Australian Defence Industry

[gf0012-aust]

I take it you are commenting on it as a business case?

yes, definitely

 

[icelord]

Well the quickest things that come to my mind:
Nulka Active Decoys, In-service with RAN and the US Navy
Metal Storm: Capability ready to fill lots of markets from personal weapons to shipborne heavy weapons.
Bushmaster; Continued marketing should see an increased market, it seems likely the Netherlands will make a purchase.

Although alot of work done in partnership with other countires the work done on Scramjets has lead to qutie a expertise amongst Australian researchers.

I so want to see Metalstorm deployed, but where?
And the Bushmaster has been sold to the Dutch, hell Afghanistan is a great place to Show it off to them, even get a feel for it.
The USN also purchases their...Pressure tanks for divers i believe from small Newcastle based company, which is no small order.
As well as componets for JSF, which could lead to other Fighters:unknown

 

[FutureTank]

I so want to see Metalstorm deployed, but where?

I believe US will not allow Metalstorm to market outside of a very select clintele

And the Bushmaster has been sold to the Dutch, hell Afghanistan is a great place to Show it off to them, even get a feel for it.

There appears to be a plentitude of vehicles in the Bushmaster class

The USN also purchases their...Pressure tanks for divers i believe from small Newcastle based company, which is no small order.

Hardly a mass market, isn't it? How many pressure tanks are held by USN?

As well as componets for JSF, which could lead to other Fighters:unknown

Don't we make components because we are part of the deal to buy the aircraft?

 

[icelord]

I believe US will not allow Metalstorm to market outside of a very select clintele

But where can u deploy it, seems overkill in Iraq, Afghanistan

There appears to be a plentitude of vehicles in the Bushmaster class

The Basic IMV with modular change, command, Ambulance, etc, plus the Ute version on Steroids

Hardly a mass market, isn't it? How many pressure tanks are held by USN?

Everyone has a diver, and wants the best

Don't we make components because we are part of the deal to buy the aircraft?

Yep, may as well improve our skills and allow it to lead to add on sales

 

[Todjaeger]

Wow, I like the interest in the thread now. This was the sort of discussion I had hoped for when I started the thread.

With the obvious discussion limits due to classified tech, I was hoping there could be some exchange over what Australia does/can do in terms of defence industry for both it's own needs, and to supply a larger world market.

I do have to say, I don't think sales of the Bushmaster IMV is that significant, as FutureTank said, there are a number of similar type vehicles on the market. South Africa in particular makes several, and IIRC the Bushmaster was originally tested for survivability vs. one S. African vehicle (I don't remember which one).

Now if Australia could launch something ubiquitous... (like the suspension/drive system of a Unimog)

How does Australia rank in terms of UUV/ROV?

-Cheers

 

[FutureTank]

Metalstorm is listed by US DoD as a weapons system with stategic significance (top ten I believe), and has been proposed for use on so many platforms throughout US SERVICES (not just Army/Marines), that the suggestion is it will be a centrepiece weapon system in many next generation platforms in US.

Australia has some advantages and disadvantages so far as defence manufacturing for export is concerned (this discussion excludes software design which is a separate issue).
Fistly as a nation we are b****y clever, and inventive.
Secondly we have a good manufacturing base which IS (I believe) able to take on major projects and work together to produce a multi-system platform for either land, naval or air application.
We have access to the wealthiest economies in the World, though in case of China there would be issues with Americans.

One of the major disadvantages is scale of domestic production. To make anything, one needs a fairly decent interest to intiate design and development process. In many ways Australian industries are somewhat behind other prominant players in the market.

Below are ADF projects by year. Consider that design and development typically in a well managed environment take 1-5 years depending on complexity and application.

Which have export potential?

