PRC Peoples Liberation Army Navy

[Ananda]

This photo circulating in Chinese online media and even deino X. This shown China JL-9 LIFT carrier version, doing what seems touch and go trial either in Liaoning or Shandong. Interesting in white and red colour's, similar to USN T-45 Goshawk.

Shown PLAN preparation on carrier aerial platforms operation evolve now not only on Fighter, Helicopters, AEW and COD, but also trainers. PLAN shown trend that already surpass Soviet Red Navy on carrier operations. PLAN do need times to catch up in carrier operations proficiency. Question now, whether they can speed up that learning curve.

 

[Ananda]

x.com

x.com

Deino X account put photo originally circulate on Chinese Weibo of the Mockup J-15 and J-35 aboard Fujian. With Fujian already in sea trial condition, seems the mockup being put to prepared Fujian crew on handling them on the flight deck.

 

[Ananda]

Clearer video on Fujian, from the latest sea trials. With China claim as largest non nuclear carrier in the World. They might claim the EMALS work well, even without Nuclear power. Still have to be seem, as they haven't done EMALS trials yet.

 

[Ananda]

US Coast Guard patrol spots Chinese naval ships off Alaska island

Officials say a U.S. Coast Guard cutter on routine patrol in the Bering Sea came across several Chinese military ships in international waters but within the U.S. exclusive economic zone.

apnews.com

Chinese seems more and more flexing it's naval muscle near US backyard. Now they are 'testing' US response toward freedom on navigation on International water but US EEZ. Seems PLAN shown USCG and USN, "I can do what you did in SCS and Taiwan Strait".

 

[Redshift]

US Coast Guard patrol spots Chinese naval ships off Alaska island

Officials say a U.S. Coast Guard cutter on routine patrol in the Bering Sea came across several Chinese military ships in international waters but within the U.S. exclusive economic zone.

apnews.com

Chinese seems more and more flexing it's naval muscle near US backyard. Now they are 'testing' US response toward freedom on navigation on International water but US EEZ. Seems PLAN shown USCG and USN, "I can do what you did in SCS and Taiwan Strait".

It's not quite the same though is it?

Nobody in the USA shouted and demanded that the Chinese ships leave immediately, nobody in the USA called it s provocation, nobody used dangerous manoeuvers, instead they responded like this

“The Chinese naval presence operated in accordance with international rules and norms,” said Rear Adm. Megan Dean, Seventeenth Coast Guard District commander.

That is a great deal different to the way China behaves in similar circumstances.

 

[Ananda]

The Chinese vessels told the Coast Guard their purpose for being there was “freedom of navigation operations.”

not quite the same though is it?

Read the objective that PLAN put to USCG above. They are playing the similar line that USN say to PLAN or Chinese CG in SCS. For that there's similarities in purpose. Whether US reaction tone will be different or not, is secondary on their purpose.

Their purpose is to shown they (PLAN) increasingly have blue water capabilities and they can sail in US backyard too. Thus the similarities are the purpose of 'freedom of navigation' shown off.

 

[Redshift]

Read the objective that PLAN put to USCG above. They are playing the similar line that USN say to PLAN or Chinese CG in SCS. For that there's similarities in purpose. Whether US reaction tone will be different or not, is secondary on their purpose.

Their purpose is to shown they (PLAN) increasingly have blue water capabilities and they can sail in US backyard too. Thus the similarities are the purpose of 'freedom of navigation' shown off.

So what?

The USA clearly acknowledged that China has done nothing wrong whereas China constantly accuses all others of outrageous propaganda and assault upon China when they simply traverse international waters?

 

[Redshift]

Sim

So what?

The USA clearly acknowledged that China has done nothing wrong whereas China constantly accuses all others of outrageous propaganda and assault upon China when they simply traverse international waters?

Simply put the USA does not care that the PLAN do what they do, whereas China erupts in rage when anyone else refused to accept their demands.

 

[Redshift]

Sim

Simply put the USA does not care that the PLAN do what they do, whereas China erupts in rage when anyone else refused to accept their demands.

