Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[swerve]

rtic

Article in the telegraph about the Tempest fighter stating it will be very large, payload north of 30 thousand KG and a combat radius of over 1500 miles. Would the RAAF be interested? ‘She’s going to be big’: why Putin should fear Britain’s next fighter jet — The Telegraph.

The article says 'maximum takeoff weight could be “north of 30 tonnes", not payload. A payload that big would imply something bigger than a Vulcan.

 

[Bob53]

rtic

The article says 'maximum takeoff weight could be “north of 30 tonnes", not payload. A payload that big would imply something bigger than a Vulcan.

I was referencing this comment …

 

[Todjaeger]

I was referencing this comment … View attachment 53184

Might want to double check and re-read that comment. I cannot access the original article since it seems to be paywalled for me, but I found similar but not exactly the same commentary in a JP article found here.

I will quote the comment and Bold the section I feel important.

The Tempest will also likely have a maximum takeoff weight over 30 tonnes, compared to the Typhoon's 23 tonnes. "It is going to be in a completely different league to anything we have ever built," Francis Tusa, an independent defence analyst said.

There is a significant difference between stating an aircraft will have a MTOW of 30+ tonnes, vs. claiming a payload capacity of 30+ tonnes.

Given the reference to the EF Typhoon, as near a I can tell, the max payload is around 9,000 kg with an overall Typhoon MTOW of ~23,500 kg.

Again, not being able to see the originally linked article makes it difficult, but I am right now suspecting either typos were involved, or else editors/copyists that had NFI what they were about changing words around without realizing that they would significantly change the meaning.

 

[the road runner]

A B52 Bomber can carry around 32,000 KG worth of bombs. Thats 32 ton approx.. Let that sink in
Anyhow this is a RAAF page.

 

[old faithful]

Strap a himars under each wing of a tempest would give you @32000kg lol

 

[Todjaeger]

A B52 Bomber can carry around 32,000 KG worth of bombs. Thats 32 ton approx.. Let that sink in
Anyhow this is a RAAF page.

Absolutely this is an RAAF thread, though discussion on the potential for additional or alternate aircraft to fill possible RAAF roles makes sense, as would discussion on the potential capabilities for those aircraft.

Having said all that though, something else for people to let sink in. The MTOW for an F-35A is ~29,900 kg or just under 30 tonnes, which then should lead into questions about the capability differences between Tempest and the Lightning II.

 

[Aardvark144]

From the article - 'Based on reports, Tusa says Tempest’s maximum takeoff weight could be “north of 30 tonnes” compared to Typhoon’s 23 tonnes.' Definitely not payload.

 

[StevoJH]

Absolutely this is an RAAF thread, though discussion on the potential for additional or alternate aircraft to fill possible RAAF roles makes sense, as would discussion on the potential capabilities for those aircraft.

Having said all that though, something else for people to let sink in. The MTOW for an F-35A is ~29,900 kg or just under 30 tonnes, which then should lead into questions about the capability differences between Tempest and the Lightning II.

if I had to guess. 20 years of further development of electronic architecture, not being restricted by US ITAR legislation, support of local industry.

The F-35 is a monster of an aircraft, I think people assume it is small because of the single engine. But that single engine puts out more power then both engines on a Typhoon combined.

 

[Morgo]

if I had to guess. 20 years of further development of electronic architecture, not being restricted by US ITAR legislation, support of local industry.

The F-35 is a monster of an aircraft, I think people assume it is small because of the single engine. But that single engine puts out more power then both engines on a Typhoon combined.

Yes to be honest I am struggling to see the massive benefit for the ADF in the Tempest.

If we want something with more range and payload, why not the F15EX? Or the B21, if we’re allowed?

 

[Bob53]

Might want to double check and re-read that comment. I cannot access the original article since it seems to be paywalled for me, but I found similar but not exactly the same commentary in a JP article found here.

I will quote the comment and Bold the section I feel important.



There is a significant difference between stating an aircraft will have a MTOW of 30+ tonnes, vs. claiming a payload capacity of 30+ tonnes.

Given the reference to the EF Typhoon, as near a I can tell, the max payload is around 9,000 kg with an overall Typhoon MTOW of ~23,500 kg.

Again, not being able to see the originally linked article makes it difficult, but I am right now suspecting either typos were involved, or else editors/copyists that had NFI what they were about changing words around without realizing that they would significantly change the meaning.

Looks like it was corrected after I screen shot it. Either way it’s going to have a decent internal capacity keeping its stealth. I think @Morgo mentioned why not F15ex? Probably by the time RAAF is looking for F35 and SHornet replacement there would be a good change the 15EX would be out of production. Also I think from this Tempest would have a lot more range than F15ex. In relation to B21 it’s highly likely to be a LOT cheaper…even if $200 million a copy it’s under half the cost of a B2…. Assuming B21 was available for export.

 

[StevoJH]

Yes to be honest I am struggling to see the massive benefit for the ADF in the Tempest.

If we want something with more range and payload, why not the F15EX? Or the B21, if we’re allowed?

The F-15EX isn’t stealthy which means it has limited survivability over contested airspace. Fairly sure it’s mostly going to ANG units tasked with Air Defense in US service.

B21 is going to be stupidly expensive to purchase and to operate and likely have limited multirole capability.

The RAAF is going to need something to replace the Super Hornets whether that be additional F-35’s, Tempest of the NGAD (if available). The RAAF doesn’t have the luxury of numbers to be able to purchase airframes without full spectrum capability.

Super Hornets were purchased because the RAAF needed a replacement for the F-111 *now* and F-35 wasn’t ready yet.

 

[Bob53]

Might want to double check and re-read that comment. I cannot access the original article since it seems to be paywalled for me, but I found similar but not exactly the same commentary in a JP article found here.

I will quote the comment and Bold the section I feel important.



There is a significant difference between stating an aircraft will have a MTOW of 30+ tonnes, vs. claiming a payload capacity of 30+ tonnes.

Given the reference to the EF Typhoon, as near a I can tell, the max payload is around 9,000 kg with an overall Typhoon MTOW of ~23,500 kg.

Again, not being able to see the originally linked article makes it difficult, but I am right now suspecting either typos were involved, or else editors/copyists that had NFI what they were about changing words around without realizing that they would significantly change the meaning.

That article you linked is almost word for word.

 

[John Fedup]

@StevoJH It is likely there will only be two options in the mid 2030s, the Tempest and F-47, assuming an option superior to the F-35 is desirable. Will a de-rated F-47 be as good as Tempest and cost competitive? Will either be deliverable for Australia quickly enough given the needs of the countries developing these jets. WRT the F-47, will the US actually offer it and will the US survive Trump? China moving on Taiwan this decade changes everything regarding the future.

 

[SammyC]

Do we actually think either aircraft will be available in the 2030's for the RAAF? The F35 first flew as a prototype in 2000 (25 years ago), and our fleet only recently reached its full numbers. I can't see either platform becoming available until the mid 40's at best.

If that is the case then we will be limited to the F35, and progressively upgrading them, possibly transitioning to a super version at best.

Perhaps we need to consider long range drones if we want a strategic aerial strike platform. Surely by the mid 30s we should be able to field some very capable drones.