Beltrami2005
Member
Why did Russia invest millions to terrorist groups in Spain?
The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread
Russia is interested in Russian stability this is how it's achieved. I have never said anything about it being a high horse or holy Russia thing it's context they got into this war to prevent Ukraine from being a threat truth is destabilization of Ukraine is a threat it stands to reason the policy will be the same remove that threat. I don't see how the fact one is accomplished with guns and the other with construction equipment makes a difference? The goal is a demilitarized and stable Ukraine that is the Russian goal a buffer state and as far as I know that goal is unchanged
rsemmes
Active Member
How many millions?
What groups?
In what trial was any proof of that presented?
Maybe you are thinking of US investing in the Taliban?
Beltrami2005
Member
Russia invested heavily in the catalanian seperatists. Their leaders admitted after their arrest
rsemmes
Active Member
So, no millions, no groups, no trial. Besides US, you never of countries investing in countries?
Do you know who was investing in Bandera?
Beltrami2005
Member
You are an adult. You can google it yourself. Russia wanted to support a separatist group. Even offered troops in case the split was sucessful, it was so crazy even our unhinged separatists said no. So yes, millions, groups and yes trial.
Russia is an enemy of my country and that act alone is a reason for us to support Ukraine.
Russian group offered Catalan separatist leaders 10,000 soldiers, judge says
Russia actively acted against us and attacked our country with that. We dont forgive that, we dont forget that. Wherever there is trouble in Europe, there is always Russia. So helping neutralizing russian military in Ukraine is absolute in our interest. Remember, each one neutralized is one less they can send to Spain in the future.
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
Imagine thinking Russia would send 10K troops, along with $500B to assist separatists in Spain. I also remember reading that the group to provide this support was claimed to be created during the Gorbachev era. Laughing. But none of it belongs in this thread. (Edit: to provide some evidence for “remember reading”: Russian group offered Catalan separatist leaders 10,000 soldiers, judge says)
A Ukrainian propaganda outlet has some questions about the Flamingo missiles. They ask whether it is a real weapon or “marketing”. Interesting choice of a word for what is known as propaganda.
Not to worry though, because very soon they will be set to fight indefinitely (!) due some uber air-defense interceptors that are, again, produced domestically, to boot!
That would be the new minister of defense. No different from the old, it appears.
i have not read a single post above in its entirety, but noticed there was some talk about Ukraine restoration. On that subject:
www.politico.eu
The obvious vibe from the article is that it will never happen beyond some paperwork and “marketing”.
Also:
Imagine how much continuing the war would cost. Then imagine sourcing the money. Good thing they are going to have those epic interceptors that Fedorov promised, otherwise, they would be in real trouble.
In the meantime, Kellogg is also optimistic (haven’t read in a while, but wonder what Hodges thinks nowadays):
Just to note, it appears they have slightly changed the headline since the screenshot was taken:
www.pravda.com.ua
While his proposition is questionable at best, I wonder what he thinks happens if Ukraine does not survive this winter (it will, in all likelihood). As for the proposition of advantage, what is most likely to happen, in my opinion, after the winter is accelerated Russian advances and lower casualties, more of the same otherwise.
Relevant statistics:
The info is from this article (good read):
www.kyiv-dialogue.org
A thread by Jakub Janovsky (of Oryx) on the current stocks of Russian armour (an opinion piece):
threadreaderapp.com
To note, one of his later comments on the subject:
I have exluded T-64s, T-55s, and T-8OUDs as undesirable because T-55s are trash (and more useful turned into ARVs) and the other 2 dont have a source of critical parts (and their state and number dont justify building up a new spare parts production chain).
Another Ukrainian article talking about some numbers, as well as things that cannot be provided by the EU (would have to use a translate of some kind):
militarnyi.com
Mentioned are Patriot missiles, intelligence, parts for the F-16 aircraft in service, as well as its ammunition, etc. They put this number at $27B for this year. They also say, which I had talked about before, that the EU “loan” only covers two thirds ($90B) of the required military assistance ($145B) in 2026-27. They say the rest depends on the allies to provide the assistance and the US in particular. Rather an optimistic hope, but one also needs to remember that entire Ukrainian budget, like 100% (less some military spending) is financed externally; Ukraine spends 100% of the revenue on its military needs. Luckily, of course, they have those Fedorov interceptors coming soon.
A thread by O’Leary (of Chosen) on Russian better (operational and strategic) use of drones vs Ukrainians (tactical):
threadreaderapp.com
Janovsky’s thoughts on the subject, a reply to Ryan (sorry, only have a twitter link):
My thought: if Ukraine reduces their concentration of strikes on the Russian infantry, they will be simply overrun before they take care of the logistics behind and far behind. It’s a luxury they cannot afford beyond what they are doing now. Of course, I am in my comfortable couch and a layman vs someone actively fighting in Ukraine.
The last thing I will mention is that it appears the talks in the UAE may have been somewhat successful as another meeting is allegedly set for next Sunday. I noticed some commentators expected an energy infrastructure ceasefire, but it would be naive to think that Russians would agree to it right now unless they feel some real progress is made.
Ok, one more thing that I remembered. I see a really increased amount of talk again about Russia running out missiles… again. Am I missing something?
A Ukrainian propaganda outlet has some questions about the Flamingo missiles. They ask whether it is a real weapon or “marketing”. Interesting choice of a word for what is known as propaganda.
Not to worry though, because very soon they will be set to fight indefinitely (!) due some uber air-defense interceptors that are, again, produced domestically, to boot!
That would be the new minister of defense. No different from the old, it appears.
i have not read a single post above in its entirety, but noticed there was some talk about Ukraine restoration. On that subject:
Document reveals EU-US pitch for $800B postwar Ukraine ‘prosperity’ plan
The proposal hinges on a ceasefire that remains elusive while Russian leader Vladimir Putin persists with his full-scale invasion.
www.politico.eu
The obvious vibe from the article is that it will never happen beyond some paperwork and “marketing”.
Also:
Imagine how much continuing the war would cost. Then imagine sourcing the money. Good thing they are going to have those epic interceptors that Fedorov promised, otherwise, they would be in real trouble.
In the meantime, Kellogg is also optimistic (haven’t read in a while, but wonder what Hodges thinks nowadays):
Just to note, it appears they have slightly changed the headline since the screenshot was taken:
Ukraine gains the edge in war if it gets through this winter, former Trump's special envoy for Ukraine says
Former US president's special envoy for Ukraine Keith Kellogg has said that if Ukraine "gets through" this winter, the advantage in the war will be on its side rather than Russia's.
While his proposition is questionable at best, I wonder what he thinks happens if Ukraine does not survive this winter (it will, in all likelihood). As for the proposition of advantage, what is most likely to happen, in my opinion, after the winter is accelerated Russian advances and lower casualties, more of the same otherwise.
Relevant statistics:
The info is from this article (good read):
Ukraine Air War Monitor Vol. XII - Kyiv Dialogue | Kyjiwer Gespräche
Ukraine Air War Monitor Vol. XII is now available in English!
A thread by Jakub Janovsky (of Oryx) on the current stocks of Russian armour (an opinion piece):
Thread by @Rebel44CZ on Thread Reader App
@Rebel44CZ: /thread/ There is an ongoing debate about the current size of the Russian AFV fleet, losses it has taken, new production level storage+reactivation, etc. Here is my take on the topic notes: this is just ...…
threadreaderapp.com
To note, one of his later comments on the subject:
I have exluded T-64s, T-55s, and T-8OUDs as undesirable because T-55s are trash (and more useful turned into ARVs) and the other 2 dont have a source of critical parts (and their state and number dont justify building up a new spare parts production chain).
Another Ukrainian article talking about some numbers, as well as things that cannot be provided by the EU (would have to use a translate of some kind):
Україна потребує поставок озброєнь на 27 млрд поза межами ЄС у 2026 році
Україна у 2026 році потребує масштабних поставок озброєння з-за меж Європейським Союзом — щонайменше $27 мільярдів.
militarnyi.com
Mentioned are Patriot missiles, intelligence, parts for the F-16 aircraft in service, as well as its ammunition, etc. They put this number at $27B for this year. They also say, which I had talked about before, that the EU “loan” only covers two thirds ($90B) of the required military assistance ($145B) in 2026-27. They say the rest depends on the allies to provide the assistance and the US in particular. Rather an optimistic hope, but one also needs to remember that entire Ukrainian budget, like 100% (less some military spending) is financed externally; Ukraine spends 100% of the revenue on its military needs. Luckily, of course, they have those Fedorov interceptors coming soon.
A thread by O’Leary (of Chosen) on Russian better (operational and strategic) use of drones vs Ukrainians (tactical):
Thread by @RyanO_ChosenCoy on Thread Reader App
@RyanO_ChosenCoy: Ukraine is not losing drone warfare tactically. Ukrainian units still kill large numbers of enemy infantry with FPVs daily. Ukraine is losing operationally and strategically because it never define...…
threadreaderapp.com
Janovsky’s thoughts on the subject, a reply to Ryan (sorry, only have a twitter link):
My thought: if Ukraine reduces their concentration of strikes on the Russian infantry, they will be simply overrun before they take care of the logistics behind and far behind. It’s a luxury they cannot afford beyond what they are doing now. Of course, I am in my comfortable couch and a layman vs someone actively fighting in Ukraine.
The last thing I will mention is that it appears the talks in the UAE may have been somewhat successful as another meeting is allegedly set for next Sunday. I noticed some commentators expected an energy infrastructure ceasefire, but it would be naive to think that Russians would agree to it right now unless they feel some real progress is made.
Ok, one more thing that I remembered. I see a really increased amount of talk again about Russia running out missiles… again. Am I missing something?
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
Another thing I remembered, likely related to Fedorov’s uber interceptors:
(link to the tweet: https://x.com/Mylovanov/status/2015155316812382559)
Thing number one: “like Israel of Europe, surrounded by a country that desired to wipe it off the map”. Not sure what to say here. Is Ukraine surrounded by any single country? Perhaps, this is after Russia takes over the entire Europe and they learn speaking Russian in the UK, while Ukraine still stands, of course, and is in the fight.
Thing number two: “Ukraine wanted our software and an opportunity to make a difference snd the right thing”. The quote is wrong and what he said was “… and, part of, if you like, the offer in return, as well as the opportunity to make a difference and do the right thing…”, which is related to the fourth thing.
Thing number three: “it began as an entirely philanthropic endeavor”. Laughing.
Thing number four: “The Al needs to be trained on real data, this library, this data room. Ukraine's is completely unique in the world”. Continue laughing, increasingly.
What the ef are they thinking about in Ukraine?
(link to the tweet: https://x.com/Mylovanov/status/2015155316812382559)
Thing number one: “like Israel of Europe, surrounded by a country that desired to wipe it off the map”. Not sure what to say here. Is Ukraine surrounded by any single country? Perhaps, this is after Russia takes over the entire Europe and they learn speaking Russian in the UK, while Ukraine still stands, of course, and is in the fight.
Thing number two: “Ukraine wanted our software and an opportunity to make a difference snd the right thing”. The quote is wrong and what he said was “… and, part of, if you like, the offer in return, as well as the opportunity to make a difference and do the right thing…”, which is related to the fourth thing.
Thing number three: “it began as an entirely philanthropic endeavor”. Laughing.
Thing number four: “The Al needs to be trained on real data, this library, this data room. Ukraine's is completely unique in the world”. Continue laughing, increasingly.
