Modernizing Russian inventory
- Thread starter Big-E
- Start date
FutureTank
Banned Member
All Arms, all Services?!
What about acquisiton of upgraded/refited platforms?
What about acquisiton of upgraded/refited platforms?
contedicavour
New Member
I'll be a bit more detailed :
> Air Force : which types and how many of the most recent Fulcrums and Flankers (or even Foxhounds) can launch AA10 and R77/AA12 BVR missiles ?
> Air Force : which types and how many of the most recent Fencers and air-to-ground versions of Flankers carry LGBs and modern GPS-guided cruise missiles ?
> Navy : what armament is carried by the Kuznetsov's navalized Flankers ? My specific interest is anti-shipping missiles and the presence or not of R77.
> Navy : to what extent does the Russian Navy really plan to install/retrofit Klub/Onyx/Yakhont SSMs on its DDGs and FFGs ? For the moment all I see is Sunburn and Uran.
thks & cheers
> Air Force : which types and how many of the most recent Fulcrums and Flankers (or even Foxhounds) can launch AA10 and R77/AA12 BVR missiles ?
> Air Force : which types and how many of the most recent Fencers and air-to-ground versions of Flankers carry LGBs and modern GPS-guided cruise missiles ?
> Navy : what armament is carried by the Kuznetsov's navalized Flankers ? My specific interest is anti-shipping missiles and the presence or not of R77.
> Navy : to what extent does the Russian Navy really plan to install/retrofit Klub/Onyx/Yakhont SSMs on its DDGs and FFGs ? For the moment all I see is Sunburn and Uran.
thks & cheers
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #4
Don't care about upgrades... I want to know what is new to help understand where Russia will sit in 10-15 years when Soviet equipment is unservicable.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #5
Production and Distribution of Russian Military Armaments (1992-99)
Armament Type/Domestic Sales
Aircraft---- 7
Helicopters ---- 8
Submarines---- 2
Surface ships---- 2
Tanks---- 31
Armor troop-carriers---- 17
Anti-air missile systems---- 1
SOURCE: "Nesokrushimaya i legendarnaya," Komsomolskaya Pravda, March 31, 2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air Force shortfalls
"At the moment, most of the aeroplanes and helicopters in the Russian Armed Forces are considered to be in the mature phase. Around 55% of the platforms are in use for more than 15 years, and 90% of the fleet operate under platform life extension programmes. According to some data, lifecycle of the majority of the fleet should end within five years. This means that at least 3,000 aircraft and 1,200 helicopters would soon be taken out of service."
Russian Military Procurement – New Budget, Old Problems
Date Published: 27 Jan 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2006 Military Procurement
Army
30 T-90s---- new
100 BTR-80/90---- new
180 T-72/T-80----- Soviet Era/refurbished
600 refurbished BMPs,BMDs,BTRs
20 SAM systems get missile replacements... not new systems
Air Force
50 aircraft total (Su-24/25/27/Mig-29)---- refurbished
10 total (Mi-28/Ka-50)---- new
Most of the 11 billion spent is on nuclear forces
Armament Type/Domestic Sales
Aircraft---- 7
Helicopters ---- 8
Submarines---- 2
Surface ships---- 2
Tanks---- 31
Armor troop-carriers---- 17
Anti-air missile systems---- 1
SOURCE: "Nesokrushimaya i legendarnaya," Komsomolskaya Pravda, March 31, 2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air Force shortfalls
"At the moment, most of the aeroplanes and helicopters in the Russian Armed Forces are considered to be in the mature phase. Around 55% of the platforms are in use for more than 15 years, and 90% of the fleet operate under platform life extension programmes. According to some data, lifecycle of the majority of the fleet should end within five years. This means that at least 3,000 aircraft and 1,200 helicopters would soon be taken out of service."
Russian Military Procurement – New Budget, Old Problems
Date Published: 27 Jan 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2006 Military Procurement
Army
30 T-90s---- new
100 BTR-80/90---- new
180 T-72/T-80----- Soviet Era/refurbished
600 refurbished BMPs,BMDs,BTRs
20 SAM systems get missile replacements... not new systems
Air Force
50 aircraft total (Su-24/25/27/Mig-29)---- refurbished
10 total (Mi-28/Ka-50)---- new
Most of the 11 billion spent is on nuclear forces
Last edited:
FutureTank
Banned Member
This is Napoleonic
When the infantry is poor, use more artillery
I was going to do this myself anyway, but this may take time ok
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #7
I would appreciate any procurement data you can pick up... my Russian isn't very good.This is Napoleonic
When the infantry is poor, use more artillery
I was going to do this myself anyway, but this may take time ok
Well add to your list of new aircraft:
2 x Su 34 Fullback aircraft, delivered 15 Dec 2006
Found this when browsing today ..
