So what's new with Chinese Missiles?

[Red aRRow]

This is a good development as far as Chinese technology is concerned. I think that the anti-satellite warhead was probably launched from a KT-2 SLV.

And please refrain from making condescending remarks in this thread....this goes particularly for Francois, powerslavenegi and Rish.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

U.S. is walking a thin line on this issue. On one hand they wish to condemn the tests, while avoiding the charge of hypocrisy. They have a valid concern since they operate the largest military satillite network in the world which would provide them a distinct advantage over any opposing force in a conflict. The only surprise for me here is that China choose to test their anti-satillite arsenal when Sino-American military relationship is warming up.

So far Beijing is keeping its mouth shut on the subject. Perhaps they hope the whole thing will blow over after some time.

 

[kyakko]

U.S. is walking a thin line on this issue. On one hand they wish to condemn the tests, while avoiding the charge of hypocrisy. They have a valid concern since they operate the largest military satillite network in the world which would provide them a distinct advantage over any opposing force in a conflict. The only surprise for me here is that China choose to test their anti-satillite arsenal when Sino-American military relationship is warming up.

So far Beijing is keeping its mouth shut on the subject. Perhaps they hope the whole thing will blow over after some time.

i'd like to know more about the treaty or whatever it is that only americans have sole right to having astats. is it an agreement thought up by the u.n. or any other international organization? or just something we decided to self impose?

 

[huhu]

You're probably thinking about Bush's new space policy which was released late last year. There is no treaty or law regarding space based weapons because the US DoD doesn't want or need one atm.

Quote from the policy:

For 50 years, the U.S. has led the world in space exploration, developing “a solid civil, commercial, and national security space foundation,” the document notes.


“Space has become a place that is increasingly used by a host of nations, consortia, businesses, and entrepreneurs,” the space policy states. “In this new century, those who effectively utilize space will enjoy added prosperity and security and will hold a substantial advantage over those who do not.”


Additionally, the Bush space policy is designed to “ensure that space capabilities are available in time to further U.S. national security, homeland security, and foreign policy objectives.” Moreover, a fundamental goal of the policy is to “enable unhindered U.S. operations in and through space to defend our interests there.”


The policy calls upon the Secretary of Defense to “develop capabilities, plans, and options to ensure freedom of action in space, and, if directed, deny such freedom of action to adversaries.”

Basically it says that the US has the right to put weapons in space and prevent anyone else from doing the same.

 

[powerslavenegi]

And please refrain from making condescending remarks in this thread....this goes particularly for Francois, powerslavenegi and Rish.

That was not a condescending remark I have facts to back my claim and here is the " Declaration of Legal Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space "
which states

The General Assembly, ........


4. The activities of States in the exploration and use of outer space shall be carried on in accordance with international law, including the Charter of the United Nations, in the interest of maintaining international peace and security and promoting international co-operation and understanding.


6. In the exploration and use of outer space, States shall be guided by the principle of co- operation and mutual assistance and shall conduct all their activities in outer space with due regard for the corresponding interests of other States. If a State has reason to believe that an outer space activity or experiment planned by it or its nationals would cause potentially harmful interference with activities of other States in the peaceful exploration and use of outer space, it shall undertake appropriate international consultations before proceeding with any such activity or experiment. A State which has reason to believe that an outer space activity or experiment planned by another State would cause potentially harmful interference with activities in the peaceful exploration and use of outer space may request consultation concerning the activity or experiment.


8. Each State which launches or procures the launching of an object into outer space, and each State from whose territory or facility an object is launched, is internationally liable for damage to a foreign State or to its natural or juridical persons by such object or its component parts on the earth, in air space, or in outer space.

Questions arise did the PRC inform the international community about the nature of the test.
specially when the PRC has ratified "The Convention on International Liability for Damage Causes by Space Objects (the "Liability Convention") ( been ratified by 83 States and signed by 25 others. ')

Surprisingly PRC also voted in the favour of the A/RES/59/065 2004 Prevention of an arms race in outer space .

I was only trying to impress upon the fact that the recent test would trigger a arms race in space and would cause a major problem for commercial satellites for tests like these end up creating a lot of debris that renders a large area unsuitable for parking a satellite.

By the way Red arrow if you are keen on using your mod powers to ensure a unbiased and neutral discussion then there are threads on DF talk that need serious attention you know where to look for em in DT.

 

[huhu]

Questions arise did the PRC inform the international community about the nature of the test.
specially when the PRC has ratified "The Convention on International Liability for Damage Causes by Space Objects (the "Liability Convention") ( been ratified by 83 States and signed by 25 others. ')

Surprisingly PRC also voted in the favour of the A/RES/59/065 2004 Prevention of an arms race in outer space .

I was only trying to impress upon the fact that the recent test would trigger a arms race in space and would cause a major problem for commercial satellites for tests like these end up creating a lot of debris that renders a large area unsuitable for parking a satellite.

The PRC has a history of pushing for an international space arms treaty as a reaction to continued US testing and usage of space based and ASAT weapons, this is not new.

There is speculation that the PRC finally decided to demonstrate its own capability in order to push the US to the negotiating table. They may have come to this decision after Bush's provocative Space Policy last year.

It is doubtful that such a strategy (to get the US to negotiate) would work since the US is so far ahead and so dependent upon satellites for their military and weaponry.

