Market for light frigates/corvettes : the Gowind ships of DCN

[contedicavour]

The market for light frigates / corvettes has been a bit silent lately, after the MEKOs sold to South Africa and Malaysia a few years ago. Germany is building its K130 and Russia has its projects, but export-wise, nothing new for a while.

DCN is coming out with a family of ships called GOWIND, 80 meters to 100, 1250 to 1900 tonnes, equipped with SSMs, SAMs (either Aster 15 or Mica VL), and a helo (hangar only on the largest design).

Apparently there's interest from Bulgaria and Saudi Arabia.

cheers

 

[Galrahn]

I think the market for these types of ships may increase substancially over the next decade, particularly if the US and China relations stay as they are today.

While most discussion board talk is centered around the big aspect of the US Navy, from Aircraft Carriers to 12,000 ton DD(X) destroyers to 50,000 ton Marine Aviation ships, a lot of policy direction of the US Navy focuses on several new concepts that promote the small Navy corvette as the centerpiece of keeping sea lanes open for trade.

I think you will see buzz phrases like the "1000 Ship Navy" and "Global Fleet Stations" emerge as centerpieces in US Naval policy discussions as the US Navy begins to realize the lessons they have learned from the two current US wars. Both of these buzz phrases are centered around the US Navy being an information enabler, maritime partner, and infrastructure support provider for smaller countries providing maritime security along sea trade routes around lightly protected ports.

I think one side effect of this US strategic mission focus will adjust purchasing decisions among many smaller allied countires in the small Navy catagory, ranging from oil rich areas of Africa and South America to emerging manufacturing markets in South East asia, making corvettes and cheaper light frigates (no VLS) more important in contributing to regional maritime security.

After all, few people realize the biggest Naval battles in last 15 years have actually taken place in the last 12 months, mostly off both coasts of Africa and off the coast of Sri Lanka, and for the most part the battles have been fought between vessels less than 100 tons. A corvette between 400-1200 tons without VLS would make a significant impact on these naval battles.

The key will be keeping the price down by not adding too much firepower but adding enough weapons and sensors to be effective. A 'major' purchase from most of the countries looking to build a small navy over the next decade will not be more than 200 million on new equipment, and when making a 'major' purchase they will expect more than 1 ship for that 200 million.

In other words, I think the future may be even smaller craft than the GOWIND, like the M-class boats (like the US Navy Stiletto), the CMN Interceptor DV 20 A-HS, or something like the Austal 56 Patrol Boats which give a purchasing nation either numerous smaller craft or fewer larger craft, all of which can support a number of onboard and offboard systems, to operate a new littoral Navy.

 

[contedicavour]

Very interesting perspective thanks.

Just a question : I'm aware of the naval battles between small patrol ships of the Tamil and those (mainly Shangai II and Dvora, may be even Reshef/Saar) of the Sri Lankan navy, but I didn't know about naval clashes in Africa. Could you tell more about that please ?

cheers

 

[Big-E]

While most discussion board talk is centered around the big aspect of the US Navy, from Aircraft Carriers to 12,000 ton DD(X) destroyers to 50,000 ton Marine Aviation ships, a lot of policy direction of the US Navy focuses on several new concepts that promote the small Navy corvette as the centerpiece of keeping sea lanes open for trade.

I think you will see buzz phrases like the "1000 Ship Navy" and "Global Fleet Stations" emerge as centerpieces in US Naval policy discussions as the US Navy begins to realize the lessons they have learned from the two current US wars. Both of these buzz phrases are centered around the US Navy being an information enabler, maritime partner, and infrastructure support provider for smaller countries providing maritime security along sea trade routes around lightly protected ports.

I think alot of the talk of the 1000 ship Navy has been generated by the outlandish projection costs of DDG-1000, CG(X) and the rise of ship building rates period. It is so expensive to build a top line warship these days the once great British naval power will soon be a shadow of it's former self.

Don't be confused with talk and actual policy. The naval community that dictates the actual policy proposals has a different force concept going into the rest of this century. Do you think a community that was almost ready to accept the Arsenal Ship is ready to jump to a 1000 ship corvette navy?

Your point of littoral ops is evident in acquisitions but don't think for a minute that the USN plans to jump to the average hull size being under 2000 tons. Just look at DDG-1000, it is designed for littoral work but it is a monster weighing in at 12,000 tons. The LCS is the major peice of evidence supporting the 1000 ship concept but it is by no means cheap which is a must for 1000 ships. It is part of an integral framework that still includes several Big Carrier strike groups, as long as these exist you will never see a 1000 ship Navy. The money just isn't there.

 

[Big-E]

I noticed that Ukraine is trying to get Turkey to collaborate on production of a stealth corvette. Anyone heard about this?

 

[contedicavour]

I noticed that Ukraine is trying to get Turkey to collaborate on production of a stealth corvette. Anyone heard about this?

