Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Henderson dry dock will create hundreds of jobs: Govt

Paywall from the west australian, however the government confirmed today that they will commit to a large drydock in Henderson. There is a study into the type and design of a dry dock that will be completed by Oct.

Also confirmed that a plan for the Henderson precinct will be handed to the government in July. Perhaps we will see it in the third quarter this year.
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Found this of interest in Naval News


Italian carrier deployment in the coming months including visits to some 10 countries.

Limited details, but the carrier with both fixed and rotary aircraft,complete with escorts will participate in Australian waters in the 2024 Pitch Black exercise.

A very interesting one to keep an eye on.

Cheers S
 

south

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately it is part and parcel of the current political and media environment, the daily news cycle with minute by minute updates and self appointed experts proclaiming their two cents more loudly that the people who actually know are allowed to.

There will be multiple updates and white noise drowning out the actual information before the witness has finished speaking. Too big, too small, too fast, too slow, too expensive, too cheap, all at the same time.

When you have grandstanding clowns like Shoebridge aiming for gotcha moments, the narrative has to be strictly controlled.

The truth is we are dealing with systematic and cultural problems arising from decisions and policies as far back as the mid and late 90s, yet the narrative is every single problem (depending on your politics) is either the fault of Marles/Albanese, or Dutton/Morrison.
I tend to disagree, because Defence isn’t politics. It’s Defence. There’s reason for Australians (through their elected representatives) to ask questions and demand accountability, and often it’s treated with contempt and obfuscation. This is counter to Defences own, heavily pushed values, which include courage and integrity.
 

Volkodav

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I tend to disagree, because Defence isn’t politics. It’s Defence. There’s reason for Australians (through their elected representatives) to ask questions and demand accountability, and often it’s treated with contempt and obfuscation. This is counter to Defences own, heavily pushed values, which include courage and integrity.
It's interesting interacting with senior sirs who know things but can't discuss them or having conversations where certain things, that are known, can't be discussed because they aren't officially known.

There are very definitely commercial reasons as well as political. There are real dangers that if something's were known certain parties could play hard ball while others, who are needed, may walk.

Some of the bs pushed in the media and by interested parties is very definitely not in the nation's best interests. It's more about scoring political points at the expense of people trying to do their jobs.

The target may be the minister or PM, but those on the firing line are serving ADF, APS and industry. Commodores and Admirals are not decision makers, they are quite often little more than conduits of information to the ministers, hence, parliament. They can provide advice, but not make decisions.
 

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
Henderson dry dock will create hundreds of jobs: Govt

Paywall from the west australian, however the government confirmed today that they will commit to a large drydock in Henderson. There is a study into the type and design of a dry dock that will be completed by Oct.

Also confirmed that a plan for the Henderson precinct will be handed to the government in July. Perhaps we will see it in the third quarter this year.
Apparently in the last 1/4 before a decision is made.
5 years for some aukus infrastructure, 10 years total for the rest of Henderson.


Darwin shiplift and associated works also underway. Recent updates…
(2025/2026 completion)






‘The final design promises a versatile setup with 5 berths, capable of accommodating vessels up to 190m, including 2 Hunter class berths. This project marks a substantial enhancement to Darwin's maritime infrastructure, fostering growth and operational capabilities within the region.’


Cairns marine precinct upgrades also seem to be accelerating. (2027 completion).
 

