Minelayers

[Waylander]

Hehe.

 

[Ths]

More interesting to the general (in every sense of the word):

I'm a bit surprised that there aren't any big minelayers for the Malacca Strait.

 

[Waylander]

Maybe every country there knows that if they would mine the street the whole might of the USN is crushing up onto them.

 

[Ths]

What's the minelaying capacity of the newer chinese gondolas?

 

[contedicavour]

Maybe every country there knows that if they would mine the street the whole might of the USN is crushing up onto them.

Besides, why kill the golden goose ?
Those economies live off international trade which goes almost entirely by ship... pirates are already enough of a burden. Imagine how much Lloyds would charge ships in the vicinity if there were a mine risk :shudder

cheers

 

[Ths]

Conte di Cavour and Waylander:

This is an interesting point. Showing a strategic weakness in Chinas position.
China is not able to bind areas to themselves by economic means.
The USA is - even without losing their freedom of action.
Germany is - and gains security by limiting thier freedom of action.

 

[Ths]

Waylander: You visited the mineclearing team?

The figure I've heard is there are 60.000 mines in the Baltic - unaccounted for!

1. With so few minelayers it is impressive number.
2. Strangely enough old mustardgas grenades are a bigger problem for the fisheries.
3. Fish are pretty dim. It should be quite safe - for fish - to feed in minefields; but the catching numbers do not indicate that.

 

[contedicavour]

Conte di Cavour and Waylander:

This is an interesting point. Showing a strategic weakness in Chinas position.
China is not able to bind areas to themselves by economic means.
The USA is - even without losing their freedom of action.
Germany is - and gains security by limiting thier freedom of action.

That could be discussed. China is currently doing a lot of diplomacy to bind together African countries who can ship to it oil and a lot of other commodities. China is almost occupying diplomatically the former USSR central Asian republics by building pipelines shipping oil & gas east. China is also very active with the ASEAN countries, hosting several diplomatic gatherings. Last but not least, Chinese companies are buying a lot of foreign (even Western) countries, starting with the Lenovo-IBM deal.

cheers

 

[Waylander]

The numbers they showed to us were really very impressive and it was such a slow process to find an kill the mines.
Finding the mine by using this special mine sonar.
Using a drone or a mine diver to locate it precisely and put some explosives onto it.
And boom.
They are doing this nearly all the year in multi nation task forces sometimes even including russians.

 

[contedicavour]

News : apparently Finland is buying 3 Italian minehunters/sweepers from Intermarine (the company behind Lerici, Gaeta, Huon, Osprey classes).
Any confirmation up there in the Baltic ?

cheers

 

[European]

Link of Intermarine:

http://www.rodriquez.it/intermarine/minehunters.php

 

[contedicavour]

Link of Intermarine:

http://www.rodriquez.it/intermarine/minehunters.php

Yep - though unfortunately the news & press section hasn't been updated since April...

I got the news of the acquisition programme by Finland from parliamentary press in Italy (it's our beloved senator Forcieri who announced the deal)

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

News : apparently Finland is buying 3 Italian minehunters/sweepers from Intermarine (the company behind Lerici, Gaeta, Huon, Osprey classes).
Any confirmation up there in the Baltic ?

cheers

244.8 m € for three of these (see attachment). First vessel in 2010 and last in 2012. Interoperable with EU and NATO but acquired with focus on national use. First two vessels to be built and largely equipped by Sarzana and La Spezia, the last to be equipped by the Aker Yards. Deal includes offsets, transfer of technology and half the life cycle cost to be spent in Finland.

 

[European]

Nice pic

 

[Ths]

Looks like a nice enough hull with a very shallow draught - wouldn't like to sail her outside the Baltic (those extra strake keels are a hint) - but it should do the job.

 

[contedicavour]

244.8 m € for three of these (see attachment). First vessel in 2010 and last in 2012. Interoperable with EU and NATO but acquired with focus on national use. First two vessels to be built and largely equipped by Sarzana and La Spezia, the last to be equipped by the Aker Yards. Deal includes offsets, transfer of technology and half the life cycle cost to be spent in Finland.

Thanks a lot, exactly what I was looking for.
That's a very good news for the friends in the defence establishment around La Spezia !
What is even more positive for us is that Finland is litterally in the backyard of Sweden's defence industry : I would have expected Landsort type MCM ships to be selected.

cheers

 

[Ths]

Proves another point about Swedish defence industry.

 

[Grand Danois]

I found something!

http://www.mil.fi/paaesikunta/artikkelit/2552.dsp#english

Scroll down to the bottom.

Italian Intermarine S.p.A. chosen as supplier of mine countermeasures vessels for the Finnish Navy

By decision of the Minister of Defence of Finland Seppo Kääriäinen the Italian Intermarine S.p.A. has been chosen as the prime contractor with overall responsibility of mine countermeasures vessels for the Finnish Navy. The combat system for the vessels will be supplied by Intermarine S.p.A's German subcontractor Atlas Elektronik GmbH.

Intermarine S.p.A. will deliver three mine countermeasures vessels, a mine countermeasures information system and a life cycle support and maintenance package (spare parts and special tools and test equipment). The price of the procurement contract is 244.8 M€ authorized by the Parliament in the 2006 national budget. The Finnish Navy will receive the first vessel in 2010 and the last one in 2012. Operational readiness will be achieved by 2015.

The aim of the procurement is to provide the Finnish Navy with an operational mine countermeasures capability so that sea lines of national importance can be secured against mine threats. The vessels are primarily being procured for national tasks. The vessels' integrated mine countermeasures systems can be used to support other governmental authorities in for e.g. in mapping the seabed, under water search and identification operations and in the disposal of under water explosives. The vessels will be EU and NATO interoperable, and, therefore, they will improve Finland's possibilities to participate in international crisis management operations.

The procurement includes an obligation for industrial cooperation (offset). This industrial cooperation includes subcontracts as well as transfers of technology and know-how to the Finnish industry. This ensures that the Finnish industry will be capable of working in partnership with the Finnish Navy in the life cycle reparation, maintenance and modernization of the vessels and combat systems.

Intermarine S.p.A. will build and, for the most part, equip the vessels in its dockyards in Sarzana and La Spezia in northern Italy. The third vessel will be partly equipped by Aker Yards Ltd. in Finland. Insta DefSec Ltd. will take part in the development, installation and integration of the combat system. Patria Systems Ltd. plays an important role in the indirect industrial cooperation. Another 20 domestic companies and research institutes will work as Intermarine S.p.A.'s subcontractors. Most of these companies are SMEs. The Finnish work share will be roughly 96 man years. Over 50% of the vessels' total life cycle cost is estimated to stay in Finland.

Intermarine S.p.A. has delivered mine countermeasure vessels to the Italian, Australian and United States navies among other nations. The Atlas Elektronik GmbH mine countermeasures combat system has also been chosen by Sweden, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands.

 

[Ths]

Well they have seen Esbern Snare visiting St. Petersburg - and would like an option when they start spewing mines.

 

[contedicavour]

Very interesting article ! So the 3rd ship will be built in Finland. Fair enough. It's amazing to see how expensive MCM ships can be. 80m euro each, that's as much as a 90-meter 1800 tonne OPVH !

cheers