 

[goldenpanda]

They couldn't even destroy us once. The problem with all your ICBMs being liquid fueled is that you can only keep a few of them fueled up at any one time, and even that aint going to help your if we Yanks decide to strike the Chinese first. Without question we have the capability to take our their offensive strategic arsenal with a first strike. A Yank Ohio class is a black hole in the water and their Trident D-5 missiles have the necessary CEP for ICBM sights.

All this is slowly changing. Theres no doubt the Chinese will be introducing better ICBMs, SLBMS, and SSBNs. But it will take decades to develop a first world nuclear capability. Hopefully by then we will have gotten rid of these damned things, tho I doubt it.

One thing that will never change, should the Chinese leadership ever shoot their missiles off at us, is that we would annihilate them as a people. From east to west, north to south, we would turn every inch of China into a radioactive wasteland. Frankly it surprises me when I hear my fellow Yanks speak in fear of China's strategic nuclear capability. I spent four years of my life around Americas arsenal and believe me when I say it is fearsome.

I'm glad to see you take so much pleasure annihilating another people. Keep gloating and give us a reason to build more weapons (not at all hard to us), perhaps shares a few with others (not hard to find people not liking you), so we can annihilate you back.

 

[Schumacher]

A question here.
This latest PLA test seems to only threaten LEO sats & not those geostationary ones higher up. What are their respective importance to the US forces ?
Missiles targeting, GPS etc are done by the GEO sats & stuffs like searching for mobile BM are done by the LEO, right ?

 

[Rich]

I'm glad to see you take so much pleasure annihilating another people. Keep gloating and give us a reason to build more weapons (not at all hard to us), perhaps shares a few with others (not hard to find people not liking you), so we can annihilate you back.

In case anyone notices I'm not noticing this guy anymore its because I put him on ignore.

 

[Firehorse]

China Is Adding to Its Lethal Arsenal
The most interesting is the alleged

a new series of Chinese ballistic missiles appear to be aimed directly at the U.S. Navy.
"China is developing an anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) based on a variant of the CSS-5 medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) as a component of its anti-access strategy. The missile has a range in excess of 1,500 km and, when incorporated into a sophisticated command and control system, is a key component of China's anti-access strategy to provide the PLA the capability to attack ships at sea, including aircraft carriers, from great distances.
"This capability would have particular significance, as it would provide China with preemptive and coercive options in a regional crisis."
The Chinese missile warheads — according to the Defense Department report — are now equipped with advanced radars that can detect and home in on warships as they descend from space.

IMO, for all intents and purposes, using IRBMs is the most economical way to target a blue water navy- given the sizes of W.Pacific & Indian Oceans.
http://www.shaps.hawaii.edu/images/2006/cmp-2006-fig6_1093x673.png

The range shown may be inaccurate- I suspect that it covers more area, if the asessment below is true.-

Starting in 1987 China started deploying the DF-21 (CSS-5), a new solid-fuel missile derived from the JL-1 submarine launched ballistic missile (SLBM). In its latest report on the PLA the Pentagon notes that 34 to 38 transporter-erector-launchers (TELs) are ready to fire between 40 to 50 DF-21 missiles. The DF-21 is now reported to come in an initial variant with a range of 1,770+km to 2,150km, and the DF-21A (CSS-5 Mod 2), with a range of 2,500km. The DF-21 can be armed with nuclear or non-nuclear warheads. ..
The DF-21 also provided the basis for the four-stage KT-1 mobile solid fuel space launch vehicle, which in turn, forms the basis for the SC-19 direct-ascent anti-satellite (ASAT) missile. A more capable ASAT missile may be derived from the KT-2, which Chinese sources at the 2002 Zhuhai Airshow stated was based on the DF-31 ICBM. The massive debris from the January 11 satellite destruction has forced the U.S. to move one satellite[2], and possibly, the International Space Station, to avoid destruction. The threat from the Chinese satellite debris will exist for about a decade to come. ..
China’s new ASBMs pose a strategic as well as a tactical challenge to U.S. forces in Asia. At present the U.S. does not have anti-missile capabilities to defend large U.S. ships against this threat, so vulnerable targets, most importantly aircraft carriers, will have to remain out of missile range in order to survive. This factor will further limit the effectiveness of their already range-challenged F/A-18E/F fighter bombers. U.S. Aegis cruisers and destroyers now being outfitted with new SM-3 interceptors with upgraded radar and processing capabilities may in the future be configured to deal with this threat, but if so, they may not be available for other missions, like protecting people. The fact is that no anti-missile system is going to come close to providing reliable defense. For China, ASBMs provide a means for saturating U.S. ships with missiles. While ASBMs are bearing down from above, their attack can be coordinated with waves of submarine, air and ship-launched anti-ship cruise missiles. ..
But from one missile, the DF-21, China has devised new versions that can target U.S. aircraft carriers and the space information system essential to their successful employment. Additional missiles are now being developed for both missions. Should the U.S. 7th Fleet’s sole aircraft carrier based in Japan be neutralized by Chinese missiles, it may be weeks before another can arrive to face the same Chinese missile gauntlet. http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.165/pub_detail.asp

 

[Firehorse]

..space and missile analyst John Pike has also surmised ..that the test also demonstrates a theoretical capability to intercept Chinese submarine launched ballistic missiles using the SM-3.

Perhaps the USN hopes to be able to protect CTFs with SM-3 against BMs- now all pieces are falling into place!

 

[Cruelio.com]

Hmm, this hits a tough spot in my mind. Chinese with nuclear capabilities, what good could that bring

 

[PullerRommel]

It would bring an effective dterrent to anyone trying encroach or bully the Chinese (Why? I have no idea?)