I would not envisage air to air combat if it could be avoided except for against long range aircraft such as military transports which could initiate an airborne invasion of NZ if we don't have an air combat ability.
Not in our case as the aircraft simply become ways of delivering the weapons, you will note that the F15 and F16 are still in production having entered service in the 1970's the weapons themselves are what do not stand the test of time.
As a small nation we will never have the capacity to cover this hole region, what is this fixation on air to air combat?
That is the very point, as first of all you need to defend NZ as your first priority and if you can deny access locally this is achievable.
The limited number of naval units we could ever deploy will never have a great influence over such a vast area as the abilities are very localised in a small area around the ship it self and the ship can only change its area of operation in a relatively slow pace, meaning that it will inevitably be at the wrong place at the wrong time to provide effective area defence for NZ.
How $ frigates is going to achieve all this and have any chance of surviving is beyond me, Maybe a full size US carrier strike group would be capable. For instance protecting Ohakea which is a significant distance from the coast and the frigate would have to stand a significant distance of shore, plus the need to rotate the frigates for reprovisioning, maintenance and resting the crew would take up all 4 frigates and probably be ineffective due to distance. this would leave none for any other tasks. Modern frigates can be very capable and I think 4 is a good idea however they are a small bubble of capability in a vast ocean.
As I have said before our first priority is to defend NZ, this is what any countries first priority is for their defence force.
In a time of conflict any strike force we had should be dispersed out of Ohakea as the Sweden does with its air force as Ohakea is an an obvious target. they even use straight roads etc to achieve this leaving the enemy with to many possible targets to attack all. Unfortunately this is not possible with the P8 as the only runways suitable for it are Auckland and Christchurch international and to a lesser extent Ohakea which due to the cancelled runway extension is not long enough for max weigh operations this would make them very vulnerable to being taken out in the absence of a ACF.
If you leave a weakness for your enemy to exploit, they will do so, and leaving the country open to airborne invasion is doing just that as all they need to do is take over an airfield and they can fly in what they want in numbers that we could not stand against.
Hi Rob. Thank you for your interest in this subject. Let me go through your points one by one.
I would not envisage air to air combat if it could be avoided except for against long range aircraft such as military transports which could initiate an airborne invasion of NZ if we don't have an air combat ability.
As shown in Russia's failed invasion of Ukraine, ground troops based at airports can defeat military transports attempting an airborne invasion. Likewise Combat Frigates on guard near Auckland or Wellington airport can likewise easily take out lumbering military transports. Training up an entire Air Combat Force on the off chance of having to shoot down invading air transports is a huge expense for little realistic use.
aircraft simply become ways of delivering the weapons, you will note that the F15 and F16 are still in production having entered service in the 1970's the weapons themselves are what do not stand the test of time.
I agree with you that the platform is not what is important it is the weapon system. If you are concerned about enemy transports bringing in airborne troops can our P8s be fitted with air to air weapons?
As a small nation we will never have the capacity to cover this hole region, what is this fixation on air to air combat?
That was my point before, I don't have a fixation on air to air combat, I was responding to T.C.P.'s 1st March post on Ireland building a fighter wing from scratch. My view is that a fighter wing is not needed and that money should be spent on combat frigates. I'd add that four modern combat frigates (Mogami class?), with helicopters and drones, supported by P-8s are flexible enough to cover wherever we need in the Realm of New Zealand, but a fighter wing would be so short ranged and tied to an airbase as to present a huge vulnerability and liability.
The limited number of naval units we could ever deploy will never have a great influence over such a vast area as the abilities are very localised in a small area around the ship it self and the ship can only change its area of operation in a relatively slow pace, meaning that it will inevitably be at the wrong place at the wrong time to provide effective area defence for NZ.
20 knots over 24 hours is some 500nm of flexibility. A frigate off shore of the North Island could protect Auckland, Ohakea, or Wellington as required. Enemy ships, tracked by satellite, or our P-8s, allow our navy to intercept or reposition to block as required. They are moving at the same speed as our ships, and when defensive we have the interior lanes of communication to move on, allowing for us to optimize positioning.
Modern frigates can be very capable and I think 4 is a good idea...
Yes we are in agreement here. Navy more, frigates four.
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however they are a small bubble of capability in a vast ocean.
In this I'd beg to disagree drones now provide warships with a huge ISR bubble around them. For example a drone with a hundred nm radius can provide an intelligence bubble of 31,500 square nm square bubble around the warship, a 200nm radius drone a 125,000 square nm bubble.
all they need to do is take over an airfield and they can fly in what they want in numbers that we could not stand against.
If this is the concern, its not gambling on hugely expensive fighters intercepting transports that defeats an airborne invasion, its garrisoned airfields with ground troops that as in Ukraine, slaughter arriving airborne troops...
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