Also sailing up along their own coast and the arusdian coast to the baring straight is hardly a "blue water" feat of strength, I for one welcome a China CSG off the coast of the UK.

 

[Ananda]

Simply put the USA does not care that the PLAN do what they do, whereas China erupts in rage when anyone else refused to accept their demands

So ? what's your point. I already put what PLAN official objective. You don't like it, it's up to you. You want to believe USA doesn't care on what China do, is also your own interpretation. Clearly when USCG put official announcement, means US care, but if you want to believe otherwise, your choice.

PLAN clear intention is to shown the US they can do what US done. Don't have to be like by everyone.

 

[Redshift]

So ? what's your point. I already put what PLAN official objective. You don't like it, it's up to you. You want to believe USA doesn't care on what China do, is also your own interpretation. Clearly when USCG put official announcement, means US care, but if you want to believe otherwise, your choice.

PLAN clear intention is to shown the US they can do what US done. Don't have to be like by everyone.

No, it's just an indication of how much more professional the USA are than China and shows how they respect the international laws of freedom of navigation.

The USA made no attempt to impede the Chinese warships whereas China makes every effort to stop and berate others in waters closer to their home.

 

[Redshift]

No, it's just an indication of how much more professional the USA are than China and shows how they respect the international laws of freedom of navigation.

The USA made no attempt to impede the Chinese warships whereas China makes every effort to stop and berate others in waters closer to their home.

By "don't care" I really meant "have no intention to interfere"

 

[Ananda]

it's just an indication of how much more professional the USA are than China and shows how they respect the international laws of freedom of navigation.

If China already done hundreds of times as USN already done in China backyard, and US still doing cooler reaction, then it is can be said USA done much more professionaly. This is just begining stage of China encroachment in US backyard waters. Time will tell if US will still done cooler approach on this fleet encroachment when happen much more times and much closer to US waters.

Cause whether done by China-Russia, or US-Allies, it is all the same fleet force shown off. All similar force diplomacy.

 

[Redshift]

If China already done hundreds of times as USN already done in China backyard, and US still doing cooler reaction, then it is can be said USA done much more professionaly. This is just begining stage of China encroachment in US backyard waters. Time will tell if US will still done cooler approach on this fleet encroachment when happen much more times and much closer to US waters.

Cause whether done by China-Russia, or US-Allies, it is all the same fleet force shown off. All similar force diplomacy.

But it is in a internationally recognised waterway where China have every right to pass so why would the USA get offended?

It would be like the UK or France shouting and screaming everything a Russian warship passes through the English channel, we don't because they every right to do do.

The Chinese fleet can sail up and down the English channel, that is there right.

Freedom of navigation is a right and where it exists it should not be impeded.

China does not respect that right in so many places.

 

[Ananda]

China does not respect that right in so many places

China behavior is always politically motivated. Recently they are aiming and harress Philippines much more then the other ASEAN neighbors. Because they see Philippines as US lackey. They are conducting agreesive shadowing on US and Allies Warships but not others they are deemed not close Allies to US. When India warships coming to Vietnam and conducting training with Vietnam Navy, PLAN and Chinese CG basically keep their distance. India and China have their dispute and distrust, but they also work together as BRICS. Nothing that simple black and white.

I never support China on any of my posts, I never hide my Indonesia also see China can be potential adversary. However as non allied nation Indonesia or even India, Malaysia, Bangladesh etc, also see they can be our partner. Thus Russia-China or US-Allies have their own agenda that will not be all going to be inline with Global South nation like us. That's why most of us don't buy Black and White between both Groupings.

Russia has decades traveling in GIUK or English Channel, as it is their sea lines to travel from their base to Mediterania and Black Sea. Will NATO going to behave the similar ways if much more PLAN (which don't have as legitimate excuses) transfer as Russian Navy (or even together) in Euro Sea Lines? Will the shadowing will be more intense just like Chinese done in SCS ? Time will tell.

