T-80 and T-90 MBTs

contedicavour

New Member
How have the T-80 MBTs, the kings of the Cold War on the Soviet Side, evolved since the early '90s ? Is the T-90 operational ?
Which versions are available for export ?

Even if the MBTs are less fashionable today, there are thousands of T-72s or older T-62s and T-54/55s awaiting replacements in the world, even if surely not on a 1 : 1 basis.

cheers
 

extern

New Member
T-80: Some about 1500 T-80 tanks of all modifications is operational in Ru Army now and some 1500 more - are in the storage. The bulk part - is the lastest T-80U mod. Further modernisation and upgrade is planed.

T-90: Less than 300 T-90S are operational just now in RuArmy and about 50 new tanks enter service each year.
 
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Moroz.ru

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Harkonnen(tank.net) said:
History of Soviet tanks – T-72 difference from T-64/ T-80

Maybe this will explain that T-72 was not the only and not the best Soviet tank....

Contrary to the basic believe of the western and even Russian public T-72 is not a development of T-64A (the Soviet Main Battle Tank). T-72 vas development of Ural design bureau experimental tank that lost the competition to T-64 predecessor o. 430. That is why T-72 use the 22 rounds autoloader previously planned for modernized T-62. A completely different drivetrain and different turret.
The T-72 series itself was a “mobilization” tank of the soviet army. It was designed for mass production in war time in huge numbers.

(IMG:http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2483/1406jx.gif)

(IMG:http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7997/1673dp.gif)

T-72 predecessor o. 140 and 167

(IMG:http://img498.imageshack.us/img498/7480/all46562sw.gif)

The most important threads of Soviet tank development before 1966

Basically the first automatic fire control and gun-lunched missile appeared on T-64B in 1976. Then it was installed on T-80. The automatic fire control was never installed on T-72 or it’s versions.
The same story with armor – while the T-64-s and T-80 was equipment with high cost composite armor the T-72 had the simplest possible sand rods and then reflecting plates which were much less valuable than advanced compositions of T-80U …
So the key idea is that T-72 was not the primary Soviet tank, it was exported worldwide to any nation possible. While no T-64 or T-80 was ever exported (After Soviet Union T-80U was exported to ROK, Cyprus and T-80UD to Pakistan)…

(IMG:http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5958/all8le.gif)

The most important threads of Soviet tank development after 1966

FIRE CONTROL

1-st T-72 and T-80/64 were equipped with different guns.
T-80/64 received newest guns much before T-72-variants.

T-64 fire control consists of (basic information)

Targeting complex 1A34
-laser sight 1G42 with block of shot permission 1G43 and tank ballistic computer 1V517.
The AUTOMATIC sensors of entering information are
Heel sensor 1B14
Wind sensor 1B11
relative bearing sensor
tank speed sensor

The following information is entered before combat manually is temperature of the air, type of ammunition batch, atmosphere pressure, charge temperature, air temperature, barrel wear.

In the automatic fire control the correction factor for target range, tank speed, target speed, wind are entered automatically. The gunner just puts the mark on the target and the gun is adjusted automatically to required position, the mark does not change it’s position.


What is T-72B fire control –

The automatic fire control was not installed on T-72.
Instead of ballistic computer the tank is equipped with ballistic corrector.
The correction factor for target range tank speed, target speed, wind are not entered automatically. The wind correction factor is measured “by eye” (until the last serial versions and T-72C).
The gunner puts the mark on the target measures the range with LRF, the mark moves lover depending on range … It requires more time then with automatic FCS.
Another diference of T-72B from T-64/80B is that T-72 can not fire guided missiles while moving…

(IMG:http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/7373/722nc.gif)

placements of fire control elements inside the T-72B combat compartament

1 – executive cylinder of vertical drive VN
2 – Block for entering corrections
3 – guidance block for 9K120
4 – control block
5 – converter for 9K120
6 – electric module of 1A40-1
7 – round
8 – guided missile
9 – block for entering range
10 – horizontal drive GN
12 – electric machine booster
13 – 1K13 sight
14 - 1A40-1 targeting complex
Here is genealogic tree of T-xx tanks:
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/594/all7zr.gif
PS I going to translate this link to English a bit later
 
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SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
Moroz.ru said:
Here is interesting history of Russian/Soviet tanks:
63.99.108.76/forums/index.php?showtopic=14200
link is passive, to activate paste it to brouser adress
line

Here is genealogic tree of T-xx tanks:
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/594/all7zr.gif
Moroz.ru;

I am no mod or an admin, but the rules of forum dnt allow external forum links. Can you extract and modify the information or get it from some where else & repost it here.

