Argentina Air Force News and Discussion

[swerve]

Yes, from what I've read the NATO consortium F-16s have pushed life extensions a hell of a long way. I can't judge it's accuracy, of course, but I've read that they couldn't be flown hard for long, & even with gentle use probably have only a fairly short life.

 

[koxinga]

So Argentina got ex Denmark F-16, seems there's enough 2nd hand F-16 ex Euro that's not going to Ukrainian. I remember certain MinDef official from certain ASEAN country that say no 2nd hand F-16 available, as all 2nd hand F-16 available (especially ex NATO that's been done MLU upgrade) slote for Ukrainian.

They got approval / no objections from the US on the possible transfer of ex-Danish F-16s (Blk 10/15). But whether they have the funds (USD 338 million) is not clear, since the budget documents in 2024 suggest no such budget exist.

The Argentinian Defense Ministry is presenting a fait accompli to the civilian government that "hey, the US has approved this, if you don't pony up the cash, it will make us look bad" situation.

 

[StobieWan]

I'm definitely thinking that buying a jet trainer brand new would have been a better idea. Any Danish or Netherlands F16's would be on their dog-ends - fine for transfer to Ukraine, where attrition is likely within a few months but as a working core for an air force like Argentina ? I hope they buy plenty of spares with the package.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Choosing trainers like L39NG or T-50 is indeed a much better idea, but Argentina just has the bad luck that most Western/Asian US-allies made jet trainers contains British made ejection seats. The original L39 had the Czech-built VS-1 ejection seat, but i don't know about the L-39NG.

For Martin-Baker free content Argentina is perhaps forced to buy chinese or Russian jet trainers.

 

[koxinga]

Choosing trainers like L39NG or T-50 is indeed a much better idea, but Argentina just has the bad luck that most Western/Asian US-allies made jet trainers contains British made ejection seats. The original L39 had the Czech-built VS-1 ejection seat, but i don't know about the L-39NG.

For Martin-Baker free content Argentina is perhaps forced to buy chinese or Russian jet trainers.

The requirement is to fufill an air sovereignty / QRA need across the country, which will require a supersonic platform. The L39NG /turbofan will not fit this role due to the subsonic nature and it is somewhat similar to their own IA-63 Pampa.

Reportedly, the reasons for not favoring the JF-17 is because the dual seater is Block 2, while the single seater is Block 3, and they were concerned about maintaining different versions. There is not a lot of choices for them, even if they had the budget.

 

[StobieWan]

I was about to suggest the Korean T50 but I checked and they are also infected with the Martin Baker virus of export controls. Damn our cunning imperial long-game is good

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The requirement is to fufill an air sovereignty / QRA need across the country, which will require a supersonic platform. The L39NG /turbofan will not fit this role due to the subsonic nature and it is somewhat similar to their own IA-63 Pampa.

Reportedly, the reasons for not favoring the JF-17 is because the dual seater is Block 2, while the single seater is Block 3, and they were concerned about maintaining different versions. There is not a lot of choices for them, even if they had the budget.

As far as i know, Martin-Baker PK16LE ejection seats are installed in the JF-17.

I was about to suggest the Korean T50 but I checked and they are also infected with the Martin Baker virus of export controls. Damn our cunning imperial long-game is good

Big chance that the AIDC T-5 also has the Martin-Baker disease... how about the Boeing/Saab T-7?

The HESA Yasin is maybe Martin-Baker free... but then its better to stay with the IA-63 Pampa.

 

[koxinga]

As far as i know, Martin-Baker PK16LE ejection seats are installed in the JF-17.

The Chinese has a full range of domestic ejection seats, so replacing and certifiying them isn't a problem.

The Indians claim to be replacing the Martin Bakers on their Tejas with Russian seats. American engine, Indian airframe/avionics, Russian ejector seats. Not exactly the maintainable mix for an Airforce with budget issues and a small fleet.

 

[koxinga]

The F-16 deal is still in motion. However, even if the deal was signed, it still depends on Argentina funding it. Alot can happen before the first planes hit the tarmac.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1771208561072259330

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1771187723220467873

Further information on the composition of the deal. The willingness of the US to offer the sale of JHMC, 9X, 120Ds and pods are a surprise. Even the Egyptians do have not such generous terms from Uncle Sam.

The contract with Denmark, for 338 million dollars, includes 24 aircraft in flying condition, a disassembled F-16 Block 10 aircraft for training ground personnel, eight spare engines, target designation and reconnaissance pods, equipment electronic warfare, helmets with Joint helmet mounted cueing system (JHMCS), tools, spare parts, personnel training and other equipment.

If the planned schedule is maintained, this year the specimen would be delivered for ground training and in 2025 four two-seaters and two single-seaters would arrive in Argentina, to be followed by six single-seaters in 2026, another two and the remaining two-seaters in 2027 and the last six single-seaters in 2028.

On the other hand, progress is expected in the signing of a contract for 312 million dollars with the United States government for weapons, which includes AIM-9X Sidewinder missiles, AIM-120D AMRAAM and air-surface weapons and pods that the Air Force Argentina has asked

Mientras se espera la aprobación final de los fondos, la Argentina avanza en la negociación por los F-16

En estos días, el Ministerio de Defensa de Argentina se encuentra en la recta final para cerrar la compra de los 24 F-16A/B Block 15 Fighting Falcon (más un Block 10 para usar en instrucción en tierra), aunque aún se espera la aprobación final del presupuesto para la firma del contrato. La...

www.pucara.org

 

[koxinga]

The Letter of Intent has been signed (26 March 2024), with the contract to be finalised on the 15 April 2024.