Russia and Chinese behavior perhaps rougher then US and Allies in sea. However saying they are not respecting the rights for freedom of navigation, not as simple black and white as many West media try to put. Will USN going to behave more nicely to PLAN if they are closing in Diego Garcia or Guam ? Cause that what PLAN claim USN and Allies done, not innocent navigation to SCS, but more closing in and spying in to their bases in SCS.

O yes, Western Navy can claim that those Chinese bases in SCS are illegal bases. However it is military bases anyway. Will Western Navy going to behave and shadowing nicely if PLAN encroaching near their military bases?

Geopolitics already changing, the situation are more multipolar as it is now. Again not easy black and white perspective, especially for non aligned nations in Global South.

 

[Redshift]

China behavior is always politically motivated. Recently they are aiming and harress Philippines much more then the other ASEAN neighbors. Because they see Philippines as US lackey. They are conducting agreesive shadowing on US and Allies Warships but not others they are deemed not close Allies to US. When India warships coming to Vietnam and conducting training with Vietnam Navy, PLAN and Chinese CG basically keep their distance. India and China have their dispute and distrust, but they also work together as BRICS. Nothing that simple black and white.

I never support China on any of my posts, I never hide my Indonesia also see China can be potential adversary. However as non allied nation Indonesia or even India, Malaysia, Bangladesh etc, also see they can be our partner. Thus Russia-China or US-Allies have their own agenda that will not be all going to be inline with Global South nation like us. That's why most of us don't buy Black and White between both Groupings.

Russia has decades traveling in GIUK or English Channel, as it is their sea lines to travel from their base to Mediterania and Black Sea. Will NATO going to behave the similar ways if much more PLAN (which don't have as legitimate excuses) transfer as Russian Navy (or even together) in Euro Sea Lines? Will the shadowing will be more intense just like Chinese done in SCS ? Time will tell.

Russia and Chinese behavior perhaps rougher then US and Allies in sea. However saying they are not respecting the rights for freedom of navigation, not as simple black and white as many West media try to put. Will USN going to behave more nicely to PLAN if they are closing in Diego Garcia or Guam ? Cause that what PLAN claim USN and Allies done, not innocent navigation to SCS, but more closing in and spying in to their bases in SCS.

O yes, Western Navy can claim that those Chinese bases in SCS are illegal bases. However it is military bases anyway. Will Western Navy going to behave and shadowing nicely if PLAN encroaching near their military bases?

Geopolitics already changing, the situation are more multipolar as it is now. Again not easy black and white perspective, especially for non aligned nations in Global South.

I believe that China sent some ships to Russia via the English channel last year. We the UK and NATO monitor of course, but we don't impede progress and I can't see why we would as these ships present no danger to our interests.

I would welcome the Chinese carrier and it's escorts here, I can't imagine that they would be here intending to start a war.

So long as ships are operating in internationally recognised water ways with freedom of navigation why would we ever stop them?

 

[StingrayOZ]

So long as ships are operating in internationally recognised water ways with freedom of navigation why would we ever stop them?

The English channel has long been a shipping route used by multiple nations. It doesn't upset people, that Russians, or the Chinese use it. Also, Western Europe has been dominated, by European powers. Its not like Europe is has a whole lot of examples of a non-European (non local) navy, turning up, blasting the entire continent, defeating everyone and locking them to servitude. Europeans probably can't even probably imagine that, European defence tends to dream as far as Russia, which has been a long time Europe actor for over a thousand years. Russia as a naval power has be bit of patchy history, so the fear about Russia was less about ships, but more about a land invasion.

If you really want to create a split in NATO about freedom of Navigation, ask the Canadians how they would feel about Chinese carrier groups exercising in the North West passage. Heck they don't even like the Americans going through there.

A Chinese carrier probably doesn't worry Europeans as much as say 24 Chinese submarines operating in the English channel. A carrier operating in a choke point aggressively is rather silly. Its gifting a target. Sending two dozen submarines to sight see European coasts would be pretty odd.

24 submarines operating in and around a choke point would be way more threatening. Europe isn't worried about a carrier turning up and controlling airspace. Europe would totally be worried about a fleet of subs turning up and shutting down all port activity. Sending so many submarines that you could literally walk from France to England on top of Chinese submarines would be very novel for European powers. Of course they wouldn't do that, but they could sure control strategic choke point globally if they Americans were busy elsewhere. Namely the med, the Gulf and the straits.

