Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

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aaaditya

New Member
hey guys, here is an interesting news, it seems that india and russia have set up joint venture facilities for the life cycle support for russian made warships of the indian navy and these support capabilities can be offered to foreign navies also.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=7919

A joint venture floated to provide life cycle product support services for the large number of Russian-built Indian Navy vessels could extend its activities to other Southeast Asians nations and even China if their governments agree.


"The navies of Malaysia, Indonesia and Myanmar operate a fair number of Russian-built vessels and we could extend our services to them through the repair facilities we have created in Goa, Mumbai and Vishakhapatnam," Rosoboronservice Inda managing director Commander (retd) V.G. Jayaprakasan told reporters here Thursday.

"We could even offer our services to China subject to clearance from the concerned governments," he added.

Rosoboronservice India, established in April 2005 through a Russian government decree, has already done pioneering work in refurbishing the Indian Navy's Talwar class frigates, Kilo class submarines and Kamov KA-31 helicopters, is supplying 1,500 tonnes of special steel for the indigenous aircraft carrier whose construction is to begin later this year, and has offered to supply Rs.600 million worth of spares "at extremely competitive rates", Jayaprakasan stated.

If the tender is accepted, the size of the contract could eventually rise to Rs.10 billion, he said of the company, which has just received an interest-free $20 million loan from its parent Rosoboronexport toward working capital and creation of infrastructure.

The joint venture brings together eight Russian original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) in areas like propulsion, armaments, fire control and navigation systems, and radars.

Among its partners are the Baltitsky Zavod yard, the builder of the Talwar class frigates, the Midsize Shipbuilding Plant where three follow-on ships of the Talwar class that India has ordered are to be built, and the Zvezdochka yard that undertakes repair and refit of the Kilo class submarines, helicopter maker Kamov and aircraft manufacturer Illyushin.

Detailing the projects undertaken by the venture, Jayaprakasan said two frequency converters worth Rs.20 million that had failed on board the Talwar class vessels after the guarantee period had expired were replaced free of cost.

This apart, the company had purchased industrial premises in Goa for establishing a full-fledged KA-31 helicopter service station.

"Three specialists from Kamov are scheduled to arrive in Goa in January (2007) to finalise the layout of the service centre. Also, specialists have been identified for deputation to India on long-term assignment for undertaking maintenance of the helicopters," he added.

In addition critical spares worth Rs.40 million have been stocked at Goa to facilitate quick repairs and to minimize down time.

Besides this, some guarantee repairs have also been carried out on the navy's IL-38 maritime reconnaissance aircraft.

Jayaprakasan said to overcome bottlenecks in the procurement of spares, the Russian government, through its Federal Service on Military Technical Cooperation (FSMTC), had urged the Indian government to an accord Proprietary Article Certificate (PAC) to Rosoboronservice for the products of its founder members.

"This would greatly streamline the procurement process," the official maintained.
 

Big-E

Banned Member
"We could even offer our services to China subject to clearance from the concerned governments," he added.
Gwadar is already going to have you between a rock and a hard place. If you want even more PLAN subs operating in YOUR ocean than those at Gwadar you will just compound the problem.
 

DragonKing786

New Member
Gwadar is already going to have you between a rock and a hard place. If you want even more PLAN subs operating in YOUR ocean than those at Gwadar you will just compound the problem.
Very true., and remember China wants to protect it's oil assets., I believe they signed a contract for $ 12 Billion dollars with Iran (last week), Gwadar just brings iran closer to be monitored by China., aswell as the GCC oil states.

I think thier's an old saying., about "why travel an extra mile., if you can get it right here" something like that., so I don't think China will wants to be in Indian ports. And Gwadar puts China deadly close to GCC.
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys,great news ,the production line of the scorpene submarines is expected to be operational from january 2007.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.idrw.org/index.php?categoryid=1&p2_articleid=592

