Crusader2000
Banned Member
gf0012-aust said:
With many countries currently building LHA/LHD Type Ships. Can we expect to see many nation looking to order STOVL F-35B's?
F/A-22: To Fly High or Get its Wings Clipped
- Thread starter LancerMc
- Start date
With many countries currently building LHA/LHD Type Ships. Can we expect to see many nation looking to order STOVL F-35B's?
Likely customers are Italy and SpainCrusader2000 said:
Current harrier users and potential customers - India and Thailand
Possible customers - Japan. They've had proposals for LHA/Through Deck cruisers on the books for a few years - they just might come to fruition.
Crusader2000
Banned Member
gf0012-aust said:
I've been looking for more information on JMSDF forthcoming 16DDH Class. (i.e. Helicopter Destroyers) Do you know of any web-sites?
Ships of the World: Is an excellent naval reference (only in japanese lang though) - but very expensive. It's fundamentally for ProfessionalsCrusader2000 said:I've been looking for more information on JMSDF forthcoming 16DDH Class. (i.e. Helicopter Destroyers) Do you know of any web-sites?
The largest destroyer ship
The fiscal 2004 defence budget will also give the JSDF (the Japanese Maritime Defence Force, to be more precise) the largest destroyer Japan has ever had since the disappearance of its Imperial Navy.
Projected to be built this year is a 13,500-ton helicopter destroyer (DDH) code-named 16DDH (16 as in the Heisei year), with another planned from next year. The 16DDH in JSDF classification is by no means an aircraft carrier. Its characteristic shape, however, is nothing but.
It is almost as large as the Japanese Imperial Navy's Tone class heavy cruisers. It also matches in size such active aircraft carriers as Italy's MM Giuseppe Garibaldi (10,100 tons) and Spain's Principe de Asturia (17,188 tons).
Its modern aegis capacity with phased array radars, plus its advanced information link connecting both the Cabinet situation room and other weapon systems, also give it what the JSDF thinks will be the crucial node for the BMC3 network. This could be the flagship for the entire JMDF fleet.
JSDF maintains it carries only four helicopters, but in practice, it can carry as many as ten. Not only that, it is not entirely impossible for it to be refurbished to carry Vertical, Short Take-off and Landing (V/STOL) aircraft such as the UK's Harrier and F-36B.
basic info:
The 13,500-ton DDH destroyer will use two propulsion trains, each consisting of two LM2500s in a COmbined Gas turbine And Gas turbine configuration (COGAG), driving a propeller through a gearbox. The engines will each provide 25,000 shaft horsepower.
GE supplied the LM2500 gas turbine kits (assembled by IHI at its Mizuho Plant) April 16 and 17 from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Saturday and Sunday, April 23 and 24 and Kure plants 2005 in Japan. The gas turbine marine modules will be delivered for installation aboard the first destroyer in the second quarter 2007. The 16DDH will be commissioned in the first quarter 2009.
Weapons proposed to date
Mk41VLS / ESSM
CIWS
12.7mm
There are some US military publications that have also done articles - but I haven't seen these in the public domain
Crusader2000
Banned Member
You stated it would carry Phased Array Radars? So, will it be equipped with SPY-1D (F) Aegis Radars like the Kongo Class Aegis Destroyers or another System?gf0012-aust said:
It will be an uprated Aegis and CEC systemCrusader2000 said:You stated it would carry Phased Array Radars? So, will it be equipped with SPY-1D (F) Aegis Radars like the Kongo Class Aegis Destroyers or another System?
Crusader2000
Banned Member
gf0012-aust said:
Sounds like a very capable designs. Especially, combined with ESSM, Aegis, and JSF's................
If the raptor was developed during peace time, they would have built 2000 of them, but the states have spread themselves a little thin. It is a real shame such a brilliant aircraft isnt affordable to countries such as australia, but as i have heard, the maintenance on them is a nightmare. One small chip in the stealth coating and they are down for at least 4 days. People may give the F-111 a hard time, but they are tough and relatively fast to repair.