I've also heard something on collaboration on MILGEM corvette project, but rather the other way around : Turkey trying to involve other countries.
Turkey is unlikely to divert its attention from MILGEM anyway...

cheers

 

[icelord]

The Aussie contender for Corvettes.
http://www.austal.com/go/product-information/defence-products/multi-role-corvette
Brilliant for Littoral when needed
Austal has seen the world requiring Corvettes with high speed.

This is what the bloody Indos need to look at more then some stupid subs, but anyway.
I guess the Ukranian Stealth Corvette is to counter the Russian version?

 

[contedicavour]

The Aussie contender for Corvettes.
http://www.austal.com/go/product-information/defence-products/multi-role-corvette
Brilliant for Littoral when needed
Austal has seen the world requiring Corvettes with high speed.

This is what the bloody Indos need to look at more then some stupid subs, but anyway.
I guess the Ukranian Stealth Corvette is to counter the Russian version?

Very interesting link thanks !
I remain a bit sceptical on trimaran designs though... in Italy we've got a couple of 415 tonne oceanographic vessels in the Navy with trimaran design but for the moment we're very far from being persuaded of building larger vessels such as corvettes or frigates with unconventional hulls.
That's why I would like to see who eventually is preferred in the US between the 2 competing designs for LCS.

cheers

 

[Galrahn]

Don't be confused with talk and actual policy. The naval community that dictates the actual policy proposals has a different force concept going into the rest of this century.

...you will never see a 1000 ship Navy. The money just isn't there.

Uhm, I take it you aren't familiar with the "1000 Ship Navy" or "Global Fleet Stations" strategic policies?

Both are directives from the Admiral Michael G. Mullen, Chief of Naval Operations, who decides what is and isn't an "actual policy proposal."

 

[RubiconNZ]

Uhm, I take it you aren't familiar with the "1000 Ship Navy" or "Global Fleet Stations" strategic policies?

Could you tell me about the "Global Fleet Stations" its something I haven't come across as far as I remember, is it a further development of Sea Basing? or is it more literal?

 

[Ragusian]

hello guys!

4 Gowinds 200 have been offered to croatian navy. The first would be built in france, and other 3 in croatia, probably in Kraljevica shipyards. The french are also offering us a deal with the gowinds, a deal of manufacturing parts, specifically the bow section, for FREMM ships. A kind of a offset deal...

The rumour is we're gonna take it. Let's hope.

 

[rickusn]

For Big E and others a quick explanation by the CNO on the two concepts "Global Fleet Stations" and "1000 Ship Navy".:

By no means should this be taken as the ultimate explanation but rather as a starting point.

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=24207

IMHO GFS is the Navy's justification for the LCS and its new Naval Expeditionary Combat Command.


GLOBAL FLEET STATIONS:

Mullen introduced the concept of Global Fleet Stations as one idea to help create such a flexible capability. The idea is to forward deploy, where invited, a small fleet of shallow-draft ships and support vessels to littoral and riverine areas where most allies and partner nations operate their navies.

“Imagine the power of having a cadre of foreign area officers that understand the language, build friendships, engender cooperation and undermine the very conditions often exploited by those who wish to fracture the peace,” he said. “Imagine a hub where all manner of Joint, Inter-Agency, International Organizations, navies, coast guards and non-governmental organizations could partner together as a force for good.”

1000 SHIP NAVY:

Mullen also told the audience that the idea of a 1,000-ship navy - a fleet comprised of ships and capabilities from many law abiding nations, standing watch over the seas together - is gaining traction among the leaders of many of the world’s navies and will be a cornerstone of the new strategy.

"Where the previous Maritime Strategy was designed to defeat a single enemy - and our new one must retain the ability of the joint and coalitions forces to do that - we must also unite all freedom-loving nations to defeat a diverse array of fourth-generation threats," Mullen said. "Today, we are sailing with navies and working with agencies...in different ways than we ever would have imagined just a few years ago."

The CNO was adamant about the need to start working on the strategy right away, saying he wanted it completed over the next 12 to 18 months.

“I will not rest easy – none of us should – until we have that maritime strategy signed, sealed and delivered to the fleet.”

 

[RubiconNZ]

Cheers Rick,
Right what I was looking for.
Thanks

 

[Galrahn]

We should expect a detailed document for Global Fleet Stations by July 07. In many ways it is the evolution of Sea Basing, particular as the reception to current Sea Base plans is luke warm, if not cold.

1000 Ship Navy is conceptional, but it is basically a vision where Navies worldwide to develop an operational level cooperation in information and security for monitoring illegal activity at sea.

This is a good place to start for both concepts as described as of Sept. 2006. Rick, you will like that link.

 

[radiosilence]

The market for light frigates / corvettes has been a bit silent lately, after the MEKOs sold to South Africa and Malaysia a few years ago. Germany is building its K130 and Russia has its projects, but export-wise, nothing new for a while.

DCN is coming out with a family of ships called GOWIND, 80 meters to 100, 1250 to 1900 tonnes, equipped with SSMs, SAMs (either Aster 15 or Mica VL), and a helo (hangar only on the largest design).

