- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #21
Hi Waylander,
Germany still uses conscription, right?
Do some conscripts become officers upon entry, or are officers all professional soldiers?
Where do you source your officers?
Where do your armed services source their officers?
- Thread starter adroth
- Start date
Germany still uses conscription, right?
Do some conscripts become officers upon entry, or are officers all professional soldiers?
Where do you source your officers?
Jup, we have a conscription system of minimum 9 month and maximum of 23 month.
Officers start as professional soldiers (With a minimum service time of 12 years) or just decide to go professional during their normal time as a conscriptor. The time as a conscriptor is a good opportunity to see the real life in the armed forces and to see if it is really what you want to do aside from shiny recruiting movies.
You have to have finished gymnasium (The highest of our three school forms lasting for 12-13 years which is also necessary for a civil university) to be able to become an officer.
Till some month ago the future officers performed their 3 month basic training and special training (depending on the branch of service) directly in the normal units (Only our air force has special training regiments, army and navy perform all the training within the units) together with all other soldiers.
After this they start with their courses at our academies (Or at foreign academies) which are constantly interrupted by practicing times in their normal units. This goes on till they are Lieutenant (second class). Than they study on university and after this go back to the troops.
Just recently the Bundeswehr began to form special officer training btls which perform the basic training and special training.
This is not a good idea in my opinion because it differs them too much from the other soldiers. They are some time in service till they start to see a real unit.
In my opinion it was good that the future officers have all been normal green recruits among all the others before getting the boss.
Gives you a feeling for the ongoing in a normal unit.
This worked for decades and now with all the transformation and joint&combined going on they start to copy the wrong systems instead of learning the good parts of other systems and keep what is good with our system.
Officers start as professional soldiers (With a minimum service time of 12 years) or just decide to go professional during their normal time as a conscriptor. The time as a conscriptor is a good opportunity to see the real life in the armed forces and to see if it is really what you want to do aside from shiny recruiting movies.
You have to have finished gymnasium (The highest of our three school forms lasting for 12-13 years which is also necessary for a civil university) to be able to become an officer.
Till some month ago the future officers performed their 3 month basic training and special training (depending on the branch of service) directly in the normal units (Only our air force has special training regiments, army and navy perform all the training within the units) together with all other soldiers.
After this they start with their courses at our academies (Or at foreign academies) which are constantly interrupted by practicing times in their normal units. This goes on till they are Lieutenant (second class). Than they study on university and after this go back to the troops.
Just recently the Bundeswehr began to form special officer training btls which perform the basic training and special training.
This is not a good idea in my opinion because it differs them too much from the other soldiers. They are some time in service till they start to see a real unit.
In my opinion it was good that the future officers have all been normal green recruits among all the others before getting the boss.
Gives you a feeling for the ongoing in a normal unit.
This worked for decades and now with all the transformation and joint&combined going on they start to copy the wrong systems instead of learning the good parts of other systems and keep what is good with our system.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #23
Thanks Waylander. This is very different from how we do it, and is quite fascinating. Let me summarize how I understand what you described, and let me know if I got it right.
1. Officers can come from one of two sources:
- Individuals who apply for officership from the start
- Conscripts who apply for officership during their conscription period (or after perhaps?)
2. All officer candidates start out as regular troops, trained by the units to which they are assigned. This lasts 3 months. Recently, however, the Army started training their officer candidates at special units.
3. After completion of the 3-month training program, they go into the relevant training academies. (Duration of this phase is unclear). The become 2LTs after completion of this phase of the training
4. This is then followed by university schooling (?) [What courses do they take? Will any course do?]
How'd I do?
1. Officers can come from one of two sources:
- Individuals who apply for officership from the start
- Conscripts who apply for officership during their conscription period (or after perhaps?)
2. All officer candidates start out as regular troops, trained by the units to which they are assigned. This lasts 3 months. Recently, however, the Army started training their officer candidates at special units.
3. After completion of the 3-month training program, they go into the relevant training academies. (Duration of this phase is unclear). The become 2LTs after completion of this phase of the training
4. This is then followed by university schooling (?) [What courses do they take? Will any course do?]
How'd I do?
You're doing great. 
1. Jup, you can apply for the job before, within or after your time as a conscriptor. Being not taken as a wannabe officer does not excludes you from performing military service or a civil service.
2. Right.
3. After the 3 month of basic training (infantry) you start with your special training (for example doing gunnery and driving training in a tank unit or learning radio operations in a EW unit). After this you start your officer courses. For example in my unit there were future officers with the rank of Gefreiter OA (OA stands for future officer) doing the same things like normal Gefreite for some time (Despite some extra training and service for them after the normal duty).