The RAAFs assessment of the F-22 was mainly an issue of tactical fit. Price was a consideration - but if you read the review of contenders price was not the critical variable.pnl3410 said:
It's one of the fits I was referring to.rossfrb_1 said:
I'm part of a private strategic studies group. one of the people in that group has carriage of ownership to certify the F-22 and JSF for weapons loadouts. I'm trying to find out whether I can post some of his comments made about capability, but it might take a few days.
AD might have the RAAFs assessment handy, I can't find it in my storage box of documented goodies.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #92
The standard load out for a F/A-22 in ground operations will be two 1,000lb JDAM's, two AMRAAM's, and two AIM-9X. Eventually the Raptor will be able to carry 8 Small Diameter bombs, 2 AMRAAM's, and two AIM-9X's. All these weapons in the bays. As far as I know they have not listed the capable ground weapons load out for the Raptor on its hard wing points. Though I would figure it would combine JDAM's or SDB's.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
The report was written by Chief Air Marshal Angus Houston himself (or at least ghost written under his name) and used to be found on ASPI's website (http://www.aspi.org.au/). It might be still available...gf0012-aust said:
I had it but I think I've gotten rid of it. It's a PDF file anyway so I couldn't put up a link for it.
GF is indeed correct, price was but one of many problems with F-22's. Others include a lack of maritime strike capability, lack of EO/IR sensor and laser guidance capability, the difficulty supporting them, etc.
Such capabilities are relatively easily remedied, but would add to the cost of the already most expensive tactical aircraft in history, and the development would delay the entry into service of this aircraft.
RAAF at least is satisfied that JSF will satisfy ALL RAAF requirements, rather than the relatively narrow amount that the F-22 would.
Whether the JSF should be operated as the sole fighter aircraft for the RAAF, is a question many (including I) would like to see the RAAF seriously address however.
As to a de-facto carrier capability, we're getting the flat-tops and presumably a VERY similar fighter aircraft. One can only hope the Government gets the F-35B's too...
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
F-22A Raptor Structural Flaws
"The U.S. Air Force has discovered structural flaws in its most expensive fighter jet"
This was taken from DefenseNews.com, I don't have subscriber access so i do not have more information on this. Does anybody know about this? I will keep looking to see if I can find more details.
Ok this was another article back in March 16th
Lockheed Martin Corp.'s F-22A fighter jet may have a structural flaw that would require redesign or major modifications to most of the planes delivered to date, says Bill Young, chairman of a House defense panel.
Young, a Florida Republican who chairs a House subcommittee on defense spending, said he told Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne that he opposes buying any more of the $338 million planes until the problem is diagnosed and fixed.
The problem involves the aft fuselage, which comes from The Boeing Co., a major partner on the fighter jet. Boeing also supplies the wings for the F-22A. That Boeing work is done mostly at the company's Developmental Center across from Boeing Field in south Seattle.
Both the Air Force and Lockheed agree there's a potential flaw that must be investigated. The Air Force said flight safety is not at issue and no redesign or modification is necessary.
Young, in an interview, said the concern is that an engine casing made of titanium may not meet Air Force standards.
"There's been a specification deviation and they are evaluating it," he said.
"The engine casing is a significant part of the structure of the aircraft," Young said. "If it turns out that it's not being manufactured to specification it could be a serious issue but they don't know the answer yet."
Boeing subcontractors make the titanium parts.
The Air Force, in an e-mailed statement, said Lockheed, the world's largest defense contractor, discovered the "anomaly" in December, the same month the service declared the F-22A ready for combat.
Defesa.net
Is this just dodgy press or is their a real problem, if it is then the USAF is in for a rocky time, no major purchase in the last decade plus has gone smoothly, except the C117 by my reckoning. Problems include JSF, C130J's, K767s.
"The U.S. Air Force has discovered structural flaws in its most expensive fighter jet"
This was taken from DefenseNews.com, I don't have subscriber access so i do not have more information on this. Does anybody know about this? I will keep looking to see if I can find more details.
Ok this was another article back in March 16th
Lockheed Martin Corp.'s F-22A fighter jet may have a structural flaw that would require redesign or major modifications to most of the planes delivered to date, says Bill Young, chairman of a House defense panel.