After almost two decades, India is once again set to build submarines indigenously at the Mazgaon dock in Mumbai as the production line for six killer Scorpene submarines is expected to be operational by January. The dock is gearing up for the task. But the date for the formal steel cutting function is yet to be decided. In any way it will happen in January, a navy official told Deccan Herald. Over the last one year, the MDL infrastructure has been upgraded to handle the construction of the submarine along with personnel training. Now the fabrication of the submarine hull will begin. The six submarines will be delivered, one per year, between 2012 and 2017, said an official. The technology is coming from two French companies. While Armaris is transferring the basic technology and construction design, MBDA is providing the sea-skimming Exocet missiles. Construction of the six French submarines will be the first step for the Navy's long cherished ambition of having a fully functional indigenous production line for submarine. This has remained a dream once the construction of two German HDW submarines at MDL ran into time and cost overrun.In the mid-1980s, the Navy decided to set up a submarine production line. But after making two diesel-electric submarines INS Shalki and INS Shankul both have the type 209 design offered by the German company HDW the government shut down the facilities as the indigenous production line taxed the capability of Mazgaon dock to the extreme. Other 14 existing operational naval submarines two Vela class ( British Foxtrot), two Shishumar class (German HDW) and 10 Sindhughosh class (Russian Kilo) submarines are imported.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
hey guys,great news ,the production line of the scorpene submarines is expected to be operational from january 2007.

here check out this link and article:

http://www.idrw.org/index.php?categoryid=1&p2_articleid=592

... Other 14 existing operational naval submarines two Vela class ( British Foxtrot), two Shishumar class (German HDW) and 10 Sindhughosh class (Russian Kilo) submarines are imported.
Nice to see an article by someone with access to information so secret that it's never before been revealed, i.e. the existence of this formerly unknown British submarine. :D
 

contedicavour

New Member
Somebody mixed up British Oberons and Russian Foxtrots I guess ;) India never had Oberons though right ? Or any other ex British sub ?

Seriously, there are only 2 remaining Type 209 HDW subs in service ? Whatever happened to the other 2 ?

cheers
 

aaaditya

New Member
Somebody mixed up British Oberons and Russian Foxtrots I guess ;) India never had Oberons though right ? Or any other ex British sub ?

Seriously, there are only 2 remaining Type 209 HDW subs in service ? Whatever happened to the other 2 ?

cheers
india's original choice was the british submaines ,however their high costs and the liberal terms offered by the russians for their foxtrot class swung the indian navy's decision in russia's favour.
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys,check out this link and article ,it contains some information on the indo-russian indra 2007 joint naval excercises.

here is the link and article:

http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=150486

Indo-Russian naval war games—”INDRA-2007”—is scheduled to be held off Russia's Pacific coast in early 2007. This will be the third such exercise since 2003. According to senior Naval officers, ``The basic idea is to create inter-operability and practise anti-submarine and anti-aircraft warfare, and it is a progressive process of learning from each other.''
The exercises will include surface firing, air defense and anti-submarine warfare manoeuvres and a debriefing. Also, “the exercises would also include operations relating to maintaining maritime order in the seas and counter piracy, terrorism, anti-gun running and drug smuggling.

The exercises are expected to give a new dimension to the relationship between the armed forces of the two countries towards building mutual trust and better understanding of each other, an Indian Navy spokesperson said.

A squadron of Russian warships and one nuclear submarine of the Russian Pacific Fleet are expected to participate in it.
Though INS Mumbai, INS Gomati, INS Rajput, INS Kora and INS Khulish took part in the drill from Indian side during the last exercises, the ships participating for the forthcoming exercises have not been finalised.
“The end of the Cold War resulted in a decline, rather a near total absence of the Russian naval presence in the Indian Ocean. It took almost a decade for the Russian Navy to visit the Indian Ocean in 2001. A small but a powerful contingent of naval ships comprising anti-submarine ships Admiral Vinogradov and Admiral Pantellev, escorted by the tanker Vladimir Kilechitsky paid a visit to Mumbai that year, “ pointed out Vijay Sakhuja, senior fellow, Observer Research foundation.
It was Russian defence minister Sergei Ivanov who made the proposal for joint naval exercises in 2002 and New Delhi accepted the offer.
The current deployment further reinforces the commonality of Russian and Indian interests in the Indian Ocean. “INDRA 2005 provided an opportunity for both militaries, particularly the navy, to test out inter-operability, notwithstanding the fact that there is a strong commonality in equipment exploitation doctrines,” added Sakhuja. INDRA 2007 will also showcase Russian military hardware and provide an opportunity to the Indian Navy to further assess the efficacy of weapons such as anti-submarine missiles, missile-torpedoes and modern anti-aircraft missiles as also the Project 09710 “Samara” class submarine.
 

aaaditya

New Member
the samara class submarine also participated in indra2005,by the way does anyone know if samara is a new russian nuclear attack submarine project or is it the improved akula?
 

contedicavour

New Member
the samara class submarine also participated in indra2005,by the way does anyone know if samara is a new russian nuclear attack submarine project or is it the improved akula?
... and by the way does anyone have news on the ATV SSN programme of the Indian Navy ? Even bharat-rakshak site doesn't have anything new on that.

cheers
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys,check out this interesting news article posted in the defence news:

Posted 01/02/07 12:33
Indian Navy Is Taking Quest for New Frigates Abroad
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI

Frustrated by delays in Indian shipyards’ attempts to build seven modern frigates, the country’s Navy is looking for foreign help.