From Global Security.Org
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-34.htm
"On 15 December 2006 Russia's Air Force received its first two newly built Su-34 Fullback bombers. A ceremonial handover of the Su-34s took place at the Chkalov Aircraft Production Association in Novosibirsk, in West Siberia. In attendance were Russia's Air Force commander, Army General Vladimir Mikhailov, and Sukhoi holding Director General Mikhail Pogosyan."
A long wait, but some new toys that will I guess be much appreciated
2 x Su 34 Fullback aircraft, delivered 15 Dec 2006
Found this when browsing today ..
From Global Security.Org
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-34.htm
"On 15 December 2006 Russia's Air Force received its first two newly built Su-34 Fullback bombers. A ceremonial handover of the Su-34s took place at the Chkalov Aircraft Production Association in Novosibirsk, in West Siberia. In attendance were Russia's Air Force commander, Army General Vladimir Mikhailov, and Sukhoi holding Director General Mikhail Pogosyan."
A long wait, but some new toys that will I guess be much appreciated
Well its only the first deliveries. German forces received three NH-90 this year. That doesnt imply we are getting three only each year.
As far as I can see, the idea is to get 58 Su-34 before 2015 which still is not much but realistic in terms of russian delivery schedules of the last years. After 2008 the delivery rate per year is supposed to be ten units.
Related (translated russian) article:
http://www.royfc.com/news/jul/0706jul01.html
contedicavour
New Member
Back to my post number 3 above... doesn't anybody have answers (for instance by browsing Jane's all the World's aircrafts ) ?
If the only new bird is SU34 in 50-something production series, knowing which MIG29/31-SU27/30/32 can carry R77 is key to evaluating their operational capabilities
cheers
) ?If the only new bird is SU34 in 50-something production series, knowing which MIG29/31-SU27/30/32 can carry R77 is key to evaluating their operational capabilities
cheers
The Mig-31s never carried R-77, they just got upgraded Mig-31M with better avionics and I think they are probably carrying some improved version of AA-9.Back to my post number 3 above... doesn't anybody have answers (for instance by browsing Jane's all the World's aircrafts
If the only new bird is SU34 in 50-something production series, knowing which MIG29/31-SU27/30/32 can carry R77 is key to evaluating their operational capabilities
cheers
Mig-29/su-27 - only the upgraded ones to smt and sm standard can actually use R-77. I know in 2005, they upgraded 11 su-27s, not sure about this year, Big-E's numbers are probably correct.
They are hoping for eventually around 100 su-34 over the lifetime and 58 by 2015. Also, they got 2 Tu-160 this year, I think they will probably get 1 per year from now on.
The navy's shape looks even worse than this.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #14
2005 Military Procurement
Army
T-90s---- 17
BMP/2/3---- 14
BTR-80---- 92
SS-26 ---- 2
"The new or modernized samples of technical equipment represent literally only a drop in the bucket of what is minimally necessary and there is no reason to expect that this situation will cardinally change within the next decade, though Russian military heads continue to amuse themselves with illusions about ostensibly ‘massive rearmament’ after 2010."
Ait Force
Tu-160---- 1
Navy
677 SSK---- 1
21630 Gunboat---- 1
Last edited:
Grand Danois
Entertainer
What they procure has a 30-35 year life. Cumulated it becomes quantity. But why procure en masse, when they have lots of upgradable Cold War stuff still around.
The current purchases is in order to keep the industrial base alive until block replacements become relevant (and to fill out capability gaps).
0.02 €
The current purchases is in order to keep the industrial base alive until block replacements become relevant (and to fill out capability gaps).
0.02 €
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #16
Not at these rates. The Cold-War stuff they're upgrading is still obsolete and maintenance instensive equipment is eating up even more of the few precious funds needed for procurement.
In addition to "St. Petersburg" another three Type 677 SSK are being built, those are: "Kronstadt" (IOC 2009), "Petrosawodsk" (IOC ?) and "Sewastopol" (IOC 2010). The russian naval shipbuilding programme is definitely gaining momentum, although its still a far shot from the soviet procurements. Still, now they are actually getting new boats instead of cancelling existing procurements. Source: Russian state news agency RIA Novosti, 11/30/06.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #18
How long will it last? Once the inflation from gas prices drop the budget will fall to it's low levels. All the started projects will take 10 years to complete if they don't cancel them later. They still have ships from the Cold War that aren't done yet.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Obsolete depending on environment. Overall I agree. As you know, I would also downsize their forces considerably in order to get funding per unit up.
I'm just saying: don't read too much into current procurement numbers.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #20
It would be one thing if it was just a year or two, but trends over the last 15 years show the same lack of procurement. You can't say 15 years of scant buys equal a servicable modern military.