Terrorists Target Pakistan

[tomahawk6]

Looks like a terrorist bombing campaign is underway targeting the security forces of Pakistan by the taliban and al qaeda. There have been six suicide bombings in two weeks time. The most recent at the airport in Islamabad.While the bombings have been largely ineffectual they will probably get worse.

These attacks may have made the government go on the offensive in South Waziristan and North Waziristan to root out the terror organizations that have decided to try and topple the Pakistani government.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/488120/980709

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\02\05\story_5-2-2007_pg1_1

 

[Rich]

A mistake I think. It should be noted Al Qaeda has made several strategic mistakes including this one. They had a vast network of support in the Gulf . and most of all Saudi Arabia, who could have happily lived with attacks on westerners forever. Al Qaeda made a mistake and started targeting the Saudi Arabian Royalty and leadership which ended up drying out much of their support on the Peninsula.

Blowing up average, working stiff, Pakistanis will work against them as well. Tactically, killing these people gives them no edge or advantage and could conceivably work against them. They should limit their targets to Government/Military officials instead. The Irish IRA made a similar mistake back in the 70s in a terror campaign where they bombed innocents, which ended up drying much of their International support.

Al Qaeda is no network of International master criminals. Their loose control network is both a strength and a weakness. Mostly they have succeeded due to the stupidity and weaknesses of the societies they have targeted. I mean training terrorists in your own flight schools to "fly but not land or take off"?? Now that is stupid!!:unknown

 

[uaf]

A mistake I think. It should be noted Al Qaeda has made several strategic mistakes including this one. They had a vast network of support in the Gulf . and most of all Saudi Arabia, who could have happily lived with attacks on westerners forever. Al Qaeda made a mistake and started targeting the Saudi Arabian Royalty and leadership which ended up drying out much of their support on the Peninsula.

Blowing up average, working stiff, Pakistanis will work against them as well. Tactically, killing these people gives them no edge or advantage and could conceivably work against them. They should limit their targets to Government/Military officials instead. The Irish IRA made a similar mistake back in the 70s in a terror campaign where they bombed innocents, which ended up drying much of their International support.

Al Qaeda is no network of International master criminals. Their loose control network is both a strength and a weakness. Mostly they have succeeded due to the stupidity and weaknesses of the societies they have targeted. I mean training terrorists in your own flight schools to "fly but not land or take off"?? Now that is stupid!!:unknown

Pakistan is not working against them ?? Hola 80,000 troops

If they have got safe heaven in S.A as you said (but you don’t know the reality a bit i bet you never visited the Kingdom) what source you got to prove they got support from Kingdom ?? the new coming from American Broadcasters ?? right let me give you an example

If you are measuring something from the scale and pretending its right what if the scale is wrong ??

Let me say Israel who is killing Hundreds of Palestinians and who is protecting USA , who is providing him the Weapons USA , and when the whole world in UN tries to put condemnation whose uses VETO power of course USA .. so brother who provides the safe heaven for a Country like Israel ???

Israel can kill Palestinians ya they can because the are strong they can have Atomic Bombs yup 200+ because they have the backing of super power......... others dont (vice versa)

(This post of mine might not be welcomed by webmaster but Mr. Rich its not the first time you are showing your hatred against Muslims a action should had been taken against you)

Sorry for such a post but Web Master should let you people know its not the site to discuses political matters )

 

[Rich]

I wasnt discussing "Political matters", I was discussing "strategy". Your the one who introduced Political, and Politically correct, disinformation, "what does Israel have to do with it"?

And then you , A-typically, drivel on about how I "hate Muslims". So I guess any objective analysis of terrorism, and terror tactics, must include a "hatred of Islam" eh? Well then, I feel suitably guilty.

To the webmaster, I am putting this guy on ignore because his mind wanders and he strays from the subject. He also "Politicalizes", what little of his English I can understand.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/

Pakistan is not working against them ?? Hola 80,000 troops

If they have got safe heaven in S.A as you said (but you don’t know the reality a bit i bet you never visited the Kingdom) what source you got to prove they got support from Kingdom ?? the new coming from American Broadcasters ?? right let me give you an example

If you are measuring something from the scale and pretending its right what if the scale is wrong ??

Let me say Israel who is killing Hundreds of Palestinians and who is protecting USA , who is providing him the Weapons USA , and when the whole world in UN tries to put condemnation whose uses VETO power of course USA .. so brother who provides the safe heaven for a Country like Israel ???

Israel can kill Palestinians ya they can because the are strong they can have Atomic Bombs yup 200+ because they have the backing of super power......... others dont (vice versa)

(This post of mine might not be welcomed by webmaster but Mr. Rich its not the first time you are showing your hatred against Muslims a action should had been taken against you)

Sorry for such a post but Web Master should let you people know its not the site to discuses political matters )

 

[uaf]

I wasnt discussing "Political matters", I was discussing "strategy". Your the one who introduced Political, and Politically correct, disinformation, "what does Israel have to do with it"?

