Formidable Class Frigate

[contedicavour]

I agree. The Formidable class really is the envy of South East Asian navies. Also having 6 ships of this class IMHO makes the RSN the most "formidable" navy in ASEAN. hehe, : sorry for the pun.

Anyways tiny's question remains unanswered, how much are the Formidables costing the Singaporean tax payer? :unknown

Probably around 300 mln USD each at current €/$ exchange rates.
A French FREMM (larger but with most weapons systems in common) costs 365 mln USD each.

I agree the Delta/Formidable FFGs are the most powerful ships south of China, east of India and north of Australia.

cheers

 

[tphuang]

Probably around 300 mln USD each at current €/$ exchange rates.
A French FREMM (larger but with most weapons systems in common) costs 365 mln USD each.

I agree the Delta/Formidable FFGs are the most powerful ships south of China, east of India and north of Australia.

cheers

really?
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...mm-frigate-program-in-trouble-again/index.php

The FREMM program calls for a total of 17 French frigates and 10 Italian frigates, at a total cost of about EUR 11 billion euros with equipment, weapons and initial support thrown in. Italy's share of the FREMM program is estimated at about EUR 4 billion over ten years, or EUR 400 million ($483.3 million) per vessel.

7 billion for 17 FREMM, 417 million Euro = 535 million USD

 

[Red]

I think 1-2 billion USD with all the weaponry, technology transfers and systems. Newspaper reports mentioned 1 billion but I think it is just the empty ships minus weapons and systems.

I read a commentary by Janes 1-2 years ago on the Formidable and it was revealed that the Formidables can be easily upgraded in the future with newer systems. The 76mm gun, for example, can be replaced by a 127 mm one. The gun emplacement which is a squarish depression on the hull to preserve the stealth effect is built to accomodate the larger gun.

It has also been reported that the Slyver launchers will be upgraded to the
A70 vls launchers when the latter is ready sometime in the near futute or the A45 vls launchers. The Herakles radar can operate both Aster 15s and Aster30s.

I also read that the installation of illumuninators would allow the Herakles to guide the ESSMs and standard missiles. I have always preferred MK41s but I guess the cooperation with DCN makes it incumbent for us to buy Asters. The Asters are great missiles however; just that the missile load-out will be lesser(as compared to ESSMs and standards combined) though the formidable carries 32 Aster missiles. Maybe there will be a new block for Aster 15s which are smaller and can accomodate more missiles per silo. I think it is just the booster which needs to be miniturized. It would be the same size as the ESSMs otherwise.

Realistically, i doubt any SEA navy would need so many anti-air missiles currently. Im not sure about the future though.

 

[contedicavour]

really?
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...mm-frigate-program-in-trouble-again/index.php

7 billion for 17 FREMM, 417 million Euro = 535 million USD

Sorry but your quoted article dates back to Oct 2005 Back then we weren't even sure FREMM programme would survive after all !!
Since then unitary costs for Italian FREMM have been renegotiated at 320-350 mln euro (difference depends on Sylver A43 or A50) and 280 mln euro for French FREMM.
The rest of the cost is R&D for platform, weapons systems and sensors. I doubt such costs would be charged to international customers buying the shps off the shelf from France or Italy.

cheers

 

[tphuang]

Sorry but your quoted article dates back to Oct 2005 Back then we weren't even sure FREMM programme would survive after all !!
Since then unitary costs for Italian FREMM have been renegotiated at 320-350 mln euro (difference depends on Sylver A43 or A50) and 280 mln euro for French FREMM.
The rest of the cost is R&D for platform, weapons systems and sensors. I doubt such costs would be charged to international customers buying the shps off the shelf from France or Italy.

cheers

The cost of R&D should definitely be included in the unit price of these ships. Otherwise, F-22 would be 120 million per unit instead of 350 million. As for international customers, I really doubt that they would be charged any less. Normally, the domestic orders get the lowest pricing.

 

[luv2surf]

"But it would be unfair to compare them, as the Formidable class Frigates are nearer the weight of a DDG (weighing in at more than 4,000 GRT). The Lekiu's are less than 2,500 GRT."

More than 4000 GRT ? Do you have a link for that figure?

 

[Tasman]

"But it would be unfair to compare them, as the Formidable class Frigates are nearer the weight of a DDG (weighing in at more than 4,000 GRT). The Lekiu's are less than 2,500 GRT."

More than 4000 GRT ? Do you have a link for that figure?

Hmmm... The link I looked at shows the full load displacement of the Singapore Formidables as 3,200 tonnes.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/formidable/specs.html

The following link shows the Lekiu class as having a full load displacement of 2,270 tonnes, so the point made by Systems Addict that it is unfair to compare them is valid IMO:

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lekiu/specs.html

Cheers

 

[Red]

Yeah.They`re 3200 tons each.