FY 2005/06
AIR 5376 Phase 3.2C Hornet Structural Refurbishment Stage 2 – Additional
JP 2068 Phase 2B Computer Network Defence
JP 2069 Phase 1B High Grade Cryptographic Equipment – Secure Telephony
JP 2077 Phase 2B Improved Logistics Information Systems
JP 2080 Phase 2B Defence Management Systems Improvement
JP 8001 Phase 2C Headquarters Joint Operational Command – Alternative Headquarters

FY 2006/07
AIR 5276 Phase 8B AP-3C Electronic Support Measure – Acquisition
AIR 5276 CAP 1 AP- 3C Capability Assurance Program
AIR 5376 Phase 2.3C F/A-18 EWSP – Jammers
JP 126 Phase 2 Joint Theatre Distribution System
JP 2030 Phase 8 ADF Joint Command Support Environment
JP 2048 Phases 4A/4B Amphibious Ships
JP 2089 Phase 2 Tactical Information Exchange Domain (Data Links)
JP 2090 Phase 1C Combined Information Environment
LAND 58 Phase 3 Weapon Locating Radar Life of Type Extension
LAND 121 Phase 3A Overlander – Field Vehicles & Trailers
LAND 125 Phase 3 Soldier Enhancement Version 2
SEA 1428 Phase 4 Evolved Seasparrow Missiles
SEA 4000 Phase 3 Air Warfare Destroyer

FY 2007/08
AIR 5405 Phase 1 Replacement Mobile Region Operations Centre
AIR 5431 Phase 1 Future Air Traffic Control Surveillance Systems
AIR 7000 Phase 1B Multi-mission Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (MUAV)
AIR 8000 Phase 2 Battlefield Airlifter
AIR 9000 Phase 7A Navy Helicopter Training System
JP 2008 Phase 3F Military Satellite Capability
JP 2044 Phase 3A Project Eagle Eye
JP 2065 Phase 2 Integrated Broadcast System
JP 2072 Phase 2 Battlespace Communications System (Land)
JP 2077 Phase 2D Improved Logistics Information Systems
JP 2085 Phase 2 Explosive Ordnance Warstock
JP 2097 Phase 1 REDFIN – Enhancements to Special Operations Capability
JP 2099 Phase 1 Identity Management – Project CERTE
JP 5408 Phase 3 ADF Navigation Warfare (NAVWAR) Capability
LAND 40 Phase 2 Direct Fire Support Weapon
LAND 75 Phase 3.4 Battlefield Command Support System
LAND 144 Phase 1 Counter Mine Capability
LAND 146 Phase 2 Combat Identification for Land Forces

FY 2008/09 to FY 2010/11
AIR 5276 CAP 2 AP- 3C Capability Assurance Program
AIR 5416 Phase 4B C-130J Electronic Warfare Self Protection (EWSP)
AIR 5428 Phase 1 Pilot Training System
AIR 6000 Phase 2A/2B New Aerospace Combat Capability
AIR 8000 Phase 1 C-130H Refurbishment/ Replacement
AIR 9000 Phase 3 Seahawk Mid-life Upgrade and Life Extension
AIR 9000 Phase 5B.1 Chinook Mid-Life Upgrade
DEF 7013 Phase 4 Joint Intelligence Support System
JP 66 Phase 1 Replacement for Air Defence Targets
JP 1770 Phase 1 Rapid Environmental Assessment
LAND 17 Phase 1 Artillery Replacement
LAND 53 Phase 1BR NINOX – Night Fighting Equipment Replacement
LAND 91 Phase 6 Small Arms Life of Type Extension (LOTE)
LAND 121 Phase 3B Overlander – Field Vehicles & Trailers
SEA 1439 Phase 5B.2A Collins Continuous Improvement Program
SEA 1439 Phase 6 Collins Sonar Replacement
SEA 1442 Phase 4 Maritime Communication & Information Management Architecture Modernisation – Major Capability

FY 2009/10 to FY 2011/12
AIR 5276 CAP 3 AP- 3C Capability Assurance Program
AIR 5432 Phase 1 Communications, Navigation, Surveillance/Air Traffic Management
DEF 224 Phase 3 Force Level Electronic Warfare
JP 2008 Phase 4 Military Satellite Capability
JP 2048 Phase 3 Amphibious Watercraft Replacement
JP 2064 Phase 3 Geospatial Information Infrastructure and Services
JP 2069 Phase 2 High Grade Cryptographic Equipment
JP 2072 Phase 3 Battlespace Communications System (Land)
JP 2080 Phase 3 Defence Management Systems Improvement
JP 2085 Phase 3 Explosive Ordnance Warstock
JP 2089 Phase 3 Tactical Information Exchange Domain (Data Links)
LAND 75 Phase 4 Battlefield Command Support System
LAND 125 Phase 4 Soldier Enhancement Version 3