And then you , A-typically, drivel on about how I "hate Muslims". So I guess any objective analysis of terrorism, and terror tactics, must include a "hatred of Islam" eh? Well then, I feel suitably guilty.

To the webmaster, I am putting this guy on ignore because his mind wanders and he strays from the subject. He also "Politicalizes", what little of his English I can understand.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/

well should i beleive 9/11 was fake and planned to start the so called war on terror .. what ? try these links

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/fake_opposition.htm

http://www.cryptogon.com/docs/Introducing%20the%20amazing%20Penta-Lawn%202000!%20(9-11).htm

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/index.html




and there is long list of conspiracies about 9/11

and you gave just one link which shows nothing but the Misinformation !

Cheers

 

[Tasman]

Pakistan is not working against them ?? Hola 80,000 troops

If they have got safe heaven in S.A as you said (but you don’t know the reality a bit i bet you never visited the Kingdom) what source you got to prove they got support from Kingdom ?? the new coming from American Broadcasters ?? right let me give you an example

If you are measuring something from the scale and pretending its right what if the scale is wrong ??

Let me say Israel who is killing Hundreds of Palestinians and who is protecting USA , who is providing him the Weapons USA , and when the whole world in UN tries to put condemnation whose uses VETO power of course USA .. so brother who provides the safe heaven for a Country like Israel ???

Israel can kill Palestinians ya they can because the are strong they can have Atomic Bombs yup 200+ because they have the backing of super power......... others dont (vice versa)

(This post of mine might not be welcomed by webmaster but Mr. Rich its not the first time you are showing your hatred against Muslims a action should had been taken against you)

Sorry for such a post but Web Master should let you people know its not the site to discuses political matters )

IMHO Rich's comment that:

Al Qaeda has made several strategic mistakes including this one

is clearly an assessment about strategy, not politics. I suspect practically every strategic military decision ever taken has had some political consequences but this surely doesn't make it politics and therefore outside the guidelines for this forum. Rich drew a connection with other similar miscalculations by other terrorist groups, including the IRA, by pointing out how some actions turned previous supporters against them.

Cheers

 

[webmaster]

uaf, relax.

What I gather from Rich's comments is that if Al-Qaeda is fighting and killing Pakistani civilians then those that would like to help Al-Qaeda elements on the borders would not support them and would work against (meaning with the authorities and 80k troop deployment by Pakistan army) them. What that means is that if they were not providing tips (because of fear or money, etc.) and where abouts of the terrorists who seek to kill innocent people before will do so because of al-qaeda targeting civilians.

Moreover, Pakistanis who share same feelings as Al-Qaeda would also be forced to reconsider their alignment with those that target civilians.

 

[uaf]

uaf, relax.

What I gather from Rich's comments is that if Al-Qaeda is fighting and killing Pakistani civilians then those that would like to help Al-Qaeda elements on the borders would not support them and would work against (meaning with the authorities and 80k troop deployment by Pakistan army) them. What that means is that if they were not providing tips (because of fear or money, etc.) and where abouts of the terrorists who seek to kill innocent people before will do so because of al-qaeda targeting civilians.

Moreover, Pakistanis who share same feelings as Al-Qaeda would also be forced to reconsider their alignment with those that target civilians.

Yes I agree with you and I never denied that there are some elements who are supporting Al-Qaeda in North Wazirastan ( very remote area having border with Afghanistan) now have about 80000 troops of Pak Army to crush those elements and believe me Pakistan is trying its best and still if people will use such comments Pakistan is not doing enough well that got to hurt and by doing this common people start to think Hey we are doing all this our soldiers are dieing we are utilizing our resources and still we are not friends erm .....

But any ways I apologize if I offended some one

Cheers

Ali

 

[kidwaibhai]

yeah i think that even the religious parties in pakistan are condemning these attacks which r the main supporters of these elements within pakistan

 

[bonita.h]

The mainstream media of Chinese government has recently reported that the police has attacked a trainning camp of the terror which has close relationship with Al Qaeda , annihilated a dozen terrorists. Do you think that is real?or just a pretext for the authority to wipe out the splittism exists in China's Xinjiang province which share border with pakistan ?
And what is the relations with the terror of China and those of Pak?

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

I read an arrtical in the Australian last week about china's sucsessfull campaign against Al Quaeda in Xinjian (i think) were over half the population is of persian decent and is muslim. They have implemented a combination of brutal strikes by PROC army and police against training camps and sympathisers, and a comprehensive economic campaign to create opportunities for non ethnic chinese in the province. Aparantly they have had great sucsess over the past 5 years significantly eroding Al Qaida's support in the region. So unless its all propaganda (which doesent really sound plausible) another strike against a terrorist camp is quite likely.