 

[Red]

Hey, I found this from the thales web-site on the Herakles;

Performance Data
• Two axis mono pulse phased array radar
• 60 rpm rotation
• 3D air domain: 250 km
• Surface domain: 80 km
• Track capacity > 500 air + surface
• Monopulse + dedicated tracking for all air targets
• Splash spotting function for fire control on floating targets
• Fully compatible with Aster 15/30 missiles.

http://www.thales-naval.com/naval/pdf/herakles1.pdf

 

[contedicavour]

Hey, I found this from the thales web-site on the Herakles;

Performance Data
• Two axis mono pulse phased array radar
• 60 rpm rotation
• 3D air domain: 250 km
• Surface domain: 80 km
• Track capacity > 500 air + surface
• Monopulse + dedicated tracking for all air targets
• Splash spotting function for fire control on floating targets
• Fully compatible with Aster 15/30 missiles.

http://www.thales-naval.com/naval/pdf/herakles1.pdf

It's strange that the Herakles range has increased to 250 km.
Up to a few years ago it claimed 150km maximum, hence the compatibility issue with Aster 30 (range 120km).
Hmm Thales could have improved it of course, but I'm sceptical about such an improvement - may be the 250km refers to a big target such as a P3C ?

cheers

 

[Gambit79]

RSN Formidable Class Stealth Frigates


The Formidable class stealth frigates are much advance than any La Fayette class frigates in service with the French, Saudi and the Taiwanese navies.
The RSN ship are further shaped to be stealthier due to advance in ship building technologies and they as the most mobile of its class as compared to the rest.The operational range of Formidable class frigates is 7,200NM and not 4,000NM. The Herakles radar is rated as long range multi function new generation ship based radar that was selected by the French navy for her FREMM frigates.There were speculation going around that the RSN may operate up to 18 stealth frigates including the Formidable class.The RSN is also looking at possibilities to procure Aster 15/30 PAAMS system for all these ships as well as integrating them with SCALP cruise missiles.
Future procurement include LHD,stealth corvettes to replace the PVs, new generation SSK submarines, long range MPA, additional S70B platforms or other derivatives, USV and UAV.These procurements are neccessary as the RSN together with the SAF is evolving to achieve a 3G fighting force.
Once completed the RSN will have the technological might to even counter larger naval forces within the Asia Pacific region including China, India and Japan. Below are the speculation of the RSN inventory within the next 3 years.
1. 18 stealth frigates
2. 12 stealth corvettes
3. 2 LHD
4. 4 LST
5. 6 MCMV
6. 6 SSK Submarines
7. 6 Long Range MPA
8. 24 ASW/ASUW Helicopters
9. 40 LCAC
10. Unspecified number of missile armed USV/UAV and replenishment tankers.

 

[tphuang]

I think Herakles is a little overrated. I'm not a fan of combining both the task of air search and target data uplink to missiles into one radar. But, feel free to correct me here.

 

[swerve]

...
Below are the speculation of the RSN inventory within the next 3 years.
1. 18 stealth frigates
2. 12 stealth corvettes
3. 2 LHD
4. 4 LST
5. 6 MCMV
6. 6 SSK Submarines
7. 6 Long Range MPA
8. 24 ASW/ASUW Helicopters
9. 40 LCAC
10. Unspecified number of missile armed USV/UAV and replenishment tankers.

1. That means ordering, building & getting into service 12 new ships, in addition to current purchases. Not exactly realistic.
2. Again, 12 new ships in too short a time - and what's happened to the current 6 non-stealth corvettes?
3. Have to move bloody fast to get LHDs built & in service in 3 years.

Even if the ships could be built in time, where are you going to get the crews for so many new ships in such a short time?

Also, I doubt the Formidables have a range of 7200 nm. They're a bit too small & heavily armed for that, & I refer you to the RSN website - http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/mindef_websites/atozlistings/navy/assets/vessels.html

 

[Tasman]

The Formidable class stealth frigates are much advance than any La Fayette class frigates in service with the French, Saudi and the Taiwanese navies.
The RSN ship are further shaped to be stealthier due to advance in ship building technologies and they as the most mobile of its class as compared to the rest.The operational range of Formidable class frigates is 7,200NM and not 4,000NM. The Herakles radar is rated as long range multi function new generation ship based radar that was selected by the French navy for her FREMM frigates.There were speculation going around that the RSN may operate up to 18 stealth frigates including the Formidable class.The RSN is also looking at possibilities to procure Aster 15/30 PAAMS system for all these ships as well as integrating them with SCALP cruise missiles.
Future procurement include LHD,stealth corvettes to replace the PVs, new generation SSK submarines, long range MPA, additional S70B platforms or other derivatives, USV and UAV.These procurements are neccessary as the RSN together with the SAF is evolving to achieve a 3G fighting force.
Once completed the RSN will have the technological might to even counter larger naval forces within the Asia Pacific region including China, India and Japan. Below are the speculation of the RSN inventory within the next 3 years.
1. 18 stealth frigates
2. 12 stealth corvettes
3. 2 LHD
4. 4 LST
5. 6 MCMV
6. 6 SSK Submarines
7. 6 Long Range MPA
8. 24 ASW/ASUW Helicopters
9. 40 LCAC
10. Unspecified number of missile armed USV/UAV and replenishment tankers.

What is the source of this info? It seems like a huge fleet.

Cheers

 

[kotay]

There were speculation going around that the RSN may operate up to 18 stealth frigates including the Formidable class.

