Marlin AIP SSK

[contedicavour]

Thanks to Euronaval at Bourget (Paris) there are now more accurate data on this Marlin.
First of all, the Marlin is for export only, and is sold separately from Spain, contrary to the Scorpene which is a bi-national product. It could be in competition with the Spanish S80.
75m long, 1850 tonnes, it has a MESMA AIP system almost identical to the one first installed on the Pakistani Hamza (Agosta A90B class).
When the SSK is patrolling it can use its diesel submarines : these are apparently more powerful than those of the U212A class, and are a key selling argument used by the DCN folks.
The only visible external difference with the Scorpene is the St Andrew's cross - like end of the sub ("barres de plongées" in French, if someone can translate this properly ?)
Systems-wise, the Marlin will use SUBTICS integrated combat information system and the same SM39 and torpedoes as the Scorpene.
DCN insists the Marlin is in no way a replacement of the Scorpene, though honestly I'm doubtful...
First order is expected June 2007 from Pakistan.

source : information gathered at Euronaval.

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

ok do you have any information ,on the next generation dcn submarine project called as the sx-21 or something similiar ,i remember seeing a small article about it in the dcn website ,but it was very brief.

by the way according to bharat rakshak ,the indian scorpenes would be slightly different ,they may be constructed of a different type of steel giving them greater operational depth.

 

[contedicavour]

ok do you have any information ,on the next generation dcn submarine project called as the sx-21 or something similiar ,i remember seeing a small article about it in the dcn website ,but it was very brief.

by the way according to bharat rakshak ,the indian scorpenes would be slightly different ,they may be constructed of a different type of steel giving them greater operational depth.

Well I have information on the SMX-23 sub of DCN. It's a small sub, 49 meters long, 860 tonnes, 15knots max speed, can dive to 200 meters max, costs half of the cost of a Scorpene or a U212A, range 1850 miles at 8 knots, autonomy 15 days, can remain underwater for 60 hours max by using its batteries, 19 sailors & officers. Apparently this sub is very silent and is ideal for coastal patrols, especially in noisy environments such as those of big harbours.

cheers

 

[kams]

contedicavour, Thanks for sharing the info. Rosoboronexport had said that they will be displaying some 'stealth' ships in Euronaval. Did you get any chance to see what they have?

 

[contedicavour]

contedicavour, Thanks for sharing the info. Rosoboronexport had said that they will be displaying some 'stealth' ships in Euronaval. Did you get any chance to see what they have?

I haven't seen their stand. Though there has been one amazing new concept of stealth surface ship, the Swordship by DCN, a 5300 tonne, 145 meter long escort ship with 48 VLS cells aft and a 155mm calibre main gun. A sort of halfway between the USN DDG-1000 design and the catamaran version of the LCS.
Here's a picture.

cheers

 

[kams]

I haven't seen their stand. Though there has been one amazing new concept of stealth surface ship, the Swordship by DCN, a 5300 tonne, 145 meter long escort ship with 48 VLS cells aft and a 155mm calibre main gun. A sort of halfway between the USN DDG-1000 design and the catamaran version of the LCS.
Here's a picture.

cheers

Ohh my...that thing looks amazing, right out of a James Bond Movie .

 

[aaaditya]

I haven't seen their stand. Though there has been one amazing new concept of stealth surface ship, the Swordship by DCN, a 5300 tonne, 145 meter long escort ship with 48 VLS cells aft and a 155mm calibre main gun. A sort of halfway between the USN DDG-1000 design and the catamaran version of the LCS.
Here's a picture.

cheers

it actually reminds me of the visby ,particularly the bridge area ,it seems to be a cross between the visby and the zumwalt.

 

[aaaditya]

Well I have information on the SMX-23 sub of DCN. It's a small sub, 49 meters long, 860 tonnes, 15knots max speed, can dive to 200 meters max, costs half of the cost of a Scorpene or a U212A, range 1850 miles at 8 knots, autonomy 15 days, can remain underwater for 60 hours max by using its batteries, 19 sailors & officers. Apparently this sub is very silent and is ideal for coastal patrols, especially in noisy environments such as those of big harbours.

cheers

i thought that it was supposed to be modular .

by the way do you have any information on the russo-italian submarine project to be base on the amur lada project,this submarine is supposed to be modular in construction and scaleable in size and it is to be powered by the italian designed fuel cells(any info on the italian fuel cells would be welcome)also can you find out the status of indian involvement in this project,india was invited to be a partner in that project and were actively studying the project report.

