Russia [Sukhoi] preparing F/A-22 competitor?

[Holt_Allen]

I know a great number of these '22' competitor rumors turn out to be false, however, I decided I might as well post this article in the interest and hope that this one would be true.



Sukhoi F/A-22 competitor

Sukhoi officials boast that their latest aircraft have the same capabilities as American fighters when it comes to hitting air and ground targets, conducting electronic warfare and collecting intelligence.

Not really any solid info and as the article suggests it could just be a ploy for Sukhoi to claim they have the ability (see:funding) to produce such an aircraft. Anyway, I would like to hear the general opinion of the public on this subject.



Holt

 

[highsea]

As you noted, there is nothing of substance in the article to discuss. Until we actually see the Pak-fa, we don't really know what to expect. The common view is that it will be an SU-47 derivative. While they may be able to build a stealthy (or semi-stealthy) airplane, they are still 20 years behind in radar and signal processing technologies, so I don't think they are going to crank out any F-22 equivalents, even if they could get the funding.

They claimed the MiG 1.44 was as stealthy as the F-22 too, but one look proves otherwise. Boxy open inlets, exposed nozzles, no edge alignments, no RA coatings on the canopy, no sawtooth edges on opening panels and covers, etc. And the AC flew for a grand total of 18 minutes.

They don't have the technology for ceramic compressor blades or supercooled turbines, they can't mass produce the MMIC's for AESA, and they don't have the experience in programming the sets that the US has. Even India required western processors for the MKI's Phazo N011M.

It sounds to me that this is just the Russian response to the C4ISR Journal article from last month. IOW, "We can do that too...."

Anyway, browse or search the forum, there are several threads on Russia's 5th Gen fighter programs and Pak-fa. Until we actually see the mockups, there isn't a lot to talk about.

 

[Jetlover]

If Sukhoi are going ahead with this project, are there any indications on what the aircraft will look like? Will it be an upgraded "flanker" or a hybrid design?


Jetlover:australia

 

[Jetlover]

OOPS Sorry I didn't see the reply above mine. I apologize.

I guess I took too long in writing my reply.

Jetlover :australia

 

[highsea]

That's alright Jetlover. Next time, just edit your post- no need to make two posts.

Enjoy!

 

[nz enthusiast]

From memory the first pakfa flight was meant to be late this year, apparently it has been delayed. The air craft was supposibly beinging designed to cost a bit more than an F-35, is meant to have STOVL as standard, and have air combat as its primay task, ground attack second. All three Russian fighter companys are working on the project, mig, su and yak. It is meant to be based around the S-37 (su-47) without the FSW and will take design ideas from the Mig 1.44 and the Yak-141 freestyle.
The problem seems to be in funding for the program with only US$1.5billion going into it (is it each year or is that all they get?). You have to remember though US$1.5bil is worth alot more in Russia than what it is in the US.

 

[Salman78]

F/A-22 competitor ? I dont think so

Russians lag far behind when it comes to next generation fighter aircraft. F-15 designed in the 70's stacks up decently against their Migs and Sukohi's from the 90's. They have no answer to F/A-22.

Its this same race to catch up with american tech that played a major role in soviet demise. Lets not forget that america constantly dragged its F-22 program purely cause it just wasnt needed in the 90's .

If F-22 which won the competition against YF-23 was to put into production in mid or late 90's. USAF would be looking forward towards a 6th generation plane, far far ahead of any tech russians might have, even on paper.

 

[Pedro]

First of all sukuoi developed the first vector engine like the one that f22 uses secondary they equipment in the mig´s was far better concerning gun aim rather then the poorly unmatched 20mm cannons of the F-15 then there is the Mikoyan 1-42 and the 1-44 go check it on the internet they are technology demonstrators aswell the sukhoi s-37 and there´s even a replacement for mig-31 the Mikoyan 701 so go learn more about military aircrafts will you

 

[nz enthusiast]

Yes the Russians are behind in many areas, but they have this special capability to catch up-from 1920 to 1950 they went from being a largely peasant society to one which had the atomic bomb and was starting to look at space travel. So I don't see much that is stopping them from doing the same now. The mig1.44 and the su-47 (s-37) have shown that they do have the basics for stealth and five generation performance. All that matters now is the funding so the Russians can do their work.

mod edit: highsea: comments deleted. The topic is Russian F-22 competitor. Leave the rants and flame baiting out of it.

 

[highsea]

Pedro, the US has been working with TVC since the mid-80's. F-18 HARV, F-16 MATV, X-31, F-15 ACTIVE.

In any case, the topic here is Russian F-22 competitor. If you guys can't discuss this in a civil fashion, the thread will be locked. If you wish to discuss F-15's or SU-27's, open a thread. NZ Enthusiast, if you want to bash Americans, take it to Global Talk.

Carry on.

 

[Salman78]

Yes the Russians are behind in many areas, but they have this special capability to catch up-from 1920 to 1950 they went from being a largely peasant society to one which had the atomic bomb and was starting to look at space travel. So I don't see much that is stopping them from doing the same now. The mig1.44 and the su-47 (s-37) have shown that they do have the basics for stealth and five generation performance. All that matters now is the funding so the Russians can do their work.

mod edit: highsea: comments deleted. The topic is Russian F-22 competitor. Leave the rants and flame baiting out of it.

Russians certainly do NOT have the capability to catch up with western technology. The one and only reason they almost caught up with west in terms of Engine technology is because of this well documented and proven fact. Russian aircraft designer Mikayon visited UK in mid-late 1940's and played a game of poker with a bet that if his british host (CEO of rolls royce) loses then they will deliver a brand new rolls royece jet engine to Mig's plant. As fate had it the russian designer won . Thats how they laid their hands on top noch engine tech.

AL-31F lags behind F-119 of prat & whitney and it wud be quite some time before russians can do any catching up.

Its my observation and firm belief that russians have almost always progressed in the wrong direction. One such example is their development of super manuverable jets which carry little edge over current BVR env. Even top-gun graduate US fighter pilots are taught to avoid a dog fight at all cost.

Just what are the chances of an F-16/15/14/18/22/35 carrying 2/4/6+ AMRAAM's getting in a dog fight with a SU-27/30/33/37 etc carrying Adders ?
Little or none at all. Either one or both of them would be long dead.

If S-37 has basics for stealth ?????? then X-47 would be stealthier.
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/x-29-EC87-0182.jpg

Even the mighty Mig-31 got whipped by an F-16 firing a single AIM-120. Bottom line... who can deny the F-16's 44-0 Kill to loss ratio and F15's 100-0 kill to loss ratio. Get real

 

[backfire]

Russia is sais to be working on a fifth gen aicraft called the PAK-FA and also there is some news of Russia and India working togther on the project, but i can't confirm it.

 

[pawa_k2001]

Russia is sais to be working on a fifth gen aicraft called the PAK-FA and also there is some news of Russia and India working togther on the project, but i can't confirm it.

Yes, Russia is working on a 5th generation aircraft. It is supposed to start its flying in 2006-2007. It should be in production by 2010 or so. India also is working with Russia but some problems have come up.

mod edit: highsea: off topic comments deleted. The subject is Russian aircraft, not nuclear weapons.

 

[ashblackhawk]

India also is working with Russia but some problems have come up.

I think not even indian prime minister know the fact that there are some problems. How do you know about the problems ? fortuneteller !!!

 

[nz enthusiast]

From what i know, The infromation about India being involved in the PAKFA project is just speculation. Most people seem to think that just because India has mig 29s they will work on the PAKFA. Maybe some like highsea or aussie digger know a bit more.

 

[highsea]

There have been several "announcements" from Government sources about Indian participation in the Pak-fa, dating back to about 2003. As yet, there is nothing regarding actual investment or specific areas of participation.

Sukhoi says the design is finalized and a mockup is built, but there are no public pictures. The early descriptions were that it is to be based on the SU-47 with conventional wings. Until we see the mockup, we don't know.

The first prototype was supposed to fly in 2004, then 2005, now they are saying by the end of 2006.

My sense is that India is holding back until the prototype flies. Supposedly a team of Indian engineers has been in Russia working with Sukhoi, but I have seen no real confirmation on that.

All we can do is wait for more news.

 

[backfire]

Yes, Russia is working on a 5th generation aircraft. It is supposed to start its flying in 2006-2007. It should be in production by 2010 or so. India also is working with Russia but some problems have come up.

Thanks a lot for the info.
By 2010-15 MkI production in India will also near completion, you think India will buy a substantial number of these, if ever.

 

[Saxon-Thor_74]

Russians certainly do NOT have the capability to catch up with western technology. The one and only reason they almost caught up with west in terms of Engine technology is because of this well documented and proven fact. Russian aircraft designer Mikayon visited UK in mid-late 1940's and played a game of poker with a bet that if his british host (CEO of rolls royce) loses then they will deliver a brand new rolls royece jet engine to Mig's plant. As fate had it the russian designer won . Thats how they laid their hands on top noch engine tech.

AL-31F lags behind F-119 of prat & whitney and it wud be quite some time before russians can do any catching up.

Its my observation and firm belief that russians have almost always progressed in the wrong direction. One such example is their development of super manuverable jets which carry little edge over current BVR env. Even top-gun graduate US fighter pilots are taught to avoid a dog fight at all cost.

Just what are the chances of an F-16/15/14/18/22/35 carrying 2/4/6+ AMRAAM's getting in a dog fight with a SU-27/30/33/37 etc carrying Adders ?
Little or none at all. Either one or both of them would be long dead.

If S-37 has basics for stealth ?????? then X-47 would be stealthier.
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/x-29-EC87-0182.jpg

Even the mighty Mig-31 got whipped by an F-16 firing a single AIM-120. Bottom line... who can deny the F-16's 44-0 Kill to loss ratio and F15's 100-0 kill to loss ratio. Get real

"Yes the kill ratio is impressive at first note, but it's not always necessarily the plane, but the pilot, and support apparatus (AWACS, Hawkeye). Please also note, several of these kills are Israeli pilots, whom are very highly trained, vs. Arab pilots which receive little, or substandard training. It is true Russian planes typically are a generation behind in technology, but that will make little difference if our leaders cap the production of F22's @ 175 planes. Our defense production policy seems to be going the way of counter-insurgent and anti-asymmetrical warfare technology (long loiter, precision munitions placement), with the F-22 program being the casualty."

 

[zeven]

From what i know, The infromation about India being involved in the PAKFA project is just speculation. Most people seem to think that just because India has mig 29s they will work on the PAKFA. Maybe some like highsea or aussie digger know a bit more.

India is infact a partner of the PAK-FA, Russia invited Brasil too.

China as well, but China declined. because they thought they had the ability to develop a platform with similar or even better capabilties.

As we all know, China is working on a new design, (i would never call it a 5gen just because they say it has stealth characteristics tho)

 

[Feanor]

Please don't necropost. Check the dates. This thread is ancient, and the info in it is out of date. Closed.