Future procurement include LHD,stealth corvettes to replace the PVs, new generation SSK submarines, long range MPA, additional S70B platforms or other derivatives, USV and UAV.

Once completed the RSN will have the technological might to even counter larger naval forces within the Asia Pacific region including China, India and Japan. Below are the speculation of the RSN inventory within the next 3 years.
1. 18 stealth frigates
2. 12 stealth corvettes
3. 2 LHD
4. 4 LST
5. 6 MCMV
6. 6 SSK Submarines
7. 6 Long Range MPA
8. 24 ASW/ASUW Helicopters
9. 40 LCAC
10. Unspecified number of missile armed USV/UAV and replenishment tankers.

:eek2

+12 frigates, 12 Stealth Corvettes, 2 LHDs, +18 Helos, 40 LCACs and replenishment tankers!

Where is Singapore going to get the money and manpower for all these "within the next 3 years" or even at all? Bear in mind that there are 2 other combat arms that also need to be maintained and upgraded for this 3G transformation thingy ...

I am curious as to the source of this "speculation" and find it quite unlikely that Singapore and the RSN will attempt to position itself as a maritime power to "counter larger naval forces within the Asia Pacific region including China, India and Japan." I can picture the RSN as a participant in a coalition (eg FPDA) against a threat but certainly not as a unitary defender of a free SEA, let alone the Asia Pacific ...

 

[kotay]

1. That means ordering, building & getting into service 12 new ships, in addition to current purchases. Not exactly realistic.
2. Again, 12 new ships in too short a time - and what's happened to the current 6 non-stealth corvettes?
3. Have to move bloody fast to get LHDs built & in service in 3 years.

Even if the ships could be built in time, where are you going to get the crews for so many new ships in such a short time?

Given that the RSN currently operates 4 classes of surface combatants ...
1) Formidable Stealth Frigates
2) Victory Class Corvettes
3) Seawolf Class MGBs
4) Fearless Class PVs.

And that the Formidables are a replacement for the Sea Wolfs, that leaves 16 Corvettes/Patrol Vessels, all of which are only 8-16 years old.

I find it incredulous that the RSN will either
i) willingly retire such relatively "new" assets and replace them with 12 frigates and 12 corvettes or ...
ii) operate the 24 new stealth platforms in addition to the above ...

and yeah ... all in 3 years too

 

[Ramjetmissile]

1. 18 stealth frigates
2. 12 stealth corvettes
3. 2 LHD
4. 4 LST
5. 6 MCMV
6. 6 SSK Submarines
7. 6 Long Range MPA
8. 24 ASW/ASUW Helicopters
9. 40 LCAC

----------------------------
overexaggerated, even should singapore possess the budget to procure such a large fleet, where are they gonna get the manpower? and maintainence could be another major headache.
Besides possessing such a large fleet will eventually effects political stability and upset her neighbours.


The RSN is also looking at possibilities to procure Aster 15/30 PAAMS system for all these ships as well as integrating them with SCALP cruise missiles

this is the only statement which i view it as having a high possibility
of an acquisition

 

[Tiny]

hahaha thats a good one, so from ur sources, are we getting any carriers any time soon?

 

[Transient]

I think Herakles is a little overrated. I'm not a fan of combining both the task of air search and target data uplink to missiles into one radar. But, feel free to correct me here.

That is exactly what's done by the SPY-1. Multi-function radar is the way of the future, if you have have made even a cursory observation of the trends in naval radars. In future, horizon search, periscope detection etc will all be done in addition to the two tasks you mentioned, all on the same radar.

 

[Tiny]

The Formidable class stealth frigates are much advance than any La Fayette class frigates in service with the French, Saudi and the Taiwanese navies.
The RSN ship are further shaped to be stealthier due to advance in ship building technologies and they as the most mobile of its class as compared to the rest.The operational range of Formidable class frigates is 7,200NM and not 4,000NM. The Herakles radar is rated as long range multi function new generation ship based radar that was selected by the French navy for her FREMM frigates.There were speculation going around that the RSN may operate up to 18 stealth frigates including the Formidable class.The RSN is also looking at possibilities to procure Aster 15/30 PAAMS system for all these ships as well as integrating them with SCALP cruise missiles.
Future procurement include LHD,stealth corvettes to replace the PVs, new generation SSK submarines, long range MPA, additional S70B platforms or other derivatives, USV and UAV.These procurements are neccessary as the RSN together with the SAF is evolving to achieve a 3G fighting force.
Once completed the RSN will have the technological might to even counter larger naval forces within the Asia Pacific region including China, India and Japan. Below are the speculation of the RSN inventory within the next 3 years.
1. 18 stealth frigates
2. 12 stealth corvettes
3. 2 LHD
4. 4 LST
5. 6 MCMV
6. 6 SSK Submarines
7. 6 Long Range MPA
8. 24 ASW/ASUW Helicopters
9. 40 LCAC
10. Unspecified number of missile armed USV/UAV and replenishment tankers.

hahaha thats a good one, nfloorl: so from ur sources, are we getting any carriers any time soon? this reply superceeds my previous post.