To questions whether Argentina can afford it, well, they can't, but Uncle Sam is footing most of the bill.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772697582218662186

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The first F-16 Fighting Falcons are planned for arrival in 2025, and will be assigned to Grupo Aéreo 6 de Caza (G6C) at Tandil Air Base in the Buenos Aires Province.

I expected that the new fighters wil replace the A-4AR Skyhawks but it seems the F-16s will replace the IA-63 Pampa II and Pampa III.

Argentine Air Force Fighting Falcon sighted

Argentine Air Force Fighting Falcon sighted On 16 April 2024, a Fuerza Aérea Argentina (FAA, Argentine Air Force) F-16BM Fighting Falcon was sighted at Skrydstrup Air Base (Denmark...

www.scramble.nl

 

[koxinga]

I expected that the new fighters wil replace the A-4AR Skyhawks but it seems the F-16s will replace the IA-63 Pampa II and Pampa III.

What the statement means is Grupo Aéreo 6 de Caza (G6C) will be converted/reequipped to operate F-16s. The IA-63 Pampa II and Pampa III are probably going to another squadron.

The F-16s are indeed meant to replace the Fightinghawks, which has low availability anyway.

 

[Redlands18]

Argentina – Basler BT-67 Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency (dsca.mil)
Basler BT-67 - Wikipedia
And the DC-3/C-47 family is still being purchased for Military service. Arguably the most important aircraft in aviation history.

 

[koxinga]

DSCA notice on the munitions and other supporting equipment to be acquired by Argentina.

Argentina – F-16 Aircraft Equipment and Support | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

WASHINGTON, October 30, 2024 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Argentina of F-16 Aircraft Equipment and Support and related elements of logistics and program support for an estimated cost of $941 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of Argentina has requested to buy equipment and services to support twenty-four (24) F-16 Block 10/15 aircraft procured through third-party transfer. These items include: thirty-six (36) AIM-120 C-8 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM); two (2) AIM-120 C-8 AMRAAM guidance sections; one hundred two (102) MK-82 500lb general purpose bombs; fifty (50) MXU-650 air foil groups for 500lb GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bombs; one hundred two (102) FMU-152A/B joint programmable fuzes with FZU-63A/B fuze systems; and fifty (50) computer control groups MAU-169L/B. The following non-MDE items will also be included: weapons and weapons support equipment; explosive charges, devices, propellants, and components; AN/ARC-238 radios; Joint Mission Planning Systems (JMPS); FMU-169D/B inert fuzes; Ground Support System (GSS) for Link-16; KY-58M and KIV-78 cryptographic devices, AN/PYQ-10 Simple Key Loaders (SKL), communications security (COMSEC) cables, and other COMSEC devices and equipment; cartridges, chaffs, and flares; practical explosive ordinance disposal system trainer; avionics support; communications equipment; precision navigation; Computer Program Identification Numbers (CPINS); electronic warfare database support; major and minor modifications and maintenance support; aircraft components, parts, and accessories; instruments and lab equipment; spare parts, consumables and accessories, and repair and return support; classified and unclassified software delivery and support; classified and unclassified publications and technical documentation; personnel training and training equipment; clothing, textiles, and individual equipment; jet fuel; aircraft ferry, aerial refueling, and transportation support; studies and surveys; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $941 million.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

DSCA notice on the munitions and other supporting equipment to be acquired by Argentina.

Argentina – F-16 Aircraft Equipment and Support | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

I wonder when the first F-16s will be delivered to Argentina. After
April, there we no more updates.

Argentina's First F-16 Breaks Cover

Argentina Signed Deal to acquire 24 F-16s from Denmark. The F-16 will replace the obsolete A-4R Fightinghawk, with first deliveries expected later this

theaviationist.com

 

[koxinga]

The plan is for the first F-16 (training unit) to be delivered in Dec 2024. Deliveries for the rest will come starting 2025, in group of six.

 

[Redshift]

The plan is for the first F-16 (training unit) to be delivered in Dec 2024. Deliveries for the rest will come starting 2025, in group of six.

Do Argentina even have any enemies threatening them?

For that matter do any South American countries (apart from Guyana/Venezuela) have any state enemies threatening them?

It's a curious part of the world, lots of internal problems but maybe not so many external ones?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Do Argentina even have any enemies threatening them?

For that matter do any South American countries (apart from Guyana/Venezuela) have any state enemies threatening them?

It's a curious part of the world, lots of internal problems but maybe not so many external ones?

I think it is also against drugs smuggling flights, transportation of illegal goods/immigrants and violation of airspace.

Maybe light fighters like M-346, T-50 and Yak-130 are enough for this role, but those aircrafts will give Argentina Martin-Baker and CAATSA problems.

 

[koxinga]

For that matter do any South American countries (apart from Guyana/Venezuela) have any state enemies threatening them?

There are territorial disputes amongst South Amercian countries, some of them active, some in the backburner. There are also regional rivaries. Not everything has to be some Great power/ideological disputes.

I know it well; worked with one particular South American government and I used the wrong map (in their view) in one of my presentations with the borders on the wrong side. Let's just say they had some choice words for me.

 

[koxinga]

The plan is for the first F-16 (training unit) to be delivered in Dec 2024. Deliveries for the rest will come starting 2025, in group of six.

The first (non-flyable training, Blk10) F-16 is on the way.

El Hércules TC-66 ya está regresando a la Argentina transportando el primer F-16 de la Fuerza Aérea

A través de una reciente publicación del Ministerio de Defensa, ha sido confirmado que el primer caza F-16 de la Fuerza Aérea Argentina ya se encuentra

www.zona-militar.com