The Canadian troops learned this during the Bosnian conflict. Some of the dead bodies were laid on top of bounding mines. The peacekeepers were instructed not to touch the bodies due to this reason.
How much ammo should a normal Infantryman carry?
- Thread starter TrangleC
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The sole good part of beeing in artillery was that where ever we went, we always went by our beloved trucks, and so no marching with full gear never...Ofcourse this sligth benefit was corrected by the pain&suffering in the fire position, so those infatry didn't got much to say when it come to the fact who got by with easy...
we did march in the basic combat gear couple of time for some 20-30 km marches. And skiied it once too...
Also they told us that no one was excepted to go on with total package over 50% of his body weigth r...thougth in practice this applyed mostly to the fat ones and skinny lads like me with just above 55 kg, didn't get any expections... It was mostly told to us to keep the spirit up after they had explained what includes in the field kit...I wonder was there similar fables in other armies.
we did march in the basic combat gear couple of time for some 20-30 km marches. And skiied it once too...
Also they told us that no one was excepted to go on with total package over 50% of his body weigth r...thougth in practice this applyed mostly to the fat ones and skinny lads like me with just above 55 kg, didn't get any expections... It was mostly told to us to keep the spirit up after they had explained what includes in the field kit...I wonder was there similar fables in other armies.
Yea - That is what I thought, I would be able to just get on my iron chariot and ride until I would get stationed with officers who thought they were badder and meaner then Chuck NorrisJup, every kilo is important.
If I look back at one march during basic training with 25kg equipment + weapon and 28km in bad ass weather with half the march on roads and some funny fire fights in it I could puke again.
Man was I lucky to join armored corps.
and used to give us the line that if your tank is knocked out you have just become infantry.:shudder . I even had one Commander who used to make us run carrying the coax machine guns off of the tanks.Excellant improvised use for this tool, I will convey that to some guy`s that I know who are stationed in Iraq.
It wasn't improvised, it was done on purpose. Apart from that, if it saves a few diggers' lives, you're welcome to the information. Just make sure no one from the media or the Redcaps sees you doing it. I don't doubt they would get the wrong idea about it's utility.Excellant improvised use for this tool, I will convey that to some guy`s that I know who are stationed in Iraq.
That sounds about right. My heaviest load that I carried was around 70 kg. It was only for an intial deployment but the move from the LZ to our platoon position in the blazing tropical heat, did bad things to my feet. We had marching order plus our Ech bags with some extra crap for this deployment. Once in our position we didn't really go over board with weight for patrolling. Maybe 15-20 kg for a standing patrol. Mainly ammo, water, rations, med kit, and radio equipment (batteries). We normally had 2 patrols out at one time so out of 44 men we were rather busy.
In our battalion 300 rounds each was the minimum after we converted to the F88 (Oz versian of the Steyr) all mags bombed up and the remainder loose or in those plastic speedloader clips wrapped up in a sandbag.
That with the claymores the 66s, belts for the m60 and most of all water usually 4 - 6 liters minimum, rats my pack would weigh close to 50 kgs and everyone elses wasnt far off 50 either (Sig and gunner over), That with a bare minimum of personal gear.
Another use for the meathook (i was told) was to drag our own dead out from a contact area (put it in between the shoulderblade and spine and drag).
That with the claymores the 66s, belts for the m60 and most of all water usually 4 - 6 liters minimum, rats my pack would weigh close to 50 kgs and everyone elses wasnt far off 50 either (Sig and gunner over), That with a bare minimum of personal gear.
Another use for the meathook (i was told) was to drag our own dead out from a contact area (put it in between the shoulderblade and spine and drag).
The average swedish soldier get (in case of war) 30x4 rounds + 2 boxes with 30 rounds each, probibly one AT4, one anti-tank mine and enogh hand grenades to fill the pockets (0-10). This amount should last "very long" as the instructors said.
I have no idea how it works in international service.
I have no idea how it works in international service.
So it's no myth that Aussie soldiers carry more than just about any other nation then?
I had to carry 50kg (110lbs) on a two day patrol in the Solomons which was absolutely hellish. It was only about 20km but the humidity, the mud, the jungle and the mountains meant it took two days.
I had about the lightest load in the patrol, too. The poor old sig was carrying over 60kg. The bulk of my weight was made up of body armour and helmet (about 10kg, carried IN PACKS), 12 litres of water (no resupply!), two rat packs, rifle with 203, full ammo, rations, spare battery for the radio, NVG and so on. The army's obsession with redundancy meant we were carrying far more than we needed.
The SF-police with us had the right idea - I doubt any of them carried over 20kg yet they still had everything they needed. Their comms were a pair of handheld satellite phones! We had the army issue sat phone (which is as big and heavy as a patrol radio), VHF -and- HF radio to be carried between 10 of us.