Chinese operating Carrier groups in the Mediterranean would be a bit different. A Chinese carrier would provide significant enough air power to be concerning to countries in North Africa and the middle east. Not enough to attack stronger nations in that region, but enough that if they were to side with an enemy in the region, it could shift the balance of power.

China wants to make others feel less sure about freedom of navigation. It now has enough naval power and skills, it can go around and do that. Just like the Americans go around the world to prove the opposite.

However it is getting harder and harder to do that against China. China can offer more and more capability to counter it. Maybe China will start fishing in European waters and send its coast guard and navy to defend its fishing fleet. Oceanic rights, EEZ, freedom of nav are all tied in together and China will happily test anyone's belief. I would imagine the Europeans would be quite upset if the Chinese turned up with oil drilling rigs and started to drill and ship north sea gas and oil without permission.

 

[Redshift]

The English channel has long been a shipping route used by multiple nations. It doesn't upset people, that Russians, or the Chinese use it. Also, Western Europe has been dominated, by European powers. Its not like Europe is has a whole lot of examples of a non-European (non local) navy, turning up, blasting the entire continent, defeating everyone and locking them to servitude. Europeans probably can't even probably imagine that, European defence tends to dream as far as Russia, which has been a long time Europe actor for over a thousand years. Russia as a naval power has be bit of patchy history, so the fear about Russia was less about ships, but more about a land invasion.

If you really want to create a split in NATO about freedom of Navigation, ask the Canadians how they would feel about Chinese carrier groups exercising in the North West passage. Heck they don't even like the Americans going through there.

A Chinese carrier probably doesn't worry Europeans as much as say 24 Chinese submarines operating in the English channel. A carrier operating in a choke point aggressively is rather silly. Its gifting a target. Sending two dozen submarines to sight see European coasts would be pretty odd.

24 submarines operating in and around a choke point would be way more threatening. Europe isn't worried about a carrier turning up and controlling airspace. Europe would totally be worried about a fleet of subs turning up and shutting down all port activity. Sending so many submarines that you could literally walk from France to England on top of Chinese submarines would be very novel for European powers. Of course they wouldn't do that, but they could sure control strategic choke point globally if they Americans were busy elsewhere. Namely the med, the Gulf and the straits.

Chinese operating Carrier groups in the Mediterranean would be a bit different. A Chinese carrier would provide significant enough air power to be concerning to countries in North Africa and the middle east. Not enough to attack stronger nations in that region, but enough that if they were to side with an enemy in the region, it could shift the balance of power.

China wants to make others feel less sure about freedom of navigation. It now has enough naval power and skills, it can go around and do that. Just like the Americans go around the world to prove the opposite.

However it is getting harder and harder to do that against China. China can offer more and more capability to counter it. Maybe China will start fishing in European waters and send its coast guard and navy to defend its fishing fleet. Oceanic rights, EEZ, freedom of nav are all tied in together and China will happily test anyone's belief. I would imagine the Europeans would be quite upset if the Chinese turned up with oil drilling rigs and started to drill and ship north sea gas and oil without permission.

Most of that post isn't about freedom of navigation though.

24 Chinese subs ... I'm not sure how the logistics would work there but yes that would be unpleasant

Is the US or Europe planning on drilling for oil in the SCS? No of course not.

Europeans as far as Cornwall, but mostly in the Mediterranean, have indeed suffered from dangers from the sea, most notable the Barbary Pirates.

The acts that you describe are far from freedom of navigation, and some, such as blockading the English channel are acts of war.

 

[StevoJH]

If anyone put 24 Submarines in the English channel on an operational mission, their opponent would probably be rubbing their hands together with glee.

The average depth is just over 60 metres, where are they going to hide?

 

[swerve]

. . .
Europeans as far as Cornwall, but mostly in the Mediterranean, have indeed suffered from dangers from the sea, most notable the Barbary Pirates. . . .

They also raided Ireland & Iceland