In mid-November, Navy officials issued a request for information to nine shipyards in France, Italy, Russia, South Korea, Spain and the United States, seeking a roughly $8 billion deal to buy one frigate and obtain licenses to produce six more in India.

The Indian yards that would build the new frigates include state-owned Mazagon Docks in Mumbai and Garden Reach Shipbuilders in Kolkata.
The officials, who were expecting preliminary responses by year’s end, intend to issue formal requests for proposals to a short list of shipyards by mid-2007. A contract could be signed by 2009, a Defence Ministry official said.

An Indian Navy official said the frigates could resemble the Italo-French Horizon Common New Generation Frigate, an air warfare ship.

Officials said the ships, intended to operate far from home for long periods, would be armed with the Indo-Israeli Barak-2 air defense system, the Indo-Russian BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, Advanced Light Helicopters, Kamov anti-submarine helicopters, rotary-wing unmanned aerial vehicles, 3-D multimode surveillance radar, and advanced weapon and navigational controls. The ships will become the first Indian frigates to be directly connected with a dedicated military satellite.

The proposed purchase is part of the Navy’s Project 17-A shipbuilding program, launched in 1997 and itself a continuation of Project 17, which acquired Russian Krivak-class frigates jointly designed by the Navy’s Naval Design Bureau and Russia’s Severnoye Project Design Bureau.
In 1997, India agreed to buy three stealth frigates for $1 billion: INS Talwar, commissioned in 2002; Trishul, 2003; and Tabar, 2004. Last July, India agreed to buy three more stealth frigates for $996 million apiece from Yantar Shipyard in Kaliningrad, to be delivered in 2010-11.


8 billion dollars for 7 frigates seems to be pretty steep,these will supplement the 3 p17a class of stealth frigates,3+3 project 1135.6 krivack class of stealth frigates and the 3 brahmaputra class of non stealth frigates.taking the total number of frigates in the indian navy to 19 of which atleast 16 would incorporate stealth technology to some extent.
 

contedicavour

New Member
hey guys,check out this interesting news article posted in the defence news:

Posted 01/02/07 12:33
Indian Navy Is Taking Quest for New Frigates Abroad
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI

Frustrated by delays in Indian shipyards’ attempts to build seven modern frigates, the country’s Navy is looking for foreign help.

In mid-November, Navy officials issued a request for information to nine shipyards in France, Italy, Russia, South Korea, Spain and the United States, seeking a roughly $8 billion deal to buy one frigate and obtain licenses to produce six more in India.

The Indian yards that would build the new frigates include state-owned Mazagon Docks in Mumbai and Garden Reach Shipbuilders in Kolkata.
The officials, who were expecting preliminary responses by year’s end, intend to issue formal requests for proposals to a short list of shipyards by mid-2007. A contract could be signed by 2009, a Defence Ministry official said.

An Indian Navy official said the frigates could resemble the Italo-French Horizon Common New Generation Frigate, an air warfare ship.

Officials said the ships, intended to operate far from home for long periods, would be armed with the Indo-Israeli Barak-2 air defense system, the Indo-Russian BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, Advanced Light Helicopters, Kamov anti-submarine helicopters, rotary-wing unmanned aerial vehicles, 3-D multimode surveillance radar, and advanced weapon and navigational controls. The ships will become the first Indian frigates to be directly connected with a dedicated military satellite.

The proposed purchase is part of the Navy’s Project 17-A shipbuilding program, launched in 1997 and itself a continuation of Project 17, which acquired Russian Krivak-class frigates jointly designed by the Navy’s Naval Design Bureau and Russia’s Severnoye Project Design Bureau.
In 1997, India agreed to buy three stealth frigates for $1 billion: INS Talwar, commissioned in 2002; Trishul, 2003; and Tabar, 2004. Last July, India agreed to buy three more stealth frigates for $996 million apiece from Yantar Shipyard in Kaliningrad, to be delivered in 2010-11.


