Australian Army Discussions and Updates

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Stampede

Well-Known Member
The LCM8 was employed for decades both as a ships connector on the Kanimbla Class and also Tobruk. It also had some modifications to aid the vessel for some extended operations.
A small craft at some 22m, I’m wondering if anyone on DT has had some experience with the vessel and its employment.

Cheers S
 
P

Perentie

New Member
Never went OS in an LCM8 but plenty of coastal passages. Sydney to Jervis Bay used to be about 12 hours, not fun in a southerly.
In the scheme of things we havent made a lot progress - 22m LCM-8 fitted one Leopard tank, now we require a 55m to fit one tank (yes I know the Abrams M1A2 is 67t + and a lot beter protected).
Oh and I would expect everything on the new LCM would be nicer though the fuel tank in the lazerette did keep you warm in winter.
 
Takao

Takao

The Bunker Group
old faithful said:
Even 3 LPDs would have been a better choice.
8 of these things.....riiggghhhht.....split up, no doubt, which would be thereasoning behind the numbers, a company lift per ship, lift two Bn groups for littoral deployments.....or a company group to gaurd a FIRES unit, which would be vulnerable to SF ops. Im not convinced that these two classes of ships, aee what is really needed for the ADF.
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Someone very senior got very excited because they worked out that 4x LCHs = 1x LSD in lift

Until we pointed out that:
a - LSD has better C2 facilities
b - LSD has helo capabilities
c - LSD has medical capabilities
d - LSD can transport additional ship-to-shore connectors
e - LSD can go further and be refulled at sea
f - LSD can tackle heavier seas
g - LSD has less crew

I mean, other than all that - sure!
 
W

Wombat000

Well-Known Member
I guess that’s a demonstration of the system working.
The immediately apparent being nuanced by the specialist perspectives of the team.
- It’s encouraging.
 
S

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Takao said:
Someone very senior got very excited because they worked out that 4x LCHs = 1x LSD in lift

Until we pointed out that:
a - LSD has better C2 facilities
b - LSD has helo capabilities
c - LSD has medical capabilities
d - LSD can transport additional ship-to-shore connectors
e - LSD can go further and be refulled at sea
f - LSD can tackle heavier seas
g - LSD has less crew

I mean, other than all that - sure!
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I think you could certainly add to your list of LSD attributes in the comparison.

Cheers S
 
A

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Takao said:
Someone very senior got very excited because they worked out that 4x LCHs = 1x LSD in lift

Until we pointed out that:
a - LSD has better C2 facilities
b - LSD has helo capabilities
c - LSD has medical capabilities
d - LSD can transport additional ship-to-shore connectors
e - LSD can go further and be refulled at sea
f - LSD can tackle heavier seas
g - LSD has less crew

I mean, other than all that - sure!
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Not to mention it’s better armed than half the RAN fleet… :D
 
V

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
No one has done it but an LSD has space weight and stability for a high end air defence system including a deep VLS and ABM capability. It would also be the main target for all sorts of nasties trying to kill the personnel and equipment being transported.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Volkodav said:
No one has done it but an LSD has space weight and stability for a high end air defence system including a deep VLS and ABM capability. It would also be the main target for all sorts of nasties trying to kill the personnel and equipment being transported.
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No one has done it?
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2026/june/qatars-air-defense-lpd-hybrid-al-fulk

As well as her own capabilities, she's designed to work with Qatar's Al Zubarah-class "corvettes", which can carry 16 Aster 30 missiles but lack a long-range radar.
 
V

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I know this may not be the appropriate thread for this, but I have always been a fan of the Danish Absalon Class, as well as the RNs, now cancelled, Multi Role Strike Ship. The Stellar Systems Fearless design was particularly interesting.

If you are transporting high-end, land based assets, within a contested space, it makes sense that the platform being used is survivable.

Add in the investment in drones, the need for MCM, etc. it would make even more sense for these large, valuable assets to be survivable.
 
