So what's new with Chinese Missiles?

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highways

New Member
I was pretty intrigued a year or two ago when I opened up the 2000 almanac and read that the top news story of 1999 was, "Chinese Steal Plans to US's Most Miniturized Nuclear Warhead". Ofcourse this was refering to the events of the Los Alamos espionage affair. To sum things up- the Chinese gained the plans to the US's most advanced warhead design. If reproduced, this would allow 15 warheads to be fitted to one ICBM. At that time, Chinese technology could only pack in 3 warheads per ICBM. And also at that time their missiles could reach any part of the West Coast, essentially. Well, we are now 8 years beyond that article and I would pragmatically assume that the Chinese have attempted to do something with their golden egg taken from the Los Alamos laboratories. Also, I believe that the two current wars America is engaged in are in fact a reinstitution of the Cold War doctrines, with a strong leaning towards denying China access to critical energy reserves. But that is another matter all together.

So the question is- does anyone know of the current state of Chinese missile developement- particularly as it relates to the stolen American blueprints? Certainly, current and arguably 'frantic' missle defense programs seem to suggest that the US is well aware of the danger. But how much danger are we in? I would appreciate anyone's insight on this largely undiscussed subject.
 
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EnigmaNZ

New Member
I remember that, you might find these interesting reading as well. The clinton administration did a lot to improve chinese strategic missile systems. I recall motorola being given clearance, or where they told, to help the chinese with the technology involved with packing and accurately releasing multiple warheads, oops, satelites from a common bus. Another company, was it loral, did the same with navigation tech that allowed the missile, oops, launcher to accurately know it's location so it could release its payload to achieve a better CEP, oops, satelite placement.

"The Chinese military obtained encrypted radiation hardened chips from Loral, post-boost vehicle technology from Lockheed, telemetry systems from Motorola and nose cone technology from Hughes."

"The Chinese army succeeded in obtaining a wide range of U.S. missile technology from the Clinton administration, including satellite control facilities, satellite image processing facilities, missile nose cone design, multiple warhead delivery systems, guidance systems, kick-motor designs and computer systems for ground and space control."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/missile/keystories.htm

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/14/143258.shtml

http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1998/040798c.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Chinese_espionage_against_the_U.S.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/29/25139.shtml
 
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Francois

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Now you can pray.
Because when the two words chinese and nuclear are put together, your worse fears can appear any second.
 
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Khairul Alam

New Member
highways said:
So the question is- does anyone know of the current state of Chinese missile developement- particularly as it relates to the stolen American blueprints? Certainly, current and arguably 'frantic' missle defense programs seem to suggest that the US is well aware of the danger. But how much danger are we in? I would appreciate anyone's insight on this largely undiscussed subject.
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Read this article. Everything about the missiles and many more.
http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.65/pub_detail.asp
 
Tasman

Tasman

Ship Watcher
Verified Defense Pro
Rich said:
The Chinese would actually incur far fewer casualties if they shot off their own nukes at their own cities, rather then shooting them off at us.
Heres a nightmare for them to chew on. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/index.html
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That's a very interesting link Rich. Should be compulsory reading for any world leader contemplating a nuclear strike against the USA, US forces or US allies! I imagine the Chinese government would be well aware of the capabilities described.

Cheers
 
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huhu

Banned Member
Probably why China hasn't bothered to significantly expand its stock of ICBM's. There's just no point of getting into a nuclear pissing contest with the USA since it will only degenerate into comparing how many times you could destroy each other.
 
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Francois

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
huhu said:
Probably why China hasn't bothered to significantly expand its stock of ICBM's. There's just no point of getting into a nuclear pissing contest with the USA since it will only degenerate into comparing how many times you could destroy each other.
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Actually, there are not a single sign that PLA's arsenal is not growing.
 
H

huhu

Banned Member
Francois said:
Actually, there are not a single sign that PLA's arsenal is not growing.
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Honestly, compared with the US arsenal, China has a pitiful missile force. Total number of warheads are in the hundreds but of those only a handful are ICBMs (likely >50). The survivability of the rest of its land based missile forces (SRBM/IRBM) is questionable under determined assault. China's SSBN fleet is tiny, comprised of 4 boats, 3 of which are of the obsolete and highly unreliable Type 092 (Xia) class.

In order to improve its nuclear deterrence, China has begun to slowly modernize its ballistic missile forces and increase the number of capable systems it has at its disposal. However, there are no signs of any intention to match warhead with warhead like the Soviets and Americans did during the Cold War.
 
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Rich

Member
They couldn't even destroy us once. The problem with all your ICBMs being liquid fueled is that you can only keep a few of them fueled up at any one time, and even that aint going to help your if we Yanks decide to strike the Chinese first. Without question we have the capability to take our their offensive strategic arsenal with a first strike. A Yank Ohio class is a black hole in the water and their Trident D-5 missiles have the necessary CEP for ICBM sights.

All this is slowly changing. Theres no doubt the Chinese will be introducing better ICBMs, SLBMS, and SSBNs. But it will take decades to develop a first world nuclear capability. Hopefully by then we will have gotten rid of these damned things, tho I doubt it.

One thing that will never change, should the Chinese leadership ever shoot their missiles off at us, is that we would annihilate them as a people. From east to west, north to south, we would turn every inch of China into a radioactive wasteland. Frankly it surprises me when I hear my fellow Yanks speak in fear of China's strategic nuclear capability. I spent four years of my life around Americas arsenal and believe me when I say it is fearsome.
 
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powerslavenegi

New Member
Rich said:
They couldn't even destroy us once. The problem with all your ICBMs being liquid fueled is that you can only keep a few of them fueled up at any one time, and even that aint going to help your if we Yanks decide to strike the Chinese first. Without question we have the capability to take our their offensive strategic arsenal with a first strike. A Yank Ohio class is a black hole in the water and their Trident D-5 missiles have the necessary CEP for ICBM sights.
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DF-31 and DF-41 are solid fueled and with MIRV capability,and while the former is operational and being mass produced the latter is a 12000Km BM.their SLBM programme too is progressing at a decent pace while they already are in possesion of 2-3000Km JL-1's their navy would soon have the JL-2 with MIRV cap of delivering 3 warheads to a distance of 8000Km(solid fueled again).


One thing that will never change, should the Chinese leadership ever shoot their missiles off at us, is that we would annihilate them as a people. From east to west, north to south, we would turn every inch of China into a radioactive wasteland.
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Mate once one has acces to minimum credible nuclear deterant ,he would be able to reap benifits of the first use option.Imho in a nuclear world the one who would emerge victorious :)shudder ) would be the one who presses the trigger first.

In a Hypothetical China v/s US N-standoff there wont be any one left standing to proclaim victory.
 
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huhu

Banned Member
China's Nuclear doctrine follows a no-first-use policy, probably in recognition that it barely possesses credible deterrence to retaliate right now. (I think this is contrary to US nuclear doctrine)
In a Hypothetical China v/s US N-standoff there wont be any one left standing to proclaim victory.
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As it stands the US would probably "win" in that there would still be a few people left alive in America after an all out nuclear war with China.
 
F

Francois

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Please keep politics out of it as per DT rules.
 
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merocaine

New Member
Thats twice in the last year they've demonstrated the ability to knockout satellites , how dependent are US carrier groups on sat communications/ survaliance.

China policy !! their track record in abiding with international policies or treaties is nothing to talk about
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They usually stick with in the letter of the law, usually.
 
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