Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force Thread

[Musashi_kenshin]

I think these are the replacements for the Burke derivatives, Kongo and Atago classes. Which are getting quite long in the Tooth, Kongo is 31yo.

Since the Kongo-class, Japan has ordered two air-defence destroyers at a time. Are they really planning to replace the Atago class at the same time? Atago is less than 20 years old.

 

[swerve]

Indeed. The four Kongos were commissioned 1993-98. Atago & Ashigara were commissioned 2007-8. Given how the JMSDF usually operates, I'd expect the new ships to replace the four Kongos, & maybe a future updated subtype to replace the Atagos.

 

[Salinger]

Replacement for the Murasame class

 

[Redlands18]

delete

 

[swerve]

Replacement for the Murasame class

Except the Murasame class was designed mainly for ASW operations, originally with just 16 Sea Sparrow. 13DDX is supposed to have a much greater emphasis on AAW. It looks to be a high-end AAW ship. There are also the 12 new FFM to be built instead of the last 10 Mogamis. They appear to be an enlarged Mogami with enhanced AAW capability, which would appear to be a better fit for a Murasame replacement.

Leaves me wondering what the plan is.

 

[Ananda]

Japan’s MoD Unveils Latest Image of ASEV - Naval News

In its latest defense white paper, the Japanese Ministry of Defense has unveiled the latest image of the ASEV with some explanations.

www.navalnews.com

More detail on Japan ASEV which basically Cruiser in the name of Destroyer. This is Japan answer for Chinese Type 55 which have similarities in size. Basically modified Maya Aegis Destroyer with 128 VLS (64 and 64) compare to Maya 96 VLS (64 and 32). 190m vs 170m in Maya.

 

[Salinger]

I am not sure if this is actually correct.
13DDX is a class of destroyer planned by the Maritime Self-Defense Force. It will have a significantly enhanced network compared to conventional destroyers, and will emphasize sustainability to enable distributed maritime operations (DMO), superior information warfare, unmanned systems, anti-underwater and anti-air capabilities, and logistics maintenance to accommodate new forms of warfare that are expected to include drones, hypersonic gliders, and more.
If the MSDF is to promote DMO, we feel that the old anti-submarine and fleet air defense ships will not be built.

 

[Salinger]

Maritime Self-Defense Force to Create Tentatively Named “Surface Fleet,” Reorganizing the Defender Fleet, Minesweeping Squadrons, etc.

海上自衛隊、仮称「水上艦隊」を新編へ 護衛艦隊、掃海隊群等を再編 | フネコ - Funeco

防衛省は2024年8月30日(金)、令和7年度予算の概算要求の概要を公表した。この中で、今後計画している自衛隊組織編成の改編についても明らかにされ、海上自衛隊に仮称「水上艦隊」を新編する方針が示された。 新たに編成される仮称「水上艦隊」は、

funeco.jp

On Friday, August 30, 2024, the Ministry of Defense released an outline of its budget request for fiscal 2025. The Ministry of Defense also announced its plan to reorganize the Self-Defense Forces, and announced its policy to establish a new provisional “Seaplane Fleet” in the Maritime Self-Defense Force.

The new “Surface Fleet” will be organized for the purpose of establishing a unified command and supervision system for surface ship units such as convoys and minesweepers under the control of the Self-Defense Fleet. As a result, the conventional framework of convoys and minesweepers will be reorganized, and organizations such as the “Surface Operations Group,” “Amphibious Warfare Minesweepers,” and “Patrol and Defense Group” will be formed under the control of the Surface Fleet.

 

[Salinger]

Japan to add Tomahawk launch capability to Aegis Chokai

イージス艦「ちょうかい」にトマホークの発射機能を付加へ＝防衛省

防衛省は米国製巡航ミサイル「トマホーク」の発射機能を、海上自衛隊のイージス艦「ちょうかい」から付加する方針を固めたという。時事通信が報じた。

sputniknews.jp

The Ministry of Defence has decided to add the ability to launch the US-made Tomahawk cruise missile from the Maritime Self-Defence Force's Aegis Chokai. Jiji Press reported.
The Ministry of Defence has allocated 1.8 billion yen in its budget request for 2025, and the refurbishment of the first Aegis Chokai with a counterattack capability will go ahead.
The refurbishment will take place at the Sasebo base (Nagasaki Prefecture) and is scheduled to be completed by the end of FY25. The Ministry has decided to bring forward the acquisition of Tomahawk by one year, and it has been pointed out that after the refit, the ship may be acquired during FY25 for live-fire testing in the US.
The Ministry of Defence will sequentially upgrade eight Aegis ships deployed at Yokosuka (Kanagawa Prefecture), Maizuru (Kyoto Prefecture) and Sasebo bases. Tomahawks are launched from the waters around Japan and are within range of North Korea and China. In the event that the right of collective self-defence is invoked, it may be coordinated with US Aegis vessels.

 

[swerve]

Chokai is the newest of the four Kongo class, commissioned 1998.

 

[Salinger]

Contract signed for the construction of Aegis system-equipped vessels
【お知らせ】イージス・システム搭載艦の建造契約締結について
In developing ships equipped with the Aegis system, in addition to the SM-6, which has the capability to deal with HGVs (*), etc. at the terminal stage, various warfare and mobility capabilities equivalent or superior to those of existing Aegis ships will be maintained. In addition, the design must be resilient to upheaval and expandable to accommodate future equipment, including Type 12 surface-to-ship guided missile capability and anti-HGV interceptor missiles.