FY 2010/11 to FY 2012/13
JP 90 Phase 1 ADF Identification Friend or Foe
JP 2044 Phase 3B Project Eagle Eye
JP 2047 Phase 3 Wide Area Communications Network Replacement
JP 2065 Phase 3 Integrated Broadcast System
LAND 112 Phase 4 ASLAV Enhancement

FY 2011/12 to 2013/14
AIR 7000 Phase 2B Maritime Patrol Aircraft
JP 2060 Phase 3 ADF Deployable Health Capability
JP 2096 Phase 1 Surveillance Enhancement
LAND 400 Phase 1 Survivability of Ground Forces
SEA 1654 Phase 3 Maritime Operational Support Capability – SUCCESS Replacement

FY 2012/13 to 2014/15
JP 2030 Phase 9 ADF Joint Command Support Environment
SEA 1439 Phase 5B.2B Collins Continuous Improvement Program
SEA 1778 Phase 1 Deployable MCM – Organic Mine Counter Measures

FY 2013/14 to 2015/16
AIR 5438 Phase 1 Lead-in-Fighter Mid-life Upgrade
AIR 9000 Phase 7B Army Helicopter Training System
JP 2048 Phase 4C Strategic Lift Ship Capability 67
JP 2080 Phase 4 Defence Management Systems Improvement
SEA 1448 Phase 4 ANZAC Air Search and Further Capability Enhancements

FY 2014/15 to 2016/17
AIR 6000 Phase 2C New Aerospace Combat Capability
FY 2015/16 to 2017/18
AIR 5077 Phase 4 Block upgrade for the AEW&C
AIR 9000 Phase 5B.2 Chinook Mid-Life Upgrade
Anti-Submarine Warfare/Anti-Surface Warfare Helicopter Capability
AIR 9000 Phase 8
JP 129 Phase 3 Tactical Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (TUAV) – Enhancements/ Upgrades
JP 2069 Phase 3 High Grade Cryptographic Equipment
JP 2072 Phase 4 Battlespace Communications System (Land)
JP 2076 Phase 1 Psychological Operations Production System
JP 2078 Phase 2 Hyper-spectral Imaging
LAND 19 Phase 7 GBAD – RBS 70 Enhancements or replacement
LAND 75 Phase 5 Army Battle Management System
LAND 91 Phase 7 Small Arms LOTE – Remainder of the Fleet
LAND 146 Phase 3 Combat Identification for Land Forces
SEA 1100 Phase 4 Long Range Persistent Subsurface Detection Capability

 

[Todjaeger]

One area of defence industry I have wondered about is aircraft maintenance & modification. Australia seems to currently have a number of different upgrade and LOTE programs going for different types of aircraft. If Australia could leverage that corporate knowledge and be able to offer such services to other nations with small fleets of aircraft, that is one possible export. If memory serves, Israel has been able to do something similar.

An example of a lost opportunity would be the AC Sentinel series of World War II Cruiser tanks. Only 66 were built, but they were an impressive debut for a nation that didn't have a major engineering or industrial capacity at the time. All the Sentinels had a cast hull, one of three such designs from the Allies during WWII. When it first appeared, it only had a 2pdr ~40mm gun much like other 8th Army Cruiser tanks, but had the speed, range and armour of the later British Cromwell tank. The AC4 Sentinel version, which debuted around the same time as the Cromwell (which initially had a 6pdr ~57mm, before moving to a 75mm gun) mounted a 17pdr (long barrel 76.2mm). Which I believe rivaled the anti-tank performance of the late war (very late) 90mm gun used by the US on the M26 Pershing.

Production of the Sentinel stopped once the maritime supply chain from the US to Australia was in place, but it does cause one to wonder where Western tank design would be now if production had continued. It wasn't until 1945 that the Allies had tanks which could match German designs like the Panther or Tiger which had by then seen service for a few years.

I'll wrack my brain to see if I can come up with areas in which Australia might want to try competing. Two that immediately come to mind are High speed Vessels (see Austal & Incat) and possible long-range Coast Guard/Police patrol boats. Countries like Nigeria, Venezuela or Colombia could find such assets useful particularly if they have an aging or poorly maintained fleet of vessels.