Young, a Florida Republican who chairs a House subcommittee on defense spending, said he told Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne that he opposes buying any more of the $338 million planes until the problem is diagnosed and fixed.
The problem involves the aft fuselage, which comes from The Boeing Co., a major partner on the fighter jet. Boeing also supplies the wings for the F-22A. That Boeing work is done mostly at the company's Developmental Center across from Boeing Field in south Seattle.
Both the Air Force and Lockheed agree there's a potential flaw that must be investigated. The Air Force said flight safety is not at issue and no redesign or modification is necessary.
Young, in an interview, said the concern is that an engine casing made of titanium may not meet Air Force standards.
"There's been a specification deviation and they are evaluating it," he said.
"The engine casing is a significant part of the structure of the aircraft," Young said. "If it turns out that it's not being manufactured to specification it could be a serious issue but they don't know the answer yet."
Boeing subcontractors make the titanium parts.
The Air Force, in an e-mailed statement, said Lockheed, the world's largest defense contractor, discovered the "anomaly" in December, the same month the service declared the F-22A ready for combat.
Defesa.net
Is this just dodgy press or is their a real problem, if it is then the USAF is in for a rocky time, no major purchase in the last decade plus has gone smoothly, except the C117 by my reckoning. Problems include JSF, C130J's, K767s.
If this is true, then of course it's bad for the Raptor programme, and for the USAF, from the tehnical and military point of view, but the press... oh the press will be all over this subject. So their main concern now would be their image, cause no matter if this is true, an exageration, or completly false, their image will suffer... and I don't know about the US, but here, in Romania, when something like this happens, all the jurnalists instantly become military and aviation experts and they comment on the subject, even though they have no ideea what the hell they're really talking about.
I hope it's not a big problem. I see they are not specific as to what is the problem, but we'll see...:usa
I hope it's not a big problem. I see they are not specific as to what is the problem, but we'll see...:usa
Brutus Caesar
New Member
I guess, as Burner said, the biggest deal will be if the press gets hold of it. I would imagine that, not only could it be pretty bad for the USDF public image, but it would also not look to good to the politicians, especially those looking for any excuse to cut defence funding...
I understand the defect was found as part of the structural testing program - at the latter stages of the full scale fatigue test. There is a reasonable precis on the US Air Force Aim Points page.
Though such arisings are not uncommon and are usually more of a concern for those with little to no experience in matters aerospace, this sort of thing does highlight the need for completing the testing and V&V programs on a design before committing to production. For instance, if such a defect were to arise, say, on the JSF Program, there would be some 450+ aircraft, spread across the two services (USAF and USN) plus over half a dozen partner nations several that would need modification. Is it no wonder the GAO has been expressing concern about this program, given the underachievement of TRLs?
Let's hope this is a timely wake up call for other programs.
Though such arisings are not uncommon and are usually more of a concern for those with little to no experience in matters aerospace, this sort of thing does highlight the need for completing the testing and V&V programs on a design before committing to production. For instance, if such a defect were to arise, say, on the JSF Program, there would be some 450+ aircraft, spread across the two services (USAF and USN) plus over half a dozen partner nations several that would need modification. Is it no wonder the GAO has been expressing concern about this program, given the underachievement of TRLs?
Let's hope this is a timely wake up call for other programs.
RubiconNZ
The Wanderer
Acquisition
I think a worry would be since the Airframes have been so far capped at 183, that any expediture additional to the purchase would severly limit the posibility of more aircraft or perfaps a modest cut of aircraft to fund such purchases, i fear that budget cuts are only about to truly begin...
I think a worry would be since the Airframes have been so far capped at 183, that any expediture additional to the purchase would severly limit the posibility of more aircraft or perfaps a modest cut of aircraft to fund such purchases, i fear that budget cuts are only about to truly begin...
Aussie JSF to outcost F-22s?
Is this true? When Aussie JSFs come into production after 700-900 builds will their JSFs cost more than a final build F-22. Why would US DoD continue the program if this were true? Are these numbers skewed to compare the most expensive JSF build to the cheapest F-22? I can't believe this at this point. Someone shed some light.:shudderOccum said: