John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Possible availability via AUKUS I suppose but the unit price will almost certainly be 2.5-3.5 x higher.
Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates
Aardvark144
Active Member
Secretary of the Air Force at the time publicly mentioned that the US was more than willing to work with Australia in acquiring the capability; however, that was before the DSR.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Obviously will depend on Trump’s successor since the USAF will have priority for the next 4 years at least.
Tempest announcements would seem to be able meet requirements of patrolling large areas of Pacific and Indian ocean
www.twz.com
I'm not sure if the current plans for next generation fighters will survive the incoming bean counters of the U.S
www.twz.com
www.popularmechanics.com
UK Emphasizes Need To Arm Tempest Stealth Fighter With Larger, Longer Range Air-To-Air Missiles
Giving the Tempest ‘bigger sticks’ is seen as critical to keeping pace with adversary developments, particularly the rapid pace of China’s airpower evolution. Giving the Tempest ‘bigger sticks’ is seen as critical to keeping pace with adversary developments, particularly the rapid pace of...
www.twz.com
$20 Billion Price Tag To Complete Development Of USAF's Next Generation Fighter (Updated)
Investing more in long-range strike, procuring a cheaper 'drone controller' aircraft, or a mix of F-35s and drones are alternatives.
www.twz.com
America Scrapped Plans for Its Secret Stealth Fighter—But Has Something Even More Fearsome in the Works
A new plane with new tech is necessary to dominate current and future Russian and Chinese fighters, top officials say.
www.popularmechanics.com
InterestedParty
Active Member
I am not sure if it the bean counters that are of concern
If Elon Must wants the F-35 cancelled and he is as influential as is thought then I wouldn't be confident of the 6th gen fighter development
Killing the F-35 is a semi-popular trope, even used by people who end up buying F-35s. F-35 isn't going anywhere, there is 1000 of them and more orders coming. They can't kill it even if they wanted. They are 20+ years too late.
Future US 6th gen platforms are another thing. Navy looks to be getting one, but beyond that who knows. Same with the B21.. Until orders are places and FOC is seen, very much crystal balling.
UK and Japan (and italy) have a bit of their own issue. They want to keep their industries alive, but F-35 doesn't really do that for them. They also have lots of legacy fighters to be replaced and their own munitions. Their requirements are a bit different. Longer range is of huge interest to each of them either as islands or peninsular. Having something bigger, more sovereign and longer ranged than the F-35 would be genuinely useful for them. So something like a fighter shaped bomber is interesting.
Broadly multirole fighter concept, but with bomber type range. Agility isn't so important anymore for this type of role, but speed is still useful either for dash (which is viable if you have huge internal stores just to outrun) or giving weapons more kinetic energy. Replacing Strike eagles in that kind of concept. There would be others, Singapore, Korea, Saudis, Australia etc.
The B21 is a great plane, but I think it's a bit too focused as a strategic bomber for Australia. We really want something with maritime capabilities with bombing and self escorting functions.
Something that could handle internal AIM-174B would be killer for hunting big slow but valuable air targets at tremendous range. If it could internal that, it could internal significant air to ground weaponry. Internal LRASM would make it a very formidable maritime aircraft. It would also make for a good air patrol aircraft with long range and wide weapon capability. But those are big missiles, not in service with any of those air forces.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Agree, the F-35 is here to stay despite on-going TR3 and block 4 issues. The biggest F-35 problem IMHO is range. This is a concern for Asia-Pacific allies and the US, but perhaps not so much for Euro users.
It is unfortunate AETP didn’t move forward for the A and C versions. The addition cooling and power output needed would have been accomplished but more importantly the 30% increase in range would have been significant.
NGAD and GCAP might introduce several new advantages but the biggest advance is going to range.
It is unfortunate AETP didn’t move forward for the A and C versions. The addition cooling and power output needed would have been accomplished but more importantly the 30% increase in range would have been significant.
NGAD and GCAP might introduce several new advantages but the biggest advance is going to range.
He has to persuade about 220 congress people and at least 50 senators, maybe 60 depending on their filibuster rules. Wonder how many of them have Lockheed Martin plants and subcontractors in their districts?
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
A cancellation would upset JSF partner nations and other export customers as well albeit Trump likely wouldn't care.
Depends on the European user. The UK's air defence zone is very much bigger than the land area. It's mostly sea, with some islands, just like Japan. Some other peripheral European countries have similar concerns to lesser degrees.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Unfortunately for the UK, the AETP was considered a bridge too far for the F-35-B and to a much lesser extent the F-35C. Given the larger fleet of F-35As, AETP seems like a better alternative than the enhanced F135 engine given the performance advantages but perhaps the time for delivery was a factor. A generation ago, the USA could have easily funded both alternatives.
