bundeswehr is searching for a new ATGM as a replacement for the Milan.

Eurospike and Milan 2 are in the race.

 

[Maskirovka]

Posts in the last few months in the thread Australian Army Discussions and Updates have certainly suggested that the PZH-2000 is in the running for the Australian contract.

Cheers

Ok, now I´ve read that. Don´t know why I got the impression why Australia was´nt interested in heavy tracked SPH´s. Must have been that the previous tenders all where the kind of vehicles I mentioned before. Have the requirements changed due to the fact that Netherland may sell some of their used Pzh2000 or have AS-90, K-9 and similar allways been an option?

BTW, I remember reading another major purchase that might be upcoming. Venezuela is supposedly looking for nine (9!) new subs. Those should be russian offcourse.

And I don´t know what has happened to Saudi Arabia and its intention to buy Eurofighter. That purchase have been going back and forth several times so I don´t know whats the latest news are...

 

[Waylander]

The EF is bought.

 

[suede]

I would like to thank you all for the input so far

About the Saudi Eurofighter deal the latest news is that they dropped the fraud investigation in order not to damage the relations between countries (so that they say) as well as relations between Bae and Saudi Arabia. In my humble oppinion is that if they have scrapped the deal the next in-line condender would have been the French Rafale and the decision to stop investigations is more or less political.

(AFP article, 8/1/07)
...According to Attorney General Lord Peter Goldsmith, announced last month that the probe had been shelved because of its potential to harm national and international interests ...

(AFP article. 17/1/07)
British Prime Minister Tony Blair defended Thursday the dropping of a fraud probe into BAE Systems' weapons deals with Saudi Arabia, insisting it would have been "devastating" for Britain's interests to continue ...

Another potential future program comes again from Greece, is a contract that might float-up in 2007-2008, and the need is for 5 Maritime Patrol Aircrafrs. Possible condenders are Alenia Aeronautica, EADS Casa and Embraer, with platforms ATR 72, C-295 and EMB-145 respectively. Of course is the program for future fifth gen. aircraft. Most possible condenders are F-35 and Ef-2000, post probable the decision again will follow the rules of politics (winner will be the one who gives the best side-offers, incl. offsets)

I would like to ask if any forum member is aware of a future contract about 12 ( ? ) Hevy Lif/Utility Helicopters in India and if you know possible condenders.

I will follow up with more programs

cheers

 

[Maskirovka]

There you go. So is it 100% that Saudi Arabia has bought Eurofighter now, or can they still chose anything else? If they have, have many and whats the time schedule for introducing those lovely birds?

Speaking of Saudi Arabia. I think I recall something last autumn that Sweden and the house of al-Saud had signed some agreement in defencecorperation. This created a public outburst in Sweden since we have so strict laws when it comes to defencematerial to other countries but somehow this one was agreed and then you never heard of it again.
Some time afterwards I think I read that Saudi Arabia was interested in new and more AEW&C. I know they use those huge american systems today (AWACS?). Could it be the Saudis also want a smaller and more flexible system like the swedish Ericsson "Erieye" or do they want to get away more from american equipment (like the EF purchase)? The only ones I know of who are making AEW&C besides Sweden and USA are Israel and Russia/China. Israel is offcourse a no-no and the Saudis have never bought eastern gear AFAIK.
Anyone heard of Saudi and AEW&C plans?

 

[suede]

I think Turkey is looking into buying attack helicopters. Southafrica (Rooivalk), USA (Super Cobra) and Eurocopter Tiger are the main contenders IIRC.

About the ATAK helicopter program in Turkey originally was launched in the mid-1990s. Ankara in 2000 selected the U.S. Bell Helicopter Textron's AH-1Z, the U.S. Marine Command's attack helicopter, but cancelled the deal in 2005 after five years of contract talks failed due to irreconcilable differences on price and technology transfer matters.

SSM then launched a fresh competition for joint production of between 30 and 90 helicopter gunships, and this year short listed the Italian-British and South African options. (A-129 Mangusta International and Denel Aviation's Rooivalk CSH-2). Both of them never exported (so far)

The program has once again stalled, because according to 'Turkish Daily News' (21/12/06)... A move by Turkey's top defense procurement committee's civilian flank to choose one of the two official bidders for the Army's multibillion dollar program to buy at least 30 attack helicopters had to be cancelled after strong objections from the panel's military wing, officials and analysts said.