What the ef are they thinking about in Ukraine?
Beltrami2005
Member
@KipPotapych it absolute belongs in this topic. Russia is a toxic entity and wherever it spreads its malice, trouble starts. Even in Spain they spread their poison. And look, just as we cut their tentacles...the trouble went to zero. The weaker Russia gets, the less trouble it can cause.
Spain trained ukrainians soldiers and also send weapons like Leopard 2 tanks. When this helps to neutralize russian military staff in Ukraine and helps to destroy russian equipment, thats absolute in our interest. Remember russias horrendous birth rate. Each soldier neutralized is a family line that ends. So Russia runs on reserve. Explains why their malice in Europe starts to weaken. No cut cables recently, no sabotage attempts. And whats the biggest indicator...their muppet parties in Europe go silent or start opposing them.
Just few days ago our coast guard was part of the operation that confiscated the russian tanker. The message is clear. The mediterranean is closed for Russia. And soon the baltic sea will be closed too.
There will be no place for russian ships in our waters, there will be no place for russian planes in our skies.
Their fright ships get sunk infront our coast. Their oil tankers get confiscated and the oil taken.
Ukraine bleeds them while we throttle them down.
So @KipPotapych let me ask you, how does the enormous bloodloss of the russian society affects their future?
Spain trained ukrainians soldiers and also send weapons like Leopard 2 tanks. When this helps to neutralize russian military staff in Ukraine and helps to destroy russian equipment, thats absolute in our interest. Remember russias horrendous birth rate. Each soldier neutralized is a family line that ends. So Russia runs on reserve. Explains why their malice in Europe starts to weaken. No cut cables recently, no sabotage attempts. And whats the biggest indicator...their muppet parties in Europe go silent or start opposing them.
Just few days ago our coast guard was part of the operation that confiscated the russian tanker. The message is clear. The mediterranean is closed for Russia. And soon the baltic sea will be closed too.
There will be no place for russian ships in our waters, there will be no place for russian planes in our skies.
Their fright ships get sunk infront our coast. Their oil tankers get confiscated and the oil taken.
Ukraine bleeds them while we throttle them down.
So @KipPotapych let me ask you, how does the enormous bloodloss of the russian society affects their future?
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
Beltrami2005
Member
We i answered your question and provided the source. And yes, clubbing Russia in Europe helps absolute Ukraine. So far now the entire Med is closed for russian ships. The tanker taken by France is oil that Russia cant sell.
Its money that Russia cant use against Ukraine. Taking Russias air away is one of the core pillars in helping Ukraine to get a better position.
Its also important to take our the refinery plants now at greater number.
rsemmes
Active Member
To be honest, he wasn't able to get "Mediterranean countries" right. Now, he provides: "Aguirre says" (said, in 2020) and "No more details on the Russian group were provided."
One country, France, and one ship, but he goes for... "no russian shadow vessel will be allowed to sail the med."
Beltrami2005
Member
Too be honest i get evrything right. One tanker confiscated. One cargo ship sunk. There is no reason why Russia should be allowed in our sea and locking it out is a core interest. Russia is not a med country so there is no reason to allow them in. They can do their shipping from their pacific coast. Any russian ship is free game here.
Russias collapse as a nation state is an important goal and if we can use Ukraine to achieve this, the better.
Russia is weak and can only exist when we allow it. Its time to pull the plug.
Its a new multipolar world amigo. Russia has no cards in our pole.
rsemmes
Active Member
I guess we will just have to wait for for your imparted wisdom.
Beltrami2005
Member
Waiting for my wisdom? Cute. Meanwhile your army's racked up 1.2 million casualties in a 'three-day' war that's still crawling forward like a drunk snail.
rsemmes
Active Member
Facts:
A Russian vessel sunk in 2024, maybe for a terrorist attack. Sorry, are you for or against terrorism? I am a bit confused here. Because if it is not about terrorism but about the terrorism you like, you do understand, and you should be congratulating, anyone carrying out actual terrorists attacks against Spain because they like it.