-Cheers

 

[Simon9]

I'll wrack my brain to see if I can come up with areas in which Australia might want to try competing. Two that immediately come to mind are High speed Vessels (see Austal & Incat) and possible long-range Coast Guard/Police patrol boats. Countries like Nigeria, Venezuela or Colombia could find such assets useful particularly if they have an aging or poorly maintained fleet of vessels.

Austal just finalised the delivery of a fleet of patrol boats for Yemen, so I'd definitely say long-range patrol boats is an area Australia should be focusing on.

Likewise they are on a real winner with the Bushmaster IMV, with rumours going around that the Dutch are considering another, much larger purchase. If ADI could pick up a few more large orders like that, and then possibly even crack the US market, the Bushmaster could become a MAJOR export vehicle, and even the dominant protected mobility vehicle in the world. It'll be tough, because as you said, Todjaeger, the market is already flooded. But Bushmaster is, in my opinion, one of the top, and it's also one of the VERY few to be seeing large amounts of operational service (now with two armies in at least three operations). Its other advantages are a monocoque hull instead of just an uparmoured truck, and its large carrying capacity (nine fully-equipped men) compared to many of the smaller armoured patrol vehicles which don't take more than five.

Because let's face it, the US needed Bushmasters about three years ago, and American soldiers have been paying for it ever since.

Another area Australia is a leader is in OTH radars like JORN. JORN's performance is still mostly classified, but it is rumoured to be able to track B2s flying into Guam, under ideal conditions

 

[Todjaeger]

Austal just finalised the delivery of a fleet of patrol boats for Yemen, so I'd definitely say long-range patrol boats is an area Australia should be focusing on.

Likewise they are on a real winner with the Bushmaster IMV, with rumours going around that the Dutch are considering another, much larger purchase. If ADI could pick up a few more large orders like that, and then possibly even crack the US market, the Bushmaster could become a MAJOR export vehicle, and even the dominant protected mobility vehicle in the world. It'll be tough, because as you said, Todjaeger, the market is already flooded. But Bushmaster is, in my opinion, one of the top, and it's also one of the VERY few to be seeing large amounts of operational service (now with two armies in at least three operations). Its other advantages are a monocoque hull instead of just an uparmoured truck, and its large carrying capacity (nine fully-equipped men) compared to many of the smaller armoured patrol vehicles which don't take more than five.

Because let's face it, the US needed Bushmasters about three years ago, and American soldiers have been paying for it ever since.

Another area Australia is a leader is in OTH radars like JORN. JORN's performance is still mostly classified, but it is rumoured to be able to track B2s flying into Guam, under ideal conditions

Call me a cynic, but I suspect one of the main reasons the Netherlands has purchased the Bushmaster is because ADI is owned by Thales. Not that I'm saying it isn't a good vehicle mind you... Though in some respects I would have preferred the Tenix S600 since that uses a Unimog based suspension instead of a Timoney design.

As for competition, the South African Nyala is in service/testing with the US, though I believe that the USMC has been looking at the Bushmaster. And yes, the US needed this type of vehicle three years ago. Sadly, we're still using up-armoured HMMVs for patrolling.:shudder

One area I rather like would be development of a HEV drive system. As far as I'm aware, no country has started trials for an armoured vehicle using a HEV system. If Australia could develop an HEV powerpack it could very well export and/or license it.

An observation I have made is that much of the current Western military inventory is really geared towards operations in Europe. While this is understandable given the Cold War between NATO & the Warsaw Pact, the Iron Curtain fell about 15 years ago now. Nations are still using existing equipment that has been modified to operate in other areas. Not all such modifications are such a great success.

If Australia could come up with replacement kit that wasn't designed with some of the assumptions built into the current kit... Again, I go back to the HMMV. The vehicle has good offroad performance, is fairly small, transportable, can be armoured, etc. However, it is now being used as a patrol vehicle and well as recon in hostile or uncontrolled territory. Given that when it was designed, it seemed to be designed with the understanding that the areas it would operate in would be Allied areas. With such an assumption no longer holding true, might it be time to start replacing the Jeep replacement, preferably with more attention to where & how it will operate.

-Cheers

 

[FutureTank]

I think the IFV to come out of the Land 400 has possibilities since ADF alone will need hundreds, and NZ will probably purchase some also.