"It's apparent that the civilian government wanted to endorse either (the Italian-British) AgustaWestland's option or (the South African) Denel's alternative, but the military objected to both solutions," one defense analyst said. "As a result, no final decision emerged from the committee meeting, and I believe that the chances of both options have greatly diminished after the military's opposition." The attack helicopter issue was dropped out of the meeting's agenda after Buyukanit voiced the military's opposition to both AgustaWestland's A-129 Mangusta International and Denel Aviation's Rooivalk CSH-2 platforms, a defense source close to the gathering confirmed. ...

Probably (personal view) and FMS Sale of AH-64D will occur (a platform which was outside of the official competition)

 

[suede]

There you go. So is it 100% that Saudi Arabia has bought Eurofighter now, or can they still chose anything else? If they have, have many and whats the time schedule for introducing those lovely birds?

The worth of the deal is about USD 19 billion for 72 fighter aircrafts. I think that the will get a first batch of 24 fighters pretty soon, those fighters have been built initially to cover the needs of RAF

I know that Saudis want to re organize their armed forces so they will invest heavilly the coming years especially in C4I Technologies

 

[Maskirovka]

The worth of the deal is about USD 19 billion for 72 fighter aircrafts. I think that the will get a first batch of 24 fighters pretty soon, those fighters have been built initially to cover the needs of RAF

I know that Saudis want to re organize their armed forces so they will invest heavilly the coming years especially in C4I Technologies

Ok, ty. 19 billion for 72 aircrafts seems realy steep. Did´nt the austrians pay half of that for theirs Eurofighter? That sounds like the pricetag of a F-22...

So maybe the stuff I read about the Saudis was true then (with the controversial agreement with swedish defenceindustry and that). Ericsson is well known for its C4I Technologies.
Can´t figure it out how they will get permitted to sell anything to them tough...

 

[rattmuff]

Croatia for instance were just offered two used (only 10 years old) Göteborg-class corvettes from the Gripen-group and the swedish navy.

As for Sweden (with its new government and all) we don´t have that many major military programs in the near future. Perhaps the purchase of a couple of frigates (swedish or german I would guess) and maybe even buying 12-24 attack helicopters (decision will be made in 2010 I think), probably Apache or Tiger.

I want sources. Cause I've never heard of theese things.

The Swedish Armed Forces just got their Visby stelth-corvettes and recently ordered 18 plus seven optional NH 90 together with 20 Agusta A 109 LUHS(Light Utility Helicopter System).
Where is the need of a attack helicopter?


Here's a general forecast of projects going on around the world with most focus on the Swedish Armed Forces in a 25 year perspective from FMV and FOI.
http://www.fmv.se/upload/Bilder och dokument/English/TekniskPrognos_eng.pdf

 

[Maskirovka]

I want sources. Cause I've never heard of theese things.

The Swedish Armed Forces just got their Visby stelth-corvettes and recently ordered 18 plus seven optional NH 90 together with 20 Agusta A 109 LUHS(Light Utility Helicopter System).
Where is the need of a attack helicopter?


Here's a general forecast of projects going on around the world with most focus on the Swedish Armed Forces in a 25 year perspective from FMV and FOI.
http://www.fmv.se/upload/Bilder och dokument/English/TekniskPrognos_eng.pdf

Maybe you have never heard of these thing cause you don´t read the appropiate newspapers. BLT (Blekinge Läns Tidning) for example have written several stories about this (unfortunately their webpage only stores news a couple of days unless your a subscriber) and so have several other newspapers. According to the defenceagreement 2004 (Försvarsbeslut 04) sweden are suppose to have seven corvettes. Five Visby and the two Stockholm-corvettes. The more modern and absolutely more capable Göteborg-corvettes will be scrapped premature after only 15 years of service. The reason? The Stockholm-corvettes just went trough MLU (the are BTW more then 10 years older and not as half as capable as the Göteborg-class corvettes). HMS Göteborg has allready been discarded in the eyes of the navy. Shes been laying in port for almost a year.
HMS Sundsvall (I think) and HMS Gävle have just been trough a expensive modernization to make them into our "Rapid deployment force" for international service and that is just what the HMS Gävle is doing right now outside Lebanon. This modernization also included so they can work in warmer climate and more salty seas (like the mediterranien). So now Sweden wants to sell Gripen to Croatia, we have modern corvettes we have decided to scrap, and one of them just happened to be not so far away from the Croation coastline! What a coincidence. My guess is that HMS Gävle will never return to Sweden, either she is given to Croatia (with HMS Sundsvall) or she is scrapped down there.
This was reported in Croatia media in october 2007, thats four months ago, and it´s been discussed on swedish forums since then. Was it meant that HMS Gävle and Sundsvall was to be kept but they decided to sacrifice them in order to get this deal etc... However, pretty soon we will only have 5 Visby corvettes I suppose...