It makes UK need pretty big, as the only 5th gen fighter they have is the F-35B, which is shortranged, while carrier capable, also has limited internal carry. Which is the same problem Japan has. The F-35 isn't their mainstay fighter, its a niche capability based around forward basing and ships. Same with italy although they have some F-35A.
MARKMILES77
Well-Known Member
Here's some more information including possible numbers and unit tail markings.
armyrecognition.com
Royal Australian Air Force's Gulfstream MC-55A Peregrine Begins Test Flights
Royal Australian Air Force's Gulfstream MC-55A Peregrine Begins Test Flights
armyrecognition.com
DOGE may simply say enough of the cost over runs… do it his way and get results.Tempest announcements would seem to be able meet requirements of patrolling large areas of Pacific and Indian ocean
I'm not sure if the current plans for next generation fighters will survive the incoming bean counters of the U.SUK Emphasizes Need To Arm Tempest Stealth Fighter With Larger, Longer Range Air-To-Air Missiles
Giving the Tempest ‘bigger sticks’ is seen as critical to keeping pace with adversary developments, particularly the rapid pace of China’s airpower evolution. Giving the Tempest ‘bigger sticks’ is seen as critical to keeping pace with adversary developments, particularly the rapid pace of...
$20 Billion Price Tag To Complete Development Of USAF's Next Generation Fighter (Updated)
Investing more in long-range strike, procuring a cheaper 'drone controller' aircraft, or a mix of F-35s and drones are alternatives.America Scrapped Plans for Its Secret Stealth Fighter—But Has Something Even More Fearsome in the Works
A new plane with new tech is necessary to dominate current and future Russian and Chinese fighters, top officials say.
With the Collins class lote on the road to rack and ruin! And the dismissal for B21 to bridge the gap of long range stealth strike should we look to acquire the 12-24 of the latest upgraded B-1Bs that are now being replaced by the B-21? They are long range bomb trucks that have proven themselves recently as excellent maritime bombers! I know they are getting on but the new upgrade versions will still have 10-15 years life in them and would bridge the gap till nuclear subs are in numbers, and the gap till the RAAF finds replacement for Super Hornets.. what’s peoples thoughts? They wouldnt cost a thing but given away by the US.. with all parts and equipment to support! I’d love to see a small squadron of 12 that could be used a deterrent specially across the pacific
Super Hornet is expected to remain in service until at least 2030, and I'm pretty sure 2035. They'll still be well under 30 years old by then.
All B-1s are expected to be retired by 2036, apparently. Orphan design from the late 70s. No commonality. No upgrade path. No.
Also, what upgrades? Haven't read anything myself?
We're not going backwards here. GCAP looks promising, if light for a bomber (like the Super Hornet). B-21 might be an option. It's production will be in full swing by the early 30s.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #9,758
Note the bolded text, relevant to my question. What have you been smoking/ingesting/imbibing?
Thinking that the US (under the current POTUS especially) would 'give away' long-ranged strategic strike platforms, even ones that might be getting retired from US service is mind-boggling. Just from a cost/value perspective, the US would not just give away such potentially valuable platforms. Any such sale or transfer to Australia would also need DSCA/US State Dept approval, as well as Congressional approval. Yes, all this could be arranged (theoretically at least) but to have all this done without Australia spending significant coin is IMO unrealistic at best.
FormerDirtDart
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I felt inclined to stop myself from replying earlier this morning, prior to my morning coffee. At that time I felt that any reply I managed to type might get me at least suspended, if not banned
B1's are on the way out. They are now at the very edge of their service lives and are going to cost crazy, crazy money to keep operational, even if they do no flight hours and are just theoretically capable. B1's are much more expensive to operate than F111's, and the B1s are going to be used heavily while B52 upgrades and B21 comes on line. They will be completely knackered. And unlike the B52 which is a simple solid old frame they can just bolt airliner engines as a bomb truck, the B1 is crazy complex and crazy unique and has been underfunded for a long time. They aren't really suitable as an orphaned fleet operations in Australia.
We will have B52's based out of Australia.
5 Fast Facts On The B-1 Lancer's BEAST Upgrades
The B-1 is receiving its BEAST upgrades as fast as possible and these will keep it lethal into the 2040s.
simpleflying.com
- Link16
- IFF
- EW/decoys
- Avionics
- Computing, networking and storage.
If we are interested in a long range offensive platform, Tempest would be it. Its looking more like a modern day stealthy, more capable F-111. Rumored weapon bays may be able to internally carry multiple Aim174b, LRASM-ER, or maybe TLAM or/and a whole lot of smaller stuff. Fast enough to out run other long range munitions/decoys as well. While not cheap, we could probably afford a 12-24 of these, so proper squadron. UK/JP could also base same aircraft here.
This type of aircraft could escort E7s or P8s or KC30. They could do maritime/land strike. They could go after opposing team tankers/AWACs/transports.
I don't know what the RAAF isn't all over it.