DDG38

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Long form article in the SMH covering issues with the Cape class and discussion about recent people smuggling efforts. Behind a paywall so some excerpts below :
"Insiders claim Australian Border Force’s $50 million Cape-class boats are beset with dangerous issues. An investigation has revealed one was out of action at the same time as a people-smuggling vessel landed in Western Australia."
"As dozens of thirsty and exhausted asylum seekers wandered the ochre-red dirt tracks criss-crossing Dampier Peninsula’s remote bushland in February, the crew of the $50 million patrol boat meant to stop them from reaching Australia’s mainland were dealing with the fallout of their own crisis.
A fire and communication systems failure had crippled the Australian Border Force’s boat, Cape York, as it patrolled off the scrubby Kimberley coastline where the 39 men were now lost.
The blaze was caused by a leaking hose that had sprayed oil into the Cape York’s engine room just as an Indonesian fishing boat-turned-people-smuggling vessel had tracked towards a strip of sand about 150 kilometres from Broome."
""Had there not been a fire, the asylum seekers would have been located,” a former Border Force Cape-class crew member told this masthead, speaking anonymously because it is an offence under Operation Sovereign Borders secrecy laws to speak to the media.
The Cape York’s problems were uncovered in an investigation by this masthead and 60 Minutes alongside claims from multiple Border Force insiders of much bigger problems dogging the entire Cape-class fleet involving multiple known – but unresolved – defects.
They claim the problems badly undermine the eight-strong fleet’s mission to confront illegal fishing and people-smuggling in Australian waters.
Along with major fire risks, communications and vital oil leak alarm systems regularly fail to work properly."
 

hauritz

Well-Known Member
Long form article in the SMH covering issues with the Cape class and discussion about recent people smuggling efforts. Behind a paywall so some excerpts below :
"Insiders claim Australian Border Force’s $50 million Cape-class boats are beset with dangerous issues. An investigation has revealed one was out of action at the same time as a people-smuggling vessel landed in Western Australia."
"As dozens of thirsty and exhausted asylum seekers wandered the ochre-red dirt tracks criss-crossing Dampier Peninsula’s remote bushland in February, the crew of the $50 million patrol boat meant to stop them from reaching Australia’s mainland were dealing with the fallout of their own crisis.
A fire and communication systems failure had crippled the Australian Border Force’s boat, Cape York, as it patrolled off the scrubby Kimberley coastline where the 39 men were now lost.
The blaze was caused by a leaking hose that had sprayed oil into the Cape York’s engine room just as an Indonesian fishing boat-turned-people-smuggling vessel had tracked towards a strip of sand about 150 kilometres from Broome."
""Had there not been a fire, the asylum seekers would have been located,” a former Border Force Cape-class crew member told this masthead, speaking anonymously because it is an offence under Operation Sovereign Borders secrecy laws to speak to the media.
The Cape York’s problems were uncovered in an investigation by this masthead and 60 Minutes alongside claims from multiple Border Force insiders of much bigger problems dogging the entire Cape-class fleet involving multiple known – but unresolved – defects.
They claim the problems badly undermine the eight-strong fleet’s mission to confront illegal fishing and people-smuggling in Australian waters.
Along with major fire risks, communications and vital oil leak alarm systems regularly fail to work properly."
I wonder if the navy Capes are just as buggy.
Perhaps this could also add to the speculation that the navy’s Arafuras could end up in Border Force hands.

The navy is in a weird place with its constabulary fleet at the moment. With the exception of the soon to be retired Armidales it is a whole bunch of non-commissioned patrol boats equipped with mini guns. It isn’t even clear if the Arafura has a role in the navy force structure going forward.
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Long form article in the SMH covering issues with the Cape class and discussion about recent people smuggling efforts. Behind a paywall so some excerpts below :
"Insiders claim Australian Border Force’s $50 million Cape-class boats are beset with dangerous issues. An investigation has revealed one was out of action at the same time as a people-smuggling vessel landed in Western Australia."
"As dozens of thirsty and exhausted asylum seekers wandered the ochre-red dirt tracks criss-crossing Dampier Peninsula’s remote bushland in February, the crew of the $50 million patrol boat meant to stop them from reaching Australia’s mainland were dealing with the fallout of their own crisis.
A fire and communication systems failure had crippled the Australian Border Force’s boat, Cape York, as it patrolled off the scrubby Kimberley coastline where the 39 men were now lost.
The blaze was caused by a leaking hose that had sprayed oil into the Cape York’s engine room just as an Indonesian fishing boat-turned-people-smuggling vessel had tracked towards a strip of sand about 150 kilometres from Broome."
""Had there not been a fire, the asylum seekers would have been located,” a former Border Force Cape-class crew member told this masthead, speaking anonymously because it is an offence under Operation Sovereign Borders secrecy laws to speak to the media.
The Cape York’s problems were uncovered in an investigation by this masthead and 60 Minutes alongside claims from multiple Border Force insiders of much bigger problems dogging the entire Cape-class fleet involving multiple known – but unresolved – defects.
They claim the problems badly undermine the eight-strong fleet’s mission to confront illegal fishing and people-smuggling in Australian waters.
Along with major fire risks, communications and vital oil leak alarm systems regularly fail to work properly."
Suprisingly SMH let me read the article without a paywall. Lot of stuff going on there. Engine room fires can be full on and terrifying, however it sounds like the crew performed well to control it.