Yes, in the future we will get new TTH´s for the new Airborne assault battalion. And ever since we decided to create such a battalion it was also clear that attack helicopters were needed to give the battalion support. Otherwise the whole idea was useless. We had several helicopters here in the 90´s (Apache, Tiger, Cobra, even the Havoc) and tested them. The decision dragged on and have been delayed. The latest is that a new decision will be made in 2010-2012 so the choppers can be ready in 2015 when the battalion is suppose to be ready. Wether we get some or not? We´ll just have to wait a couple of years to tell....

I will try to find some sources for you. Jag kommer tillbaka

 

[andrei]

Romania's future plans for acquisition are
- news fighter plane up to 48. It was expected that procurement would take place this year. However there is already a row concerning the procurement of 7 Spartan transport plane - apparently the Casa was prefered my the military but some intense lobby by US/Italy pushed forward the acquisition of the Spartan and not the contract is stalled. We may have elections this year therefore, procurement of the new fighter plane will be delayed. Grippen had good hopes and the Israelis were pushing for modernised F16 but I believe time is not playing in the favor of these two options. The current air fleet of refurbished Lancer A (Mig 21) with Elbit electronics can remain active until 2010 so time is starting to run out. If you ask me Rafale or Typhoon are better options but there is the money issue.
Other procurement in order for Romania - Piranha III vehicles (48 ) have been ordered this year, Hummers, AT missiles, UAV survelliance mainly for the Rapid reaction force (operating in Irak/Israel).
The navy needs SAM and SSM for its two Type 22 frigates acquired from England, Gabriel (Israeli) and RBS 15 (Swedish ) are the front runner for the SSM which need to have a littoral capacity (Ship/land). New corvettes are also in the book order after 2008 and after 2010, three new submarines. C130 will be bought from the US probably once the row over medium transportation will be over

 

[suede]

Ok, ty. 19 billion for 72 aircrafts seems realy steep. Did´nt the austrians pay half of that for theirs Eurofighter? That sounds like the pricetag of a F-22...

So maybe the stuff I read about the Saudis was true then (with the controversial agreement with swedish defenceindustry and that). Ericsson is well known for its C4I Technologies.
Can´t figure it out how they will get permitted to sell anything to them tough...

True, the price tag is pretty high, but as far as i Know they will integrate top end avionics and a wide list of MBDAs weaponry, also in this price are integrated other costs like long term logistic support and lobbying expenses ; )

According to an article of Forecast Intl on 12/12/06

..."The Saudis are essentially engaged in a whole-scale overhaul of the structure of the regular armed forces, and a major upgrade of the paramilitary National Guard, which is the prime internal security force," said Tom Baranauskas, Forecast International's Middle East analyst. From best initial estimates, the Saudis will be spending about $40 billion on these procurements, but the total could go as high as $60 billion.

Signed or pending big ticket programs include Typhoon fighters for the Air Force, helicopters for all of the services, armored vehicles for the National Guard, new frigates for the Navy, and a multibillion-dollar security barrier for the entire length of the border. Notably, the Saudis are spreading the wealth around, with British, French and U.S. suppliers looking to benefit the most from the arms-buying spree. The intent is to prevent the country from becoming dependent on any one supplying nation...

 

[swerve]

...The only ones I know of who are making AEW&C besides Sweden and USA are Israel and Russia/China. ...

Italy & the UK both build AEW helicopters, & India has an indigenous AEW project.

 

[Waylander]

And Japan was a partner in the E-767 program I think.

 

[swerve]

The worth of the deal is about USD 19 billion for 72 fighter aircrafts. ...

I believe that figure is just speculation by reporters. No official figure has been revealed - indeed, since the deal is still being negotiated it's likely no figure has been decided yet!

Also, any Saudi contract price will include a lot more than the aircraft. Saudi Arabia is negotiating a deal to buy Typhoon plus weapons (Storm Shadow, Asraam, etc), some of which will also be for Saudi Tornados (there's a separate deal for upgrading them), & Saudi contracts always include long-term support. Whatever the final price is, I doubt more than half (& probably less) of it will be for the aircraft themselves.