France intercepts one tanker of that "shadow fleet" in 2026.
And you put them together? Anything happening in planet Nibiru that you would like to add? Like adding one estimate about Russian casualties but not adding any estimate about Ukrainian casualties? The Prestige was a Russian terrorist attack? Ukrainian? Maybe by one of those "groups" you did (not) mention? Do you want to add that one too? I was not in the Mediterranean, but maybe you consider that "your" sea too. Do you want to rewrite Maritime Law too or your "wisdom" on the subject is enough?
Could you remind us how many L2 Spain provided? Nothing to do with that, single, French action, but you added it anyway.
Beltrami2005
Member
That ship carried infrastructure parts to the russian pacifici coast. It shall not use our seaways for that. Acess denied.
There is only one maritime law that matters since the roman empire. Might makes right. We are at a military conflict with russia. In that case the hostile power is not allowed to use our waters. Its simple in WW I the german merchant fleet could also not go through british and french waters, locking them in. Russia is free to block their waters for us to, not that we would use them anyways.
We send 30 Leopard 2 to Ukraine.
I find your humor funny btw that you believe we should allow enemy ships through our waters. Russian oil tankers are not insured, if one fails infront our coast we are cooked. Its our interest to catch them because that reason as well.
As for the one that got caught now, it was a joined operation between France, Spain and UK. Our coast guard reigned it in so it cant escape into moroccan waters. Its the 7th oil tanker captured. It was now redirected to Marseille. Its most likely the oil will be confiscated by EU law and sold on the EU market.
The effect is double, Russia loses a tanker and the free oil drops oil prices on our market even further. Its said the ship carries 750.000 barrels oil, not a bad catch.
That was the intended route:
It was caught the first time when it entered european waters and that at a point where it had no other option.
Now since EU has a new law invoked that allows confiscation of russian oil you know why russia era in the med ended.
rsemmes
Active Member
That's an "interesting" point of view.
It follows that you support Russian invasion of Ukraine. Also, you will support (even if you don't like it) any Russian action against Spain as long as Russia can carry it out. Killing Spanish citizens anywhere in the world, sinking Spanish ships and financing and arming actual terrorist groups acting against Spanish interests will be all good because Russian can do it.
It is a very interesting point of view.
Beltrami2005
Member
The difference is...Russia has no might. Thats why they cant take Ukraine but we can take their ships.
As for your other points, if Russia wants a war with NATO sure it should try that. But lets face reality...Russia is already on the floor and cant afford any new conflicts. They dont even issue statements anymore when their ships are catched. You know why? Because it makes them appear weak.
Russia did plan a few terrorist attacks on european airplanes tho with bombs put in mail. But even their secret service isnt anymore what it used to be. Most of their goons get caught now before damage can be done.
Look amigo...Russia can barely survive this cold war. It definitly does not want that i goes hot.
So now it watchs silently as Europe takes its ships. It cant do anything about it since we have no ships in their waters. And at same time they cant escalate in other fields because they fear the answer. Aeroflot aircrafts are old and not in a good shape.
It follows the new US agenda regarding security. Russia is a annoying but not a threat anymore. Its dwarfed by Europe on all fields with zero chance o dominate us. I aso dont think Putins boss in Beijing would approve further escalation.
Sounds like you have all but the war all but won. Guess you just have to go into Ukraine and mop up the dregs of the Russian state....good luck with that. And go ahead try and seize a Russian military ship or mass cargo ships, there is a difference between carefully acting under a certain threshold and actually provoking action. There is a reason Europe isn't involved in Ukraine with there own armies and it's not Russian weakness.
Tho In all honesty what NATO can do i actuality vs what it can do on paper is definitely a bigger question then it used to be. In a alince of risk adverse members who shoulders the burdens? Who is even willing to?