I wonder how much of the maintenance concerns relate to high utilisation. We discussed previously the same issue for the ANZACs, and the enevitable end result on ship condition (and crew).

On the same point, if the vessel could not be replaced on station, it suggests the fleet is very tight, either not enough platforms or too many in maintenance.

I could only imagine that the radio and comms related deficiencies relate to availability of parts. This stuff is usually swappable for a rotable spare.

Border force I think only have the legacy capes, not the evolved. It will be interesting to see if early replacements are brought forward. This aligns with Austal's investor report from Reptilia's post from a few days ago, showing continuing ECP production runs.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Suprisingly SMH let me read the article without a paywall. Lot of stuff going on there. Engine room fires can be full on and terrifying, however it sounds like the crew performed well to control it.

I wonder how much of the maintenance concerns relate to high utilisation. We discussed previously the same issue for the ANZACs, and the enevitable end result on ship condition (and crew).

On the same point, if the vessel could not be replaced on station, it suggests the fleet is very tight, either not enough platforms or too many in maintenance.

I could only imagine that the radio and comms related deficiencies relate to availability of parts. This stuff is usually swappable for a rotable spare.

Border force I think only have the legacy capes, not the evolved. It will be interesting to see if early replacements are brought forward. This aligns with Austal's investor report from Reptilia's post from a few days ago, showing continuing ECP production runs.
The RAN operates a pair of Cape-class patrol boats ADV Cape Fourcroy and ADV Cape Inscription, with the rest of the RAN/Defence boats being Evolved Cape-class, with the ABF currently only having Cape-class patrol boats, not the Evolved versions.

Having said that though, the Cape-class has had some issues, not unlike the earlier Armidale-class patrol boats, with some of the issues being design issues IIRC and not just a result of hard use and/or over use. This in turn has me wondering when it might be decided that enough is enough.
 

Going Boeing

Well-Known Member
Mitsubishi has delivered the first locally produced Mk41 systems for installation on their Mogami frigates. They are the only company outside Lockheed Martin to licence produce Mk41’s so this may give them an edge in securing the RAN GPF contract as they have more control of delivery of the Mk41 which is now in high demand.

Japan's Mogami-class Frigates Will Start Getting VLS in FY 2024 - Naval News

IMG_5768.jpeg
US Daily News article courtesy of a Facebook feed.
 

Armchair

Active Member
Kym Bergmann on his APDR podcast suggesting that Hanwha Ocean(previously DSME) may offer the DW 3000F known as the Bhumibol Adulyadej-class frigate (Royal Thai Navy) instead of the Daegu.


Was Bergmann speculating or, for what its worth, quoting sources? The RTN vessel looks like it has numerous RAN in-service systems integrated with 9LV
 

SammyC

Well-Known Member
Kym Bergmann on his APDR podcast suggesting that Hanwha Ocean(previously DSME) may offer the DW 3000F known as the Bhumibol Adulyadej-class frigate (Royal Thai Navy) instead of the Daegu.


I hadn't noticed the Bhumibol Adulyadej before, so very interesting that Hanwa can successfully put a 9LV and Mk41 package together. That levels the playing field with the Europeans, as this was their main strength.
 

Swifty87

New Member
I hadn't noticed the Bhumibol Adulyadej before, so very interesting that Hanwa can successfully put a 9LV and Mk41 package together. That levels the playing field with the Europeans, as this was their main strength.
Some common equipment, but I just can't see them selecting anything that has 8x cell VLS. Even with the 'upgrade' to 16x cells, which it is apparently capable of, isn't nearly sufficient.