8 billion dollars for 7 frigates seems to be pretty steep,these will supplement the 3 p17a class of stealth frigates,3+3 project 1135.6 krivack class of stealth frigates and the 3 brahmaputra class of non stealth frigates.taking the total number of frigates in the indian navy to 19 of which atleast 16 would incorporate stealth technology to some extent.
Great news for international shipbuilding industry :D
8 bn USD for 7 ships = 1.14 bn USD per ship = 870 mln Euro per ship
This happens to be price tag of the Horizon/Doria/Forbin AAW DDGs.
Though if India selects Barak 2 with Elta radars, there's no need to build ships that big (7,800 tonners)... FREMMs would be enough. Still remains to be seen however if DCN and Fincantieri are willing to build FREMMs without the precious high-margin Empar or Herakles + Sylver VLS + Aster 15/30. Especially if the perspective is of building only one in Europe.
It will be exciting to follow up on this tender :)

cheers
 

contedicavour

New Member
Btw, a quick question, when is the IN planning to retire the obsolete Kashin class destroyers ? There soon will be 3 Delhi and 3 improved Delhi DDGs, and if some of the new P17A carry longer range SAMs than Shtil or Barak-2, then no need to keep those obsolete ships* !

cheers

*I know they are only 20-25 years old, but Goa SAM is good for museums not for a growing and powerful navy like India's.
 

contedicavour

New Member
Hmm may be these new ships will replace Kashins. They are fitting Brahms on them though:rolleyes: .
Well if the new FFG are AAW, the Kashins can be downgraded from DDGs to FFGs and specialize on anti-surface / land attack roles with the powerful Brahmos.

cheers
 

kams

New Member
Well if the new FFG are AAW, the Kashins can be downgraded from DDGs to FFGs and specialize on anti-surface / land attack roles with the powerful Brahmos.

cheers
By the time these new ships arrive, Kashins will be really old. In addition there were lingering doubts that Soviets passed on used Kashins not new ones:D .
 

contedicavour

New Member
By the time these new ships arrive, Kashins will be really old. In addition there were lingering doubts that Soviets passed on used Kashins not new ones:D .
Naaah it's a joke isn't it ? They wouldn't have done that to their major export market ?? True, back in the '80s India was a bit restricted to the USSR as a source of weaponry...
You could offer Russia to take them back to supplement their rusting Black Sea Fleet :D where there still is a lonely Kashin modified with Uran SSM

cheers
 

kams

New Member
Naaah it's a joke isn't it ? They wouldn't have done that to their major export market ?? True, back in the '80s India was a bit restricted to the USSR as a source of weaponry...
You could offer Russia to take them back to supplement their rusting Black Sea Fleet :D where there still is a lonely Kashin modified with Uran SSM

cheers
No not a joke, There was an interview with IN admiral where he talked about it. I spent 45 minutes searching for the intervew..can't find it.

Actually we got Kashins at 'freindship' price(Soviet days) ..so can't complain:rolleyes: . But Admiral also said Kashins served well and continue to do so.
 

aaaditya

New Member
these are the projects for which the indian navy is likely to select foreign designs:

1)the new frigates(1 to be acquired and 6 to be built in india).

2)second submarine line(hdw and amur in running,10 to 15 may be built).

3)heavy fuel tanker(at least 2 to be acquired).

4)landing platform dock(mistral design is being studied by the grse shipyard).

5)mine counter measure vessels (8 to be built by gsl,italian ,spanish and south korean designs are being studied).

india may also acquire the latest otomelara 127 mm guns for their capital warships to replace the otomelara 76mm guns.
 

aaaditya

New Member
Great news for international shipbuilding industry :D
8 bn USD for 7 ships = 1.14 bn USD per ship = 870 mln Euro per ship
This happens to be price tag of the Horizon/Doria/Forbin AAW DDGs.
Though if India selects Barak 2 with Elta radars, there's no need to build ships that big (7,800 tonners)... FREMMs would be enough. Still remains to be seen however if DCN and Fincantieri are willing to build FREMMs without the precious high-margin Empar or Herakles + Sylver VLS + Aster 15/30. Especially if the perspective is of building only one in Europe.
It will be exciting to follow up on this tender :)

cheers
according to an earlier article the vessels are to be of 5600 ton displacement and hence i believe ,that the vessels will be of fremm class.
 
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