Apparently there's interest from Bulgaria and Saudi Arabia.

cheers

Do you know the cost per ship?

some detail info. on the GOWIND class corvettes in the link...

The expanding market for corvettes has led DCN to develop in 2004 a new generation of vessels. The
DCN corvettes, named GOWIND, have been designed in order to meet the today’s naval needs of a
developing maritime nation. This versatile family is composed of 3 different basis versions of
respective displacements 1250 t, 1700 t and 1950 t.
The design of the corvettes has been conducted in a design to cost way after an analysis of the needs
of the potential customers. Moreover, the best architectural options have been considered for a fast
littoral warship. For the propulsion, waterjets have been selected for the efficiency at high speed and
the draft reduction. Different propulsive arrangements have been studied in order to find the best
solutions for the range of maximum proposed speeds (30-35knt). As regard to the helicopter
operations and the combat system performances, the design has paid a special attention to the
seakeeping performances.
The military performances have been highly improved with innovative solutions to reduce the RCS
(unique mast, flush deck SSM, RCS lights, suppresses of the funnels…) and the IR signature (cooling
of exhaust gases).
The reduction of the acquisition cost has been achieved by the optimization of the design according to
the different functions: propulsion aft of the ship, living spaces in the middle and weapon system
forward in order to optimize the architecture and the shipbuilding........

link

 

[contedicavour]

hello guys!

4 Gowinds 200 have been offered to croatian navy. The first would be built in france, and other 3 in croatia, probably in Kraljevica shipyards. The french are also offering us a deal with the gowinds, a deal of manufacturing parts, specifically the bow section, for FREMM ships. A kind of a offset deal...

The rumour is we're gonna take it. Let's hope.

Wow, directly the 2000 tonner ? That would be big indeed, and Aster-15 capable. I thought your navy was mostly interested in big OPVHs, not in light missile frigates.

cheers

 

[Ragusian]

Wow, directly the 2000 tonner ? That would be big indeed, and Aster-15 capable. I thought your navy was mostly interested in big OPVHs, not in light missile frigates.

Yeah, it surprised us all. But the ships will be used largely in a OPV fashion, that is, they will not have any other weapon(s) than gun(s), but will be able to convert quickly to a fighting role.
But before that, a new class of minehunters will sail probably... around 350-400 tonns, 40 mm gun, possibly two ships, to join the also new korcula class of small minehunters, 3 of them.
Coast guard is also getting their first dedicated vessels soon...

 

[contedicavour]

Yeah, it surprised us all. But the ships will be used largely in a OPV fashion, that is, they will not have any other weapon(s) than gun(s), but will be able to convert quickly to a fighting role.
But before that, a new class of minehunters will sail probably... around 350-400 tonns, 40 mm gun, possibly two ships, to join the also new korcula class of small minehunters, 3 of them.
Coast guard is also getting their first dedicated vessels soon...

Many thanks for the information. According to you, does it make sense to spend on a light frigate if (at least for the first years) no SSMs or SAMs are installed ? True, the ships can be updated, but it seems to me to be a bizarre spending choice :unknown

I remember that you showed on this forum a pic of a small patrol boat - is that the ship type you are referring to for the Coast Guard ?

No more mini-submarine or fast missile boats then ?

cheers

 

[Ragusian]

Many thanks for the information. According to you, does it make sense to spend on a light frigate if (at least for the first years) no SSMs or SAMs are installed ? True, the ships can be updated, but it seems to me to be a bizarre spending choice

I remember that you showed on this forum a pic of a small patrol boat - is that the ship type you are referring to for the Coast Guard ?

No more mini-submarine or fast missile boats then ?

cheers

I don't know if it is wise, but it's better than nothing, don't you agree?

No, mini submarines are gone, fast missiles boats too... The 3 remaining will continue to serve, but for how long, I don't know...I think they'll probably be decomissioned around 2013-2015, considering that by that time their abilities and missions will be replaced by these corvettes, and maybe some other ships... Who knows?

To tell you the thruth, I'm rather dissapointed by the fact that our mini-SSKs will not be replaced. And it's all because of some fancy-schmency report and evaluation done by some french "experts" hired by our goverment.

 

[contedicavour]

I don't know if it is wise, but it's better than nothing, don't you agree?

No, mini submarines are gone, fast missiles boats too... The 3 remaining will continue to serve, but for how long, I don't know...I think they'll probably be decomissioned around 2013-2015, considering that by that time their abilities and missions will be replaced by these corvettes, and maybe some other ships... Who knows?

To tell you the thruth, I'm rather dissapointed by the fact that our mini-SSKs will not be replaced. And it's all because of some fancy-schmency report and evaluation done by some french "experts" hired by our goverment.

Well they just sold their products and your government focused more on the potential offset deal linked to the corvette acquisition programme rather than push indigenous products such as the Velebit.
It's a bit sad, but as you say, it's a lot better than nothing.

cheers