S

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Volkodav said:
I know this may not be the appropriate thread for this, but I have always been a fan of the Danish Absalon Class, as well as the RNs, now cancelled, Multi Role Strike Ship. The Stellar Systems Fearless design was particularly interesting.

If you are transporting high-end, land based assets, within a contested space, it makes sense that the platform being used is survivable.

Add in the investment in drones, the need for MCM, etc. it would make even more sense for these large, valuable assets to be survivable.
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I like Absalon, but IMO its more of a fast minelayer with a secondary role as a frigate and the capability to carry some troops.

The Fearless is interesting but I wonder if it puts too many things into a single platform. The cost of the platform would impact the number of combatants purchased, but its presumably going to cost a fair bit more than a frigate or destroyer to operate.

Saying that, my pet favourite would be a modernised Invincible class but smaller and removing the fixed wing fast jets.....
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Denmark more or less gave up minelaying when the Absalons were built, & is now reintroducing it via modular systems that can be put on multiple ship classes, including OPVs & coastguard vessels. I don't think it was ever the primary role of Absalon & his brother. IIRC Danish minelaying capability was traditionally deliberately dispersed, so mines could be laid quickly in multiple locations around their islands even while under attack, & concentrating it in two major, long-range, warships doesn't fit that.

Equipped to carry a modular hospital in the flex deck, & the Danish navy has one for that function. Equipped for low intensity operations, including as a command ship - & done that, e.g. against Somali pirates, for which they seem to have been very well suited. Those & other capabilities were designed in, & some have been used.

They were labelled as "flexible" from the start, & their use has reflected that.
 
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A

AmandaHanchett

New Member
On the gap between the investment talk and reality, I'd argue the hardware is only half of it. Personnel has been the bigger constraint for the ADF for a while, with recruiting and retention falling short of targets being well publicised. You can order all the kit you like, but without enough trained soldiers to crew and maintain it, readiness doesn't really improve. It's also worth remembering how long it takes to turn a recruit into a capable soldier, so a shortfall today shows up in unit strength years down the track.
 
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SammyC

Well-Known Member
Reptilia said:


The ex-silveryacts hall (84m L x 44m W x 24m H) as the module fabrication hall? for the LCH.
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It's not big enough for a final assembly, but one would think it is fine for module fabrication.

The articles don't alude to the ex Silveyachts hall at all, so it would not suprise me if this ends up being a new hall built on the CUF.

$250 million buys a reasonable sized shed.
 
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Reptilia

Well-Known Member
SammyC said:
It's not big enough for a final assembly, but one would think it is fine for module fabrication.

The articles don't alude to the ex Silveyachts hall at all, so it would not suprise me if this ends up being a new hall built on the CUF.

$250 million buys a reasonable sized shed.
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Some of the photos say different, Silveryachts hall looks to be the fab shop ftm and then maybe assembly in the cube in the short term.
$245 million probably is for a new module manufacturing facility at the CUF site(next to the cube?), then comes the assembly and fit out halls later on?
 

Attachments

S

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Reptilia said:
Some of the photos say different, Silveryachts hall looks to be the fab shop ftm and then maybe assembly in the cube in the short term.
$245 million probably is for a new module manufacturing facility at the CUF site(next to the cube?), then comes the assembly and fit out halls later on?
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I hadn't seen the photos, they look like they have been taken inside the Silveryachts hall. I don't know why they just did not say that in the media release.

Will need a lot of fit out though. The hall looks completely bare bar the one robot welder.
 
M

MickB

Well-Known Member
AmandaHanchett said:
On the gap between the investment talk and reality, I'd argue the hardware is only half of it. Personnel has been the bigger constraint for the ADF for a while, with recruiting and retention falling short of targets being well publicised. You can order all the kit you like, but without enough trained soldiers to crew and maintain it, readiness doesn't really improve. It's also worth remembering how long it takes to turn a recruit into a capable soldier, so a shortfall today shows up in unit strength years down the track.
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Recruiting has not been about lack of applications but more about slow and poor processing.
The numbers could be there when needed if this is addressed,
 
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