How much ammo should a normal Infantryman carry?

[Mick73]

I remember reading an article on the Falklands War regarding ammo usage during the war. If remember it right, during the first hour of the battle at Goose Green (I think it was B Coy) was rather short on ammo. I believe 60-120 of 7.62mm were carried by the SLR equipt guys and they went though that to point that they had to take ammo off the dead Argentinians. After that engagment and after more supplies were available, they bombed up a lot more for future battles.
I guess the reason today for carrying more ammo by the Australian army is based of the experiences of other and our supply abilities.
However saying that we or in my case I use to take it easy on firing full auto bursts and kept a slower rate of continuous fire, with single shot. Doing the "tunnel of love" with full auto was rather hairy and not really needed.
Also dumping some 3 rounds of trace in the bottom of ya mag helped with mag changes.

 

[merocaine]

His biography is here: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._L._A._Marshall

The article covers most of the contraversy surrounding his work. Today it is considered considerably suspect being based upon poor premises and poor analysis of the resulting statistics gathered. However, that doesn't necessarily mean his viewpoint is wrong, merely that it is suspect. Interestingly, during the 1990s when the US Army was running a new rifle competition, several of the competiting designs were heavily influenced by Marshall, relying upon concepts like firing all tracer and only on fully-automatic. Not surprisingly, they didn't win much favour.

Most of what I know about SLA Marshall came out of this book, 'On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill' By Lt. Col. Dave Grossman.
It looks at what it takes to enable a normal human to kill, and is quite eyeopener. PBI indeed.

 

[Gollevainen]

The standart ammo load for finnish soldiers is 90 round (Three magazines). Some very brilliant (Or least I've been told he was brilliant) man has counted, based on the fightings in the 1944 when Soviet tryed to broke trough (biggest battle in this side of the world!!) that 90 rounds is sufficient enough. Now someone of might think this madness, but I personally doesen't.

Like already said in this thread, The US army had to use 10 000 rounds per one kill in Vietnam. We have no such a resources (And it was made quite clear to us in the armydays) so we have to do it otherways. Frankly I'm bit confusing why big proffesional armies aren't doing the same. The key is the "quality over quantity" which in this case means better shooting and almoust complete neglement of the rapid fire mode. It's in fact quite self-driving thing. You give 90 rounds to each soldiers, and in most cases those guys realizes that, "gee, perhaps we shouldn't start playing rock 'n roll everytime Rodger hears something in the bushes...":ar15

Ofcourse all these calculations are purely theoretical, It was propaply the same guy who counted the calores of the standart finnish army bread (hard to explain, but imagine rock hard bread without any taste) and that it should be enough even in extreme conditions so quess what happens when you complain that you are hungry?? "Listen son, according to these statistics, you just cannot be hungry...SO GET FUK BACK IN THE LINE!!!!!!!"

 

[Waylander]

In the Bundeswehr we already have this "every round counts" mentality and rapid fire is rather low.
But there are occasions were you just need to get as much metal into the direction of your enemy.

The best example (Aside from MOUT or heavy wood fighting) would mabye a retreat covered by own fire. Half the squad gives cover while the other retreats (Or the tunnel of love tactic) after some meters they change roles, etc. There one magazin is used fast.

And with just three magazins you are in trouble if you have to do such a retreat and go on fighting for some time.

 

[Chino]

In Singapore, we carry 8 mags of around 30 rounds each. Though I remember being told to load only 28 rounds to prevent IA.

So plus the one in the rifle that would be 9 mags.

So, in total, about 250-ish rounds of 5.56mm.

I feel this load to be quite heavy already. On top of this, every soldier in the section has some other extra load to bear. Some would carry LAW tubes, I sometimes carried an ancient 14kg PRC-77 radio set. The M203 grenadiers would have to carry 40mm rounds on top of their 5.56mm ammo load. The SAW gunners have a heavier weapon.

And it is not uncommon for everyone to help carry extra 40mm rounds or SAW magazines.

 

[Chino]

I have Beta Mag for my AR-15A3. It does weigh a lot but carrying it plus two addtional Beta Mag's, plus water and other gear would be pretty tolerable unless I had to run at a dead sprint for a long period.

Are you law enforcement or military, if I may ask?

 

[Tasman]

I have Beta Mag for my AR-15A3. It does weigh a lot but carrying it plus two addtional Beta Mag's, plus water and other gear would be pretty tolerable unless I had to run at a dead sprint for a long period.

Thats just my opinion.

The following link describes this mag:

http://www.uws.com/CMAG/HomePage.html

According to the link the mag was:

Successfully tested in combat during Desert Storm where it performed flawlessly under the most rigorous conditions.

Does anyone know which units carried out these tests?

I can see the benefit of the Beta C-MAG for a weapon that is carried in a vehicle or for short distances on foot, but I would have thought that it would make the rifle too heavy for any long distance work. I also wonder whether the weight and shape of the mag with 100 rounds on board effects the balance of the weapon. What has been your experience with this? Could you also comment on how bulky the storage pouches for the spare mags are?

Certainly, if it does not spoil the balance of a weapon and it is reliable, the combination you describe, with 300 rounds of ammo all up, would provide a lot of firepower.