I had to carry 50kg (110lbs) on a two day patrol in the Solomons which was absolutely hellish. It was only about 20km but the humidity, the mud, the jungle and the mountains meant it took two days.
I had about the lightest load in the patrol, too. The poor old sig was carrying over 60kg. The bulk of my weight was made up of body armour and helmet (about 10kg, carried IN PACKS), 12 litres of water (no resupply!), two rat packs, rifle with 203, full ammo, rations, spare battery for the radio, NVG and so on. The army's obsession with redundancy meant we were carrying far more than we needed.
The SF-police with us had the right idea - I doubt any of them carried over 20kg yet they still had everything they needed. Their comms were a pair of handheld satellite phones! We had the army issue sat phone (which is as big and heavy as a patrol radio), VHF -and- HF radio to be carried between 10 of us.
Old memory, we are carrying 3 contact rate. PRC 77 set should be replace by the lighter digital set, reserve training still using the old set for training but not for operation if activate. SAW gunner not that bad, MG gunner is the worse, 1 belt of 250 MG rd is 50kg & they need to carry 6 belts (share with the assistance).
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #52
Are you sure? Seems a bit much to me. That would mean that one round weights 0.2 kg, even with a 250th part of the belt that seems much to me. I never put any rifle rounds on a scale, but i held them in my hands and i don't recall one of them weighting as much as 2 average bars of chockolate. And i'm pretty sure a 20 round mag for a G3 didn't weight 4 kg (which would be pretty exactly the weight of one gallon of water).
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #53
(Um... can't find a edit button. Guess i waited too long.)
And besides, 3 belts (you said 6 belts on 2 men) would weight 150 kg. That's as much as a motor bike weights, or two grown men. Not even the strongest man would be able to carry that much weight and still walk more than a few metres.
Is it possible you meant that 3 belts together weight 50 kg?
And besides, 3 belts (you said 6 belts on 2 men) would weight 150 kg. That's as much as a motor bike weights, or two grown men. Not even the strongest man would be able to carry that much weight and still walk more than a few metres.
Is it possible you meant that 3 belts together weight 50 kg?
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
If you believe Andy McNab, (and none of the other books disputes the equipment levels they carried) each of his patrol carried 99kg's (210 pounds) of kit "off" the Chinook helo that inserted them. They managed to carry this load a maximum of about 2 kays into a hide.
As to a "MG" belt weighing 50kg's. What "machine gun" belt? An F-89A1 "Minimi" belt, MAG-58 7.62mm belt or a 12.7mm belt.
a 200 round Minimi belt certainly weighs NOTHING like 50 kg's. I remember a particular course where I was a gunner. I had (usually) 200 rounds on the gun, 400 rounds in my Minimi pouches and another 800 boxed rounds in my pack. A total of 1400 rounds of ammo, plus the gun, plus all the other crap, came no-where NEAR 50 kg's.
IIRC, an M2 12.7mm machine gun weighs 36 kg's. Are you honestly trying to tell us a 250 rnd machine gun "belt" weighs 14kg's more than a 0.50cal HMG???
I think your memory might be playing you false there mate...
Maybe he meant a combine weight of 7.62mm x 250 x 6 or he meant lbs.
I had a load of 750rd of 7.62 short and it was rather weighty nothing near 50kgs, mind you!
But, the weights that we carried were over the top. On one Ex I had to div up 48 1L IV bags because of where we were going and the heat. We had 4 guys drop and each guy got 4-6 over a ~12 hour period. Which the boys were very happy to loose.
Resupply and Casevac was in short supply as usual and water/IV's were a must. One of the limits to an Army based around Lt Infantry with limited troop lift and a bloody large land to play in.
Maybe the Lt Cav idea for some Bns would be a cheaper way of over coming the short fall off not having enough troop lift. A 2nd class ride is better than a 1st class walk. Kind of Light Horse of old idea.
Not trying to take this off thread but having 3Bde rolling one Bn in Landrovers would take the pressure of 3/4Cav and 5Avvn. Until the longer term IMV/Land 121 project comes into full effect.
Back on thread...we could carry loads more ammo then!
I had a load of 750rd of 7.62 short and it was rather weighty nothing near 50kgs, mind you!
But, the weights that we carried were over the top. On one Ex I had to div up 48 1L IV bags because of where we were going and the heat. We had 4 guys drop and each guy got 4-6 over a ~12 hour period. Which the boys were very happy to loose.
Resupply and Casevac was in short supply as usual and water/IV's were a must. One of the limits to an Army based around Lt Infantry with limited troop lift and a bloody large land to play in.