32x cells must be the absolute minimum as a baseline moving forward..
 

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Some common equipment, but I just can't see them selecting anything that has 8x cell VLS. Even with the 'upgrade' to 16x cells, which it is apparently capable of, isn't nearly sufficient.

32x cells must be the absolute minimum as a baseline moving forward..
Why 32 cells and where did you get that number from ? have you seen the requirements ?
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Is there a requirement for the GP Frigate to carry SM2 or SM6?

If its primary loadout is to be ESSM, 16 Cells would allow up to 64 ESSM to be carried.

What are the odds of the ship surviving if it needs to fire 64 ESSM? Also, surely someone has planned extremely badly if a single ship is put into such a situation with no support?

That Thai frigate has interesting systems, it does look odd though. Its almost like they have cut the bow off one deck level lower then planned.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Is there a requirement for the GP Frigate to carry SM2 or SM6?

If its primary loadout is to be ESSM, 16 Cells would allow up to 64 ESSM to be carried.

What are the odds of the ship surviving if it needs to fire 64 ESSM? Also, surely someone has planned extremely badly if a single ship is put into such a situation with no support?

That Thai frigate has interesting systems, it does look odd though. Its almost like they have cut the bow off one deck level lower then planned.
ROK Navy Commissions Seventh Daegu-class FFX Batch II Frigate - Naval News
The Superstructure is pretty similar to the Daegu, like the Japanese ships it is a very blocky design.
 

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Is there a requirement for the GP Frigate to carry SM2 or SM6?

If its primary loadout is to be ESSM, 16 Cells would allow up to 64 ESSM to be carried.

What are the odds of the ship surviving if it needs to fire 64 ESSM? Also, surely someone has planned extremely badly if a single ship is put into such a situation with no support?

That Thai frigate has interesting systems, it does look odd though. Its almost like they have cut the bow off one deck level lower then planned.
Or 32 ESSM and 8 Tomahawks?
If it's a GP frigates, it should be able to cover a few roles. 16 cells only allows it 8 cells for anything other than self defence. A frigate armed just for self protection is not much use IMO.
 

Reptilia

Well-Known Member
Bhumibol Adulyadej class - 124.1m x 14.4m, 3,700ton, 76mm, 16* MK41 VLS, 140 crew
CODAG 4,000nm at 18knts

Chungnam class - 129m x 14.8m, 4,300ton, 127mm, 16 KVLS, possibly MK41, 120 crew
CODLOG 5,000nm at 18knts
> Plus easy transition to FFX IV

Chungnam with 9LV, MK41, NULKA, Phalanx would be a no brainer between the 2, if possible.


More recent chatter about sustainment of bigger vessels in the north. Another article in the Cairns post and on media coming out of Norsta.

-256m L x 180m W is the maintenance lot planned for Cairns.
Current Plan includes Approx (1 Washdown 120mx30m, 1 HS 125mx40m, 1 PB 125mx35m, 2 HS 100mx40m, 1 PB 100mx25m, 1 HS 80mx25m). Shiplift similar to Darwin, 5,000 ton max load. Nominal vessels approx 120m TL.
You could extend the lift and increase the max load to take bigger vessels but you cannot make the maintenance lot bigger without taking cook street or relocating the sugar terminal. This is why I think any ship bigger than 133m(Mogami) is unlikely to be chosen and why the Arrowhead 140 was not listed.(Cairns post also seems to suggest ships from Britain were an option along with the designs from the other 4 countries before it was cut.)

On current plans
CAN FIT(no change required) - 109m-Tasman, 121m-MEKO A200, 122m-Daegu, 124m-DW 3000F
TIGHT FIT(with slight change to current plan) - 127m-MEKO A210, 129m-Chungnam, 133m-Mogami
CANT FIT(unless big changes are made) - 139m-A140, 142m-FFM

Updated plans may alter slightly, 1 less HS for OPVs and 1 more for GPF or other vessels like Auxiliaries.
A complete change to the design or lot expansion this late on I think is unlikely, a similar setup to bae Henderson with the turntable would allow bigger vessels to fit but they are to be using SPMTs.
 
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