After this you have your officers courses on various training facilities with some phases of practical training (For example as a group leader or tank commander) in the normal units.
This lasts till month 15.
From then on you start at one of the two Bundeswehr-Universities (Or you might do an exchange program, for example with France).
The kind of study often enough has nothing to do with your military branch and is mainly for your life after the Bundeswehr.
This lasts till month 54.
After this you enter full service again till you leave after 12 years or you go on serving after these years.
The difference between now and the past not long ago is that basic training is now done in one of our training btls and special training for your branche starts later (After some general officer courses and not before them) and is also seperated from the normal units.
This results in the officer still starting as a normal green soldier but being seperated from their "normal" comrades and first seeing a real unit during their practicing phases as groub leaders/tank commanders/etc..
For me this is wrong because of two things.
The wannabe officers have no idea of a real unit and how you feel at being just one of hundreds. And suddenly they have to command a group. Not a very good mixture.
And they are having less time in a unit of their branch of service which results in officers having less ideas of for example having to run a group or tank in a maneuver than before.
1. Jup, you can apply for the job before, within or after your time as a conscriptor. Being not taken as a wannabe officer does not excludes you from performing military service or a civil service.
2. Right.
3. After the 3 month of basic training (infantry) you start with your special training (for example doing gunnery and driving training in a tank unit or learning radio operations in a EW unit). After this you start your officer courses. For example in my unit there were future officers with the rank of Gefreiter OA (OA stands for future officer) doing the same things like normal Gefreite for some time (Despite some extra training and service for them after the normal duty).
After this you have your officers courses on various training facilities with some phases of practical training (For example as a group leader or tank commander) in the normal units.
This lasts till month 15.
From then on you start at one of the two Bundeswehr-Universities (Or you might do an exchange program, for example with France).
The kind of study often enough has nothing to do with your military branch and is mainly for your life after the Bundeswehr.
This lasts till month 54.
After this you enter full service again till you leave after 12 years or you go on serving after these years.
The difference between now and the past not long ago is that basic training is now done in one of our training btls and special training for your branche starts later (After some general officer courses and not before them) and is also seperated from the normal units.
This results in the officer still starting as a normal green soldier but being seperated from their "normal" comrades and first seeing a real unit during their practicing phases as groub leaders/tank commanders/etc..
For me this is wrong because of two things.
The wannabe officers have no idea of a real unit and how you feel at being just one of hundreds. And suddenly they have to command a group. Not a very good mixture.
And they are having less time in a unit of their branch of service which results in officers having less ideas of for example having to run a group or tank in a maneuver than before.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #25
I tend to agree with your disagreement. The old system sounds like a great way to make sure that junior officers know a thing or two before they take command.
Here in Pakistan 3-5 officers go abroad from each batch, don't know about specifics but the main three they go to the most are Sandhurst, Chinese mil academy and West-point (have restarted sending officers since the lifting of sanctions). The Pakistan Military Academy (PMA) receives cadets from mostly Bangladesh, KSA, Turkey and others.
Apart from that later on in their careers alot of officers go abroad for various courses varying from the basic platoon commander courses to studying at the highest level. I remember that my dad was attached to the Bundeswehr from 1989-91 for various courses in mechanised infantry warfare and then later in 02 he went to the National Defence University, Fort McNair, Washington DC.
Apart from that later on in their careers alot of officers go abroad for various courses varying from the basic platoon commander courses to studying at the highest level. I remember that my dad was attached to the Bundeswehr from 1989-91 for various courses in mechanised infantry warfare and then later in 02 he went to the National Defence University, Fort McNair, Washington DC.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #27
Hi MG3,
Do all of your officers come from the Pakistan academy, or are there other sources?
Is there only one academy for all services?
Do all of your officers come from the Pakistan academy, or are there other sources?
Interesting. I hope someone from the PRC shares some info.
Looks like our contries share quite a number of acronyms. Our own academy is also called the Philippine Military Academy (PMA). Is "Pakistan Military Academy" the official name, or is it just an English name for those who can't understand the Pakistani language?
Is there only one academy for all services?
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Nope there are different institutes for the different services. For army it is PMA for the navy its someplace in Karachi and for the airforce I think it is done at a PAF base Risalpur.
Yep!! PMA is the official name. But ppl also call it Kakool because of the name of the area.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #30
Thanks Scorpius.
Is the BMA the only source of officers, or do you have other programs like OCS? Can sergeants who gain college degrees become officers through OCS?