 

[contedicavour]

i thought that it was supposed to be modular .

by the way do you have any information on the russo-italian submarine project to be base on the amur lada project,this submarine is supposed to be modular in construction and scaleable in size and it is to be powered by the italian designed fuel cells(any info on the italian fuel cells would be welcome)also can you find out the status of indian involvement in this project,india was invited to be a partner in that project and were actively studying the project report.

Actually what you wrote is pretty much most of what is public knowledge . I'll go through my sources to see if there is anything more concrete. I remember reading recently of a visit of Fincantieri people to St Petersburg to discuss this project. I'll try to find the article and come back to you.

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

Actually what you wrote is pretty much most of what is public knowledge . I'll go through my sources to see if there is anything more concrete. I remember reading recently of a visit of Fincantieri people to St Petersburg to discuss this project. I'll try to find the article and come back to you.

cheers

also can you find some info about the italian involvement in the indian aircraft carrier project,also it would be realy nice ,if you could post some info and more detailed pictures of the cavour aircraft carrier.

 

[contedicavour]

also can you find some info about the italian involvement in the indian aircraft carrier project,also it would be realy nice ,if you could post some info and more detailed pictures of the cavour aircraft carrier.

Here are 3 pictures of the Cavour, in Oct 2005, in early 2006 and in May 2006. The ship is now completed and about to start sea trials but there isn't a single bloody picture on the net We'll normally get some very soon, or I'll have to go take some myself at La Spezia when I'm there early December.

The ship's characteristics are : 27,700 tonnes, 244 meters long, max speed 29 knots, 835 personnel, autonomy 7000 miles at 16kn. Max load is for 25 jets+helicopters.

The Fincantieri team who is in India is working on the hull design and on the integration of the propulsion system, which should also be based on 4 GE-Avio LM2500 turbines of 22 MW each.

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

I went through the navy and defence industry magazines on the Italian-Russian SSK project. All that it says clearly is that Rubin design bureau is working with Fincantieri on several designs of AIP SSKs ranging from coastal 1000 tonnes to 1800 tonnes. Fincantieri CEO is even saying that one of these designs could be used to replace some of our Sauro III & IV SSKs.

Curiously though the Fincantieri site lists the following characteristics on the smaller version the S-1000 :

S 1000 Submarine

CAPABILITIES

Stealth operation
Long mission time
Reduced crew operation (high integration level of combat system and platform system)
Precise navigation and high steering accuracy
Fully integrated Combat System (CMS, UW sensors, above water sensors, Communications).
Full interoperability with cooperating Units/Head Quarters
Mission adequate Weapons (attack/self defence)

Length overall : 52.00 m
Outlet diameter of pressure hull 5.4 m
Conning tower for divers exit 2x
Surfaced displacement 900 tonnes
Submerged displacement 1000 tonnes
Max diving depth 250 m
One propulsion motor
(Synchronous with permanent magnet field) 1x1.000kW
Convenional Diesel - Generator 1x1.250kW
Fuel cells air independent propulsion system 2x120kW
Battery banks 64 high density double cells 2x
Blades propeller 5x or 7x
Max submerged speed 18 knots
Max A.I.P. speed 5 knots
Transit speed 6 knots
Patrol speed 4 knots
Range patrol (A.I.P.) at 4 knots 1,000 nm
Range transit (Snort + batteries) at 6 knots 2,200 nm
Range patrol (Snort + batteries) at 4 knots 3,200 nm


CREW


Commanding officer and operative crew 4+12
Commando’s chief and troups 6


COMBAT SYSTEM


5 multifuntion CMS consoles, integrating sensors and navigation
Passive sonar suite: cylindrical array, towed array (option), flank array, intercept array, mine avoidance, ONA
Integrated navigation system: echosounder & bathytermograph, 2 x INS, 2 x GPS, 2 x Log, 1 x navigation computer, large screen display
Underwater telephony
Optronic periscope (TV, IR, laser)
ESM
Navigation radar
Integrated internal/external communication system: HF, UHF, VHF, VLF, MF, IFF, SHF (option)
Data communication system
Configurable integrated sail


Integrated Sonar System


High number automatic and simultaneous traking channels for each processing capability (LOFAR, DEMON and BROADBAND)
Flank array sonar: detection of signals in the low frequency, frequency analisys of detected target
Towed array sonar: detection of signals in the very low frequency, frequency analisys of detected target.
Cylindrical array sonar: detection of signals in the medium frequency, DEMON analisys for manoeuvre detection and classification support.
Own noise analisys system: identification of own noise in the frequency time record, own noise suppression support for FAS LOFAR displays.
Intercept Passive Sonar: detection of active signals in the high frequency band, use of the cylindrical Array for high bearing accuracy in the medium frequency.
Mine avoidance sonar: detection of mines, detection of surface contacts.