 

[John Fedup]

Some further information on the two ASEV ships. Interesting that two vendors will build one ship each. Assume quick delivery is the reason. These ships will have SPY7 radars. As per the article, it will be interesting to see which radar is selected for future destroyers, SPY6 or SPY7.

Japan MoD signs contracts to build two ASEVs with MHI and JMU - Naval News

On September 18, 2024, the Japanese Ministry of Defense announced that it has signed contracts to build two Aegis System Equipped Vessels (ASEV) for the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Japan Marine United, separately.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The Government of Japan has requested to buy up to 212 RIM-116E Rolling Airframe Missiles Block 2B and related equipment for an estimated cost of $360 million. As far as i know only the Izumo Class of LHDs and the 30FFM Mogami Class vessels have the SeaRAM on board, but i don't know how many RIM-116 missiles Japan already has.

Japan – Rolling Airframe Missile Block 2B Tactical Missiles | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

 

[StingrayOZ]

The Government of Japan has requested to buy up to 212 RIM-116E Rolling Airframe Missiles Block 2B and related equipment for an estimated cost of $360 million. As far as i know only the Izumo Class of LHDs and the 30FFM Mogami Class vessels have the SeaRAM on board, but i don't know how many RIM-116 missiles Japan already has.

Japan – Rolling Airframe Missile Block 2B Tactical Missiles | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

Ten launchers worth.. new mogamis?
Rumor has it three ships will start construction in 2025.
Many long lead items will need to be ordered now, because of the fairly frantic build rate.

 

[koxinga]

The Government of Japan has requested to buy up to 212 RIM-116E Rolling Airframe Missiles Block 2B and related equipment for an estimated cost of $360 million. As far as i know only the Izumo Class of LHDs and the 30FFM Mogami Class vessels have the SeaRAM on board, but i don't know how many RIM-116 missiles Japan already has.

Japan – Rolling Airframe Missile Block 2B Tactical Missiles | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

Given the volumes which JMSDF are buying these Rolling Airframe Missiles, it is unusual that they have not considered (publicly anyway) to have a domestic version. They already have all the necessary components with the Type 11 .

So far, their ship to air missile program comes under the Type 23 missile program, which is more of a ESSM type capability with the 03 missile.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Ten launchers worth.. new mogamis?
Rumor has it three ships will start construction in 2025.
Many long lead items will need to be ordered now, because of the fairly frantic build rate.

Big chance this batch is indeed for the new Mogami's.

Given the volumes which JMSDF are buying these Rolling Airframe Missiles, it is unusual that they have not considered (publicly anyway) to have a domestic version. They already have all the necessary components with the Type 11 .

So far, their ship to air missile program comes under the Type 23 missile program, which is more of a ESSM type capability with the 03 missile.

The RIM-116 is in size and range between the Type-93 and Type 81/11.
If they need hundreds of RAMs, they can build it under licence, make something similar which is compatible with the launchers, or design a whole new indigenous CIWS/Short Range Air Defence Missile System which can be installed in new vessels and retrofitted on existing ships.

 

[swerve]

Ten launchers worth.. new mogamis?
Rumor has it three ships will start construction in 2025.
Many long lead items will need to be ordered now, because of the fairly frantic build rate.

Ten launchers worth, but that doesn't necessarily mean ten launchers. Six Mogamis have been commissioned so far with one SeaRam, plus one very close to commissioning, & two Izumo class with two SeaRam launchers each. That's ten SeaRam in service with another one almost there. But they're SeaRam, with 11 missiles each, not launchers with 21 missiles.

I've found three earlier purchases of RIM-116:
51 in 2020
44 in March 2023
63 in November 2023
Total 158

That was enough to fill all the launchers of the ships building at the time, plus a few spares. I expect they'd want reloads, though, & would use some in training. The latest order may be meant to fill the launchers of new ships, plus reloads.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Ten launchers worth, but that doesn't necessarily mean ten launchers. Six Mogamis have been commissioned so far with one SeaRam, plus one very close to commissioning, & two Izumo class with two SeaRam launchers each. That's ten SeaRam in service with another one almost there. But they're SeaRam, with 11 missiles each, not 21 missile launchers.

Japanese orders tend to occur in smaller amounts and more frequently than other nations. As you have shown. Sometimes you can account for where pretty much things are going. I like to try to read the tealeaves on their stuff.

Yeh, the Izumos are Searam. So could be for those. I thought that those were already fitted with previous ordered stuff. But maybe not, and maybe the want to slowly increase their reload stockpile. With the Izumos, they may have reloads on ship like the Americans do.

 

[koxinga]

... in smaller amounts and more frequently than other nations.

Which is a reasonable and sound approach from a stockpiling perspective, IMO. A single, large order means the entire batch would face block time-expiry at some point in the future. By staggering the purchases, the time expiry will be spread out over the decade. It makes inspection, recertification and refurbishment more economical and sustainable.

 

[John Fedup]

Which is a reasonable and sound approach from a stockpiling perspective, IMO. A single, large order means the entire batch would face block time-expiry at some point in the future. By staggering the purchases, the time expiry will be spread out over the decade. It makes inspection, recertification and refurbishment more economical and sustainable.

Agree but I guess big orders realistically don’t get delivered all at once given the production rate for various missiles so even big orders willl consist of batches with different expiry dates.