French Arms Sales

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Big-E

Banned Member
The issue of France's inabilty to sell Rafale has been raised recently. What is the health of the French arms industry at this point? What have they been selling since the turn of the century?
 
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turin

New Member
As for naval industry:

4+2 corvettes (Baynunah Class) to UAE - 2004
6 frigates (Project Delta) to Singapore - ? (sometime past 2000)

Other sales like the Taiwan and Saudi Arabia sales were agreed upon before 2000, so I guess you dont want to see them here.

edit:
Just noticed on Defense Industry Daily - "close to finalising" a deal worth 1,5 billion Euros concerning upgrade of 52 Mirage 2000 with India.

edit2:

2 Scorpene class SSK to Chile (year?) and Malaysia resp. (2002), workshare with Spain
6 Scorpene class SSK to India (2005) including arms package for Exocet SM-39
 
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Khairul Alam

New Member
Sales of 30 Mirage 2000-9 jets to UAE and the upgrade of another 33 Mirage 2000-5 to the 2000-9 standard.
France may also receive deals worth 15 billion euros from Saudi Arabia as consolation prize for not opting to procure the Rafaels. The deals may include acquisition of Scorpene subs, European FREMM frigates, Airbus A330-200 multirole tanker transport aircrafts, and NH90 helicopters.(From Janes Defence Weekly, 14 June 2006)
 
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DragonKing786

New Member
Guess the French don't offer slush funds., atleast they selling honorable and don't get on their knees. :eek:nfloorl:

Admin: This is the kind of comment that can cause threads to go off topic and derail. Please be cautious in your wording in future.
 
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B

Big-E

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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DragonKing786 said:
Guess the French don't offer slush funds., atleast they selling honorable and don't get on their knees. :eek:nfloorl:
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uhh.. no The French are the worst of the Western world. Have you already forgotten the Taiwan frigate deal?
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
How many times do we have to say these things?

Stay on topic.

This is about French Arms Sales.

Its not about how the french sell arms, its not about french commercial practices, its not about the EU, and its not about arms embargoes.


and please read the forum rules about "one liners". one liners may be relevant, but not when they are just an exercise in idle commentary.
 
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Capt. Picard

New Member
uhh.. no The French are the worst of the Western world. Have you already forgotten the Taiwan frigate deal?
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It is at this point that this discussion went off topic. It is clear in the US, still, that there is this inexplicable anti French bias.

The issue of France's inabilty to sell Rafale has been raised recently. What is the health of the French arms industry at this point? What have they been selling since the turn of the century?
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It is also clear that there is anti French bias in the asking of this question. So really the whole topic is a bit of a dud, IMO.
 
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Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
You hast have to look at the Eurocopter company and their sales of NH90s, Tigers and EC135 (This piece of european tech is also bought by the mighty US ;) ) to see that not everything is in bad shape.

For me it looks like the French are much more successfull when operating in european companies and not alone like seen at Euromissile, Eurocopter,...
 
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Rich

Member
Im a little surprised the Rafale hasn't sold yet. Most of all in the traditional middle east/mirage market. Is there some other dynamic at work here or is it just a question of a very good fighter available at the wrong time?
 
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turin

New Member
Capt. Picard said:
It is at this point that this discussion went off topic. It is clear in the US, still, that there is this inexplicable anti French bias.



It is also clear that there is anti French bias in the asking of this question. So really the whole topic is a bit of a dud, IMO.
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I suggest you read more careful next time, then you realise that the discussion went OT exactly one post prior with a remark that was anything but asking for an answer like that of Big-E. ;)
I tread the initial question as one asking for information and therefore I think its quite interesting since I would like to know about that as well.

Anyway...

For me it looks like the French are much more successfull when operating in european companies and not alone like seen at Euromissile, Eurocopter,...
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A pro-cooperation stance here? ;) I think they work well both ways. Their indigenous (national) systems sell quite good, also in the helicopter market. Dont forget that part of the portfolio sold with Eurocopter is made up of purely french systems as well. Not everything Eurocopter-branded was created in international cooperation, they got some heritage from french companies as well, such as the AS series of helos.
I am pointing this out only for highlighting that it is difficult so differentiate between "national" and "international" products sold by France. The amount of workshare is important here (as it is with France and Spain in case of Scorpene).

Saudi-Arabia also bought some 56 helos of the AS series (Fennec, Panther, Cougar) in their last buying spree in late summer this year.

@Rich: I guess we have to wait for further development in the case of Saudi-Arabia. Maybe they are buying Rafales now after all.
 
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B

Big-E

Banned Member
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  • #16
Francois said:
You hate french people, don't you?
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Au contraire... I have conquered many French women of Provence and also taken the time to learn the language. But the issue at hand has nothing to do with the people but the defense industry. My question to you is "What is the health of Dassault?"
 
E

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Rich said:
Im a little surprised the Rafale hasn't sold yet. Most of all in the traditional middle east/mirage market. Is there some other dynamic at work here or is it just a question of a very good fighter available at the wrong time?
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I think you are right, Rafale is a good fighter but the competition is really hot and heavy, it will be interesting to see what pans out with Saudi Arbia.
 
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DoC_FouALieR

New Member
Au contraire... I have conquered many French women of Provence and also taken the time to learn the language. But the issue at hand has nothing to do with the people but the defense industry. My question to you is "What is the health of Dassault?"
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Ho mais quel tombeur ce Big-E !
More seriously, the health of Dassault is... depending of the health of our Army budgets! The real problem for the compagny is the after Rafale, because are we going to develop a futur aircraft alone? Certainly not, so Dassault has to reconsider his policy regarding the international market, right now.
I have heard recently that a country of persian gulf could have ordered some Rafales, but I m not sure of that.
 
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Big-E

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
DoC_FouALieR said:
Ho mais quel tombeur ce Big-E !
More seriously, the health of Dassault is... depending of the health of our Army budgets! The real problem for the compagny is the after Rafale, because are we going to develop a futur aircraft alone? Certainly not, so Dassault has to reconsider his policy regarding the international market, right now.
I have heard recently that a country of persian gulf could have ordered some Rafales, but I m not sure of that.
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They don't call me BIG-E for nothing... :rolleyes:

Well it already cost something like 20 billion euros to develop. How can they plan on another future aircraft when they can't sell the one they have? :confused:
 
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