Cheers

 

[Rich]

I wouldn't go into combat with anything less then 500 rnds on me. Thats the beauty of the 5.56mm system, the fact you can carry a bushel basket full of bullets. I work the streets of one of Americas biggest and most violent cities and I always run into coppers who wont carry spare magazines for their handguns, or at most one. We had one of our guys get killed by a sniper once and in the fire fight that followed we all ran out of ammo, we had to send guys back to the station to get more.

I carry two guns, 6 spare magazines, and always have 4 extra boxes of ammo available. I only have to learn a lesson once.

Those Rangers and Delta in Somalia probably survived because they loaded up with a ton of ammo before going out, even stripping other gear to make room for more bullets. You can never have to much ammo or guns. And you can never have to much training in how to use them.

 

[Chino]

The C-mag does work under most conditions, I suppose...

There's a video of some lucky guy firing off a whole C-mag on a Singapore-made Ultimax-100 on Youtube.

 

[eckherl]

I wouldn't go into combat with anything less then 500 rnds on me. Thats the beauty of the 5.56mm system, the fact you can carry a bushel basket full of bullets. I work the streets of one of Americas biggest and most violent cities and I always run into coppers who wont carry spare magazines for their handguns, or at most one. We had one of our guys get killed by a sniper once and in the fire fight that followed we all ran out of ammo, we had to send guys back to the station to get more.

I carry two guns, 6 spare magazines, and always have 4 extra boxes of ammo available. I only have to learn a lesson once.

Those Rangers and Delta in Somalia probably survived because they loaded up with a ton of ammo before going out, even stripping other gear to make room for more bullets. You can never have to much ammo or guns. And you can never have to much training in how to use them.

You are going to carry 500 rds of small arms ammo on top of everything else humping up and down hills and ravines, what are you, recon, LRRPs. You are hard core Rich.:ar15

 

[Waylander]

What does the normal US equipment weights?
I mean ammo, clothes, food,... everything except the rifle.

 

[eckherl]

What does the normal US equipment weights?
I mean ammo, clothes, food,... everything except the rifle.

You are looking at around 40 - 45 lbs minus weapon, that going light, if they decide to carry the old trusty ruck sack then you can add a additional 30 - 40 lbs.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

You are looking at around 40 - 45 lbs minus weapon, that going light, if they decide to carry the old trusty ruck sack then you can add a additional 30 - 40 lbs.

I cannot tell you how painful it was marching with a full sack. Had trouble walking for 2 days after the 13km full gear march at the end of my SQ. Good thing I don't have to do anymore of that though, quit the reserves in December.

 

[eckherl]

I cannot tell you how painful it was marching with a full sack. Had trouble walking for 2 days after the 13km full gear march at the end of my SQ. Good thing I don't have to do anymore of that though, quit the reserves in December.

Some folks just do not realize how difficult this can be, especially forced road marches in combat boots. The older I get the more I can feel it in my knees and hips.

 

[Waylander]

Jup, every kilo is important.
If I look back at one march during basic training with 25kg equipment + weapon and 28km in bad ass weather with half the march on roads and some funny fire fights in it I could puke again.

Man was I lucky to join armored corps.

 

[rickshaw]

When I was a digger, we used the L1a1. I used to carry about 60-100lbs all up. 120rds, 3-4 grenades, a claymore or more, plus water (usually about 4-6 water bottles, plus a bladder), rations (usually three or more days) and the absolute minimum of personal gear (change of socks, underwear and a spare set of greens, etc), bayonet, machete, etc.. When the F88 came along, the total amount of weight didn't substantially drop, the proportions changed, thats all.

 

[Waylander]

How do you reach 30-50kg with this amount of equipment?
Sounds very high with just the absolute minimum of personal gear.

And you got a machete?
I'm jealous!

 

[rickshaw]

How do you reach 30-50kg with this amount of equipment?
Sounds very high with just the absolute minimum of personal gear.

Ammunition for person and section weapons, Claymores, water and rations were the heaviest items. By volume, the bulkiest items were the sleeping bag and houji (shelter-half).

And you got a machete?
I'm jealous!

I came in just after Vietnam had ended. Machettes were still issued. Truth be told, I usually didn't wear mine as I couldn't see the need for it. I used to carry an extra bayonet, instead for use as a utility/fighting knife. I also had a meathook and 20 metres of rope.

 

[Tasman]

I came in just after Vietnam had ended. Machettes were still issued. Truth be told, I usually didn't wear mine as I couldn't see the need for it. I used to carry an extra bayonet, instead for use as a utility/fighting knife. I also had a meathook and 20 metres of rope.

With all that gear I wouldn't have liked to have run into you on a dark night rickshaw! There's just something about a meathook that sends shivers down my spine.

Cheers

 

[rickshaw]

With all that gear I wouldn't have liked to have run into you on a dark night rickshaw! There's just something about a meathook that sends shivers down my spine.

Cheers

Never had much of a chance to use it. It was for searching bodies. However, we always tried to play as "real" as we could. You throw the meathook, just beyond the body and you pull it back onto it and let it snag it. If they move or make a noise when they feel the hook, they aren't dead. If they don't, you flip them over and make sure there are no surprises underneath. It was a trick the Oz soldiers first learnt in New Guinea. It saves lifes.