Maybe the Lt Cav idea for some Bns would be a cheaper way of over coming the short fall off not having enough troop lift. A 2nd class ride is better than a 1st class walk. Kind of Light Horse of old idea.
Not trying to take this off thread but having 3Bde rolling one Bn in Landrovers would take the pressure of 3/4Cav and 5Avvn. Until the longer term IMV/Land 121 project comes into full effect.
Back on thread...we could carry loads more ammo then!
Man, I am not very jealous of your environment.
Nice middle european nature with some wood, some open fields, normal temperatures and not to high hills (As long as you are not in the alps) is much better than what you guys are talking about.
(Not to meantion an army with transport assets for everybody even our light infantry )
Nice middle european nature with some wood, some open fields, normal temperatures and not to high hills (As long as you are not in the alps) is much better than what you guys are talking about.
(Not to meantion an army with transport assets for everybody even our light infantry
)It's true our enviroment is dangerous. With hot and dry conditions. Its unforgiving to the fool hardy who take a trip to the outback without proper preparations. But, its our home!
I just beats the hell out of me why we haven't been motorised years ago. With our history of the light horse (who were horse mounted infantry), who rode to battle and dismounted for the fight (except that time during Beasheeba- spelling??). We have had Camel mounted troops aswell. That we now and for the near future to have at least motorised our Infantry in general. Combat loads and ammo wouldn't be so much of an issue and we could bring our brilliant fighting skill and the ANZAC legend would continue to grow.
We should bring out a campaign to say "Give us wheels or loose us forever!".
or bring bacl the Light Horse of old (but with wheels).
Ok, no more...on this..in this tread...! I shall return (maybe in another thread).
Rant over!
I just beats the hell out of me why we haven't been motorised years ago. With our history of the light horse (who were horse mounted infantry), who rode to battle and dismounted for the fight (except that time during Beasheeba- spelling??). We have had Camel mounted troops aswell. That we now and for the near future to have at least motorised our Infantry in general. Combat loads and ammo wouldn't be so much of an issue and we could bring our brilliant fighting skill and the ANZAC legend would continue to grow.
We should bring out a campaign to say "Give us wheels or loose us forever!".
or bring bacl the Light Horse of old (but with wheels).
Ok, no more...on this..in this tread...! I shall return (maybe in another thread).
Rant over!
I forget the weight of 5.56 link but 200 rounds of 7.62 is about 5kg. (Edited: I think it's actually a 200 round belt of 7.62 that is just over 5kg... can anyone confirm? I can't seem to find anything online about it!)
Oh and Waylander, I'd like to see your vehicle-mounted light inf operating in the jungles of Guadalcanal in the Solomons.
They'd be quite literally crying. nfloorl:It's "horses for courses" I'm afraid. The sort of environment we operate in means we need to be able to carry heavy loads on foot. But the Bushmaster should help a lot.
As for McNab, IIRC it's said in some of the books that they carried the weight in relays. Took their packs to the hide then came back with covering parties for the rest.
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Because of this I said that I'm thankfull for our natural environment.
Our light infantry or mountain infantry also does not uses transport assets everytime like during heavy wood or high mountains (BTW, we use mules in the mountains for euqipment transport. Still the best "vehicle" there).
For sure in jungle terrain normal transport assets are not very usefull but a country with that much wide and open are to cover should at least motorize all of their light infantry. If you always use the transport assets is another question but you have them when you need them.
Our light infantry or mountain infantry also does not uses transport assets everytime like during heavy wood or high mountains (BTW, we use mules in the mountains for euqipment transport. Still the best "vehicle" there).
For sure in jungle terrain normal transport assets are not very usefull but a country with that much wide and open are to cover should at least motorize all of their light infantry. If you always use the transport assets is another question but you have them when you need them.
The German army still uses mules? That's awesome! Excellent idea for mountains, would probably work quite well in jungles too as long as fodder could be provided.
The thing you have to understand about the Australian Army is that its structure is still to this day influenced by the "Forward Defence" attitude of the 1950s to 1970s. Australian infantry was geared towards operating in the jungles of south-east Asia - and still is. This meant heavy gear, long distances on foot and limited resupply, and organic vehicles weren't much of a priority under Foward Defence. Infantry battalions had a transport platoon but the bulk of the transport was provided at brigade level. It would be there when needed but was not organic.
Post-Vietnam the government changed its policy to the Defence of Australia (DoA) which stressed army units operating in the north of Australia instead of in the SE Asian jungles. This is where the Bushmaster evolved from - organic light protected vehicles.
Now DoA is dead (thankfully, to most people who know anything about it) so the army is starting to reorganise itself as a light armour force. This will result in all the light infantry battalions being motorised to some degree. Hopefully it won't result in our battalions losing their conditioning to be able to march 80+km in full marching order...