SolarisKenzo
Well-Known Member
Perhaps something similar to italian air force's King Air?
Germany
- Thread starter gf0012-aust
- Start date
According to Politico, only 8% (6.8 Billion Euros) of a total of 83 billion Euros for 154 defense contracts from September 2025 until December 2026 will be US contracts; the rest is mainly European. The biggest US contracts are Patriot launchers and missiles, and torpedoes for the P-8A planes.
Of course this will vary from year to year; some big ticket US items that are coming in the future are in particular the F-35A jets for the nuclear sharing arrangement; and I am sure there will be others. Is this current drop in spending on US equipment just a coincidence or is it part of a long term trend?
Germany’s €80B rearmament plan sidelines US weapons – POLITICO
Of course this will vary from year to year; some big ticket US items that are coming in the future are in particular the F-35A jets for the nuclear sharing arrangement; and I am sure there will be others. Is this current drop in spending on US equipment just a coincidence or is it part of a long term trend?
Germany’s €80B rearmament plan sidelines US weapons – POLITICO
There seems a change of policy regarding arms sales of Patriot missile systems to Europe
tvpworld.com
Europe though has still been able to purchase some weapon systems from the U.S for Ukraine
Im not sure on the weapons whether they are old stock or something that keeps the arms industry busy
US suspends arms sales to Europe
The U.S. has only about 25% of the missile interceptors needed for its own defense.
tvpworld.com
Im not sure on the weapons whether they are old stock or something that keeps the arms industry busy
Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
Important context.There seems a change of policy regarding arms sales of Patriot missile systems to Europe
Europe though has still been able to purchase some weapon systems from the U.S for UkraineUS suspends arms sales to Europe
The U.S. has only about 25% of the missile interceptors needed for its own defense.
Im not sure on the weapons whether they are old stock or something that keeps the arms industry busy
I don't believe the US will reduce output to established customers, just probably not seek new buyers.
For Patriot?
MBDA started construction on expanding their factories in Schrobenhausen, Bavaria last November for that (colocated with COMLOG's Patriot Missile Facility 3). They'll be producing PAC2 GEM-T there. Planning for that started in 2022, IOC is in 2026, full operations 2027. Offhand so far missiles worth around 5 billion Euro are already ordered from future production there.
Thanks for that.
So, some Patriot missiles will be made in Germany, which is good for supplies in Europe. Patriot's not a single type of missile, though, & the reports from the USA of shortages mention the PAC-3 MSE. I must admit I'm not sure which Patriots some of the European operators have & are buying, though I note that several European countries will be buying PAC2 GEM-T from European production, & some parts will be made elsewhere in Europe.
So, some Patriot missiles will be made in Germany, which is good for supplies in Europe. Patriot's not a single type of missile, though, & the reports from the USA of shortages mention the PAC-3 MSE. I must admit I'm not sure which Patriots some of the European operators have & are buying, though I note that several European countries will be buying PAC2 GEM-T from European production, & some parts will be made elsewhere in Europe.
Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
While European manufacturing seems to deal primarily with PAC-2, it's really the PAC-3 MSE that should be their priority.
Europe is increasingly integrated into the supply chain but it is not manufacturing complete units.
Depending on the scope of European involvement, going to full production could be a small or large leap. But even then the US might pull a significant quantity from there, and it's not going to output in the next couple years anyway in the best case scenario.
While I don't think it'd be smart to reject new customers, I also can't blame the US for prioritizing domestic needs now. Europe had about a decade to get these things sorted.
Some used the opportunity and set up decent IAMD. Now they'll have to look into other suppliers, which are abundant. Including for Patriot equivalents.
Big_Zucchini
Well-Known Member
Israel - Barak, Spyder, David's Sling.
Three systems with roughly equivalent coverage and capabilities, from 2 different manufacturers each with their own chain.
Turkey - Siper.
Still in development but it's a solid tradeoff for European nations that aren't in a rush.
South Korea - M-SAM.
Not sure about its status. I believe an ABM variant could be in service, but even if not, there's potential here and like in Turkey's case this could be accelerated with acquisition funds.
All 3 carry some political weight that might exclude them from exporting to some European nations, but for each European nation there's at least one potential foreign supplier on top of the European offerings.
Launch contract with Arianespace for launch of the two SatComBW Stage 3 satellites on separate Ariane 6 launches has been signed.
6-ton geostationary backbone satellites on Eurostar-Neo bus, 2.1b€ contract with Airbus for operations until up to 2049. The two satellites will replace current ComSatBW 1 and ComSatBW 2 in 2029.
6-ton geostationary backbone satellites on Eurostar-Neo bus, 2.1b€ contract with Airbus for operations until up to 2049. The two satellites will replace current ComSatBW 1 and ComSatBW 2 in 2029.