The 2nd link is in Russian, can u also edit it with the help of adobe photoshop or MS-Paint. It seems interesting, would like to see it in English.
 

Darrel_topgun

Banned Member
The role of the T-80 & T-90 MBTs

Today, the T-80 and T-90 MBTs are very common in communist contries especially in Russia and PRC (People's Republic of China). PRC is the country with the most tanks in the world, it has a total of 8500 MBTs, 4000 of these or about half of PRC's tank population comprises of both the Russian-designed T-80 and T-90 MBTs. The Chinese did not adopt its original 115mm smoothbore gun but opted for a 105mm rifled-gun from Israeli Defense Industries, known to Americans as the M68. :cool:
 

isthvan

New Member
Darrel_topgun said:
Today, the T-80 and T-90 MBTs are very common in communist contries especially in Russia and PRC (People's Republic of China). PRC is the country with the most tanks in the world, it has a total of 8500 MBTs, 4000 of these or about half of PRC's tank population comprises of both the Russian-designed T-80 and T-90 MBTs. The Chinese did not adopt its original 115mm smoothbore gun but opted for a 105mm rifled-gun from Israeli Defense Industries, known to Americans as the M68. :cool:
Sorry but China does not have T-90. They bought small quantity of T-80 in 1990 but that’s all.
Chinese operate indigenous type 96 and type 99 tanks in elite units(around 2000 ) and older type 59, 69 and 88 as mainstream force…
New type 96 and 99 use 125 mm gun while most of older tanks now use 100mm Russian gun or Chinese copy of 105mm L7 gun…
 

extern

New Member
IMHO, the chineese Type-xx seem to be in basic aspects the development of the T-55/T-62 ideas rather that T-64/72/80/90 line. The havn't got the T-80's level of compaction. On the picture: modernised T-62 (Russia) looks in its dimention pretty close to chinese Type-88/89.
 

Big-E

Banned Member
LancerMc said:
Yes both the T-90 and T-80 use ERA. This is common of all the latest Russian designs.
Does ERA make Russian made tanks more survivable than the uranium armor of the Abrahms? At least against ATGMs? Does ERA in conjunction with infantry make for a deadly mix?
 

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Against ATGMs ERA seems to be very capable and new ERA versions also should work good against older KE rounds. But they have problems with the speed and power of the newest western KE rounds.
The spaced armor of the Abrams is very good against CE warheads and "just" good against modern KEs.

The problem is that new ATGMs like Kornet E come close to the estimated strength of the Abrams frontal armor and are for sure able to penetrate the side, rear or top.

For example the estimated frontal armor of the M1A2 against CE warheads is 1320mm-1620mm RHA. The Kornet E is said to be able to penetrate up to 1200mm RHA maybe a little bit more. I would not want to bet my life on this small difference.

For modern ERA systems it is unimportant how much mm RHA the ATGMs is theoretically able to penetrate because they (Hopefully :D ) destroy or damage the ATGM before it hits the main armor.
 
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Boolag

New Member
Heres a bit of maybe useful history i gleaned from a book about the T80 +T90 a while ago(sorry cant remember name of publication..)
:the companies responsible the producing the above mbts were in direct competition with eachother to secure an outstanding order for the russian army, then along came the 1st chechen war, If i recall the armoured units sent into grozny were equipped with the t80 and suffered heavily from attacks from multi-storey buildings.

The russian military saw this as a design fault rather than poor tactical planning and accordingly chose to back the t90 instead, meanwhile the designers of the t80 improved the surviability of their vehicle as well as a few other adjustments and then marketed it to the ukranian military.

the book also claimed the improved t80 to be a superior mbt the t90...i believe the black eagle tech demonstrator is a development of this design.

Sory the info's a bit sketchy..feel free to correct me if i got anything really incorrect..cheers
 

KGB

New Member
Something in the Chechen war seems to have led the Russians to decide that they didn't want turbine engined tanks anymore. Thus the T-80 lost favor. The T-90's more of un updated T-72, isn't it? Renamed partly for marketing reasons.
 

extern

New Member
KGB said:
Something in the Chechen war seems to have led the Russians to decide that they didn't want turbine engined tanks anymore. Thus the T-80 lost favor. The T-90's more of un updated T-72, isn't it? Renamed partly for marketing reasons.
Turbine engine is just superior for specifically Russian climat condition bcz diesel has a bid problem to start in the temperature below -20 ...-25 celcium. Sometime you need a half hour to heat it before.

However the diesel - is much cheaper, and the last progress in diesel development allow for RuA to save on engine and to spend more on armor and weapon.

Nobody in Russia offers to retire T-80's. Vice versa, this year the program of modernisation for T-80 is started in Omsk.