Weapons


6 FWD torpedo tubes (swim out). Water Ram to be studied.
Capability to menage a combination of up to 6+6: 21 inches (533 mm) wire guided A184 mod3 or blackshark torpedoes, antiship missiles (sub-harpoon), anti-helicopter/light armoured ground targets (understudy)
Bottorn mines
Torpedo countermeasures system (emulator/decoy)


Reason I find this strange is that Italy would take only > 1500 tonne versions of this design ...

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

as i told you the s1000 submarine is modular and hence would be available in sizes ranging from 900 to 2000+ tons.do you have any image of this submarine ,can you please post the link of the fincantieri site?

 

[aaaditya]

Here are 3 pictures of the Cavour, in Oct 2005, in early 2006 and in May 2006. The ship is now completed and about to start sea trials but there isn't a single bloody picture on the net We'll normally get some very soon, or I'll have to go take some myself at La Spezia when I'm there early December.

The ship's characteristics are : 27,700 tonnes, 244 meters long, max speed 29 knots, 835 personnel, autonomy 7000 miles at 16kn. Max load is for 25 jets+helicopters.

The Fincantieri team who is in India is working on the hull design and on the integration of the propulsion system, which should also be based on 4 GE-Avio LM2500 turbines of 22 MW each.

cheers

the cavour looks pretty decent,can you give any information on its weapons fitment,the indian airdefence carrier is expected to have 2 surface to air missile systems ,one on the port and the other on the starboard side,alon with the oto-melara 76mm guns(i believe upto 4 will be provided).

 

[aaaditya]

by the way do you have any information wether the italian designed mine counter measure measure vessels have been selected by the indian navy,indian navy has an initial requirements for upto 8 of these vessels worth about 1.2 billion dollars,last heard the italian design was the favourite ahead of the spanish and the south korean designs.

 

[contedicavour]

the cavour looks pretty decent,can you give any information on its weapons fitment,the indian airdefence carrier is expected to have 2 surface to air missile systems ,one on the port and the other on the starboard side,alon with the oto-melara 76mm guns(i believe upto 4 will be provided).

Cavour has 32 VLS for Aster 15 (30km range) ahead and behind the island superstructure. That's why Cavour carries an EMPAR radar. For closer self defence the ship carries 3 76/62 SR Vulcano systems (those with the guided ammunition designed to intercept incoming missiles). Finally, the Cavour carries 3 25mm systems which are radar guided but mostly intended against enemy attacks on small fast boats.
ASW wise, the ship has the SLAT system to detect torpedoes and a mine avoidance sonar.

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

as i told you the s1000 submarine is modular and hence would be available in sizes ranging from 900 to 2000+ tons.do you have any image of this submarine ,can you please post the link of the fincantieri site?

Yes it is modular, but until very recently the Fincantieri/Rubin commercial effort was on exporting the S1000 as coastal SSKs for countries with relatively small navies.
This move into larger sizes may have been influenced by Indian interest, but so far the Italian Navy was 100% committed to completing the fleet renewal using U212s exclusively.

Fincantieri site is www.fincantieri.com/home.asp - it exists in English but information is limited and there is only one minuscule picture.

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

by the way do you have any information wether the italian designed mine counter measure measure vessels have been selected by the indian navy,indian navy has an initial requirements for upto 8 of these vessels worth about 1.2 billion dollars,last heard the italian design was the favourite ahead of the spanish and the south korean designs.

No unfortunately there is no news whatsoever on this contract in the Italian defence magazines. Are you sure the tender is still active ?
Regarding the South Korean design, it was an unauthorized copy of our Intermarine design... if I remember correctly the copy was so blatant that the issue was handled up to WTO/TRIPS level for breach of IP protocols.

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

contedicavour, Thanks for sharing the info. Rosoboronexport had said that they will be displaying some 'stealth' ships in Euronaval. Did you get any chance to see what they have?

I've found some information on this partially stealth ship : project 20382 "tigr", export version of the 20380 "steregoutchi" building in Severnaya (St Petersburg) in a series of 3 for the Russian Navy.
Characteristics : 2000 tonnes, 104.5 x 13 x 7.8 meters , 28kn, Yakhont SSMs, Shtil VLS and Kashtan CIWS, 4x533mm torpedoes, 1x100mm main gun, helo KA27.

The other ship present in the stand is the project "12300" scorpion FACs, though it doesn't seem to have anything particularly stealthy.

cheers

 

[Mangusta CBT]

The ship is now completed and about to start sea trials

Take the sea in November ? the future India aircraft carrier will be project by Fincantieri ?