 

[Aussie Digger]

I read an arrtical in the Australian last week about china's sucsessfull campaign against Al Quaeda in Xinjian (i think) were over half the population is of persian decent and is muslim. They have implemented a combination of brutal strikes by PROC army and police against training camps and sympathisers, and a comprehensive economic campaign to create opportunities for non ethnic chinese in the province. Aparantly they have had great sucsess over the past 5 years significantly eroding Al Qaida's support in the region. So unless its all propaganda (which doesent really sound plausible) another strike against a terrorist camp is quite likely.

Yes, but we in the West are not allowed to launch "brutal strikes". Funny that.

Crushing your enemies ruthlessly is conducted in every part of the world an no-one says boo, except when the West needs to do it. Then apparently it's the worst thing in the world...

Our newspaper shrilly cry out in disgust when a single bomb misses it's target, yet entire tribes are put to death in many parts of the world, and what's said? I bet if the West did it, there'd be plenty said...

 

[merocaine]

Yes, but we in the West are not allowed to launch "brutal strikes". Funny that

Yes but we're not a communist dictatorship are we?
We used to wipe out whole tribes, ah the good old days, but nowadays we try to exercise some moral judgement, and put up with those pesky newspaper men.

Stupid question, if there of persian desent, would'ent they be Shia? I know that the Iranians Leadership made many visits to the region during state visits, plus they educated a lot of chincse mullahs in Qom during the 1980's and 90's, the chinese werent to happy when they found out the IRG had recruited a number of them. I dont think there is an real Al Queda presence in China( dont they like killing Shia), but I do know there is a seperatist movement inspired by the Iranian revolution, althought the Iranians dont help them out anymore, not since the Chinese threatened to end economic cooperation with Iran.

 

[Falstaff]

I too don't think there is a Al Quaeda-presence yet and if claimed it sure is an attempt to justify "brutal strikes" to outsiders. Look at Russia... A sticker on the back saying "international terrorism" justifies everything these days.
But if China does it the way Ozzy reports it sure is the right way to go. Giving economical opportunities to people means dealing with the roots of terrorism thus representing a somewhat strategic approach while military strikes mean dealing with it tactically. Good wholistic approach, if done so (IMHO).

There ia a big article in this week's "Der Spiegel" about Afghanistan and the border to Pakistan. As everything in it is rather well discussed already I'll just quote one figure: Every new man who fights for the Taliban gets 500€ a month and a motorcycle as a reward. A government official (teachers, policemen, etc.) gets 50.

I think the reconstruction component has been severely neglected so far in Afghanistan. People are still poor, they are trapped between NATO troops which they don't like and the Taliban which they don't like as well, the government in Kabul is weak, they don't have a judiciary system which the Taliban provided in a rudimental way.

Yes but we're not a communist dictatorship are we?
We used to wipe out whole tribes, ah the good old days, but nowadays we try to exercise some moral judgement, and put up with those pesky newspaper men.

I guess that the Chinese don't struggle too much with moral judgements. I don't want to say that's better but might be more successful if combined with economical "sweets" than our more careful way.

These attacks may have made the government go on the offensive in South Waziristan and North Waziristan to root out the terror organizations that have decided to try and topple the Pakistani government.

Waziristan sure is a Taliban contaminated area, but it is also tribal area. The only way to "root out" them terror organisations is making people wealthy. Taliban are poor and poorly educated people. The day these people have enough money for their families, a decent job and education the Taliban organisation is dead.

 

[merocaine]

I guess that the Chinese don't struggle too much with moral judgements. I don't want to say that's better but might be more successful if combined with economical "sweets" than our more careful way.

Well that was the idea in Iraq and afganistan, the most recent western adventures, but its got to be implemented right, both are failed ventures to date, but who knows, those things take a lot of time to get right, you have to be prepared to stick with them.
But better stop taking about Iraq or else the crazies will turn up

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

The really interesting thing about this aproach is indeed the aplication of force. Whether they're Al Quieda or not i'm not sure, it seems everyone calles anything that's muslim and unpleasant to them Al Quaieda, i just said what i read. Xiajian is alot like tibet, a conquered teritory with a local ethnic population being minoritised by chinese imagrants, so its probably alot more like a seperatist movement that happens to be muslim. The Brutal strikes made arn't the decicive thing itself, and the chinese apear to be looking at this problem from more than a tactical veiw. It seems the campaigns led by the US in Iraq and Afghanistan are slowly coming around to this point. I know there are vast reconstruction budgets, but the focus is still on killing the enemy, which the americans do exell at. Brute force is the minor tool that needs to be used in general, and in this case it seems that the moderate non chinese blaim the separatists for crackdowns, and have benifited from the chinese goverment in economic terms. As Flagstaff pointed out the local population in Afghanistan and Iraq have not, in general terms, benifited socially or economically from the occupations, and allthough reconstruction teams are rebuilding both contries, the focus still appears to be on closing with and "defeating" the enemy, rather than significantly improving the economic life of the average person. Perhaps something that could be learned.