T-90 - is a mixt design. The chassis, diesel and transmission - is the further development of T-72 line. The weapon and WCS - is of T-80U with some significant improvement (night sight etc). The armor: its welded turret is completely new and different from T-72 or T-80. ERA in first batches is Contact-5 like on the T-80U (not like on T-72), in 2006 batchs seems to be new era blocks of Contact-5, Kaktus or Relikt(?). the design of hull armor is more close to T-80U than to T-72. To note T-72 was the tank for mass production and export and intentionally was downgraded. In contemporally Russia there is no cause for tank mass production, thus the choise had been done with this consideration. Also the russians want to standartise the MBT production around one platform instead of resources wasting 3-platform Soviet structure (T-72, T-64, T-80) with different chassis, engine and armor.
 

Viktor

New Member
Darrel_topgun said:
Today, the T-80 and T-90 MBTs are very common in communist contries especially in Russia and PRC (People's Republic of China). PRC is the country with the most tanks in the world, it has a total of 8500 MBTs, 4000 of these or about half of PRC's tank population comprises of both the Russian-designed T-80 and T-90 MBTs. The Chinese did not adopt its original 115mm smoothbore gun but opted for a 105mm rifled-gun from Israeli Defense Industries, known to Americans as the M68. :cool:
Russian curently operate 12500MBT.
I not sure how mutch US has them but I think Russia is the worlds first power concerning MBT.
 

contedicavour

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Viktor said:
Russian curently operate 12500MBT.
I not sure how mutch US has them but I think Russia is the worlds first power concerning MBT.
Those numbers appear to me huge, unless they include mothballed MBTs that haven't been operational for ages, and unless they include heavy AIFVs.
The only relevant MBTs in the Russian army arsenal are 1800 approx T80s and T90s plus another 1500 reserve T80s.

cheers
 

Viktor

New Member
contedicavour said:
Those numbers appear to me huge, unless they include mothballed MBTs that haven't been operational for ages, and unless they include heavy AIFVs.
The only relevant MBTs in the Russian army arsenal are 1800 approx T80s and T90s plus another 1500 reserve T80s.

cheers
As a matter of fact those are operational numbers - togeather with nonoperational it would be around 22000 tanks.
You are correct about T-80 and T-90 but Russian tank army is reciving upgrade specialy T-72 as it represents major MBT numbers.
During cold war entire Soviet Empire accounted for unbeliveble 60 000 tanks.
Here is a link.
Enjoj while counting . LOL
http://www.warfare.ru/?linkid=2239&catid=239&comd=tk
 

contedicavour

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Viktor said:
As a matter of fact those are operational numbers - togeather with nonoperational it would be around 22000 tanks.
You are correct about T-80 and T-90 but Russian tank army is reciving upgrade specialy T-72 as it represents major MBT numbers.
During cold war entire Soviet Empire accounted for unbeliveble 60 000 tanks.
Here is a link.
Enjoj while counting . LOL
http://www.warfare.ru/?linkid=2239&catid=239&comd=tk
That warfare.ru site is really impressive. Gathering updated data on every single regiment in such a big army is quite an enterprise ! CIA should help pay for it :D .
Thanks for the data. I wonder how many of the operational tanks are really efficient, especially the T72s, but since I don't have anything better to challenge your source, I accept it :)

cheers
 

Viktor

New Member
contedicavour said:
That warfare.ru site is really impressive. Gathering updated data on every single regiment in such a big army is quite an enterprise ! CIA should help pay for it :D .
Thanks for the data. I wonder how many of the operational tanks are really efficient, especially the T72s, but since I don't have anything better to challenge your source, I accept it :)

cheers
Yes author is quite a legend of a man for putting such immense efort and made such database.
By my opinion most extensive database on Russian weapons sistem.

Because of 60 000 tanks rolling down the europe in event of war tactical nuclear warhead had to be produced, AH-64D, Tornado gorund atack plane and Harier.
Im realy impresed how even light tanks like PT-76 can give quite a punch if properly tactis is applied like in Indian-Pakistan wars. And I think PT-76 cant even held out 12.7 machine gun fire. LOL not every tank needs to have 70t.

Since you are Italian guy you might being interest about this. Long before i even started to have interest in military tehnology and weapons I was reading article in our newspaper about some operation Helebrada (dont know did I wrote it correctly - middle age weapon).
So this was Italian operation of pulling out army from Trst in a event of Russian intervention in former Yugoslavia because off unrest and "civil war".
Army suposed to pull out and police to hand over power when Russians arive.
I wonder are you familiar with such operation/plan?
 
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