Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) News and Discussions

[Sender]

Looks like the RCAF is getting close to placing an order for the MQ-9B. Based on the number of radar sets in the following announcement, it may be up to 12.

Canada – MQ-9B Integrated Systems | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

 

[John Fedup]

Apparently some new information on why Canada's Arrow project was cancelled. Not worth discussing the why IMO but the how is worth discussing. Destroying the several prototypes, WTF. Good platforms for research. Ending the Iroquois jet engine, a program that had both commercial and military value, doh. But worst of all, a skilled workforce of 15,000 dumped. I guess Dief thought they would all go to MF and build more tractors for his agricultural voters in Saskatchewan. Pollies, the gift that keeps on giving (up the sunshine starved orifice).

Long-secret Canadian intelligence sealed Avro Arrow's cancellation, new paper says (msn.com)

 

[FormerDirtDart]

Apparently some new information on why Canada's Arrow project was cancelled. Not worth discussing the why IMO but the how is worth discussing. Destroying the several prototypes, WTF. Good platforms for research. Ending the Iroquois jet engine, a program that had both commercial and military value, doh. But worst of all, a skilled workforce of 15,000 dumped. I guess Dief thought they would all go to MF and build more tractors for his agricultural voters in Saskatchewan. Pollies, the gift that keeps on giving (up the sunshine starved orifice).

Long-secret Canadian intelligence sealed Avro Arrow's cancellation, new paper says (msn.com)

More likely a terrible platform for research.
Without production there would be no access to spare parts
Red headed step children rarely fair well

 

[John Fedup]

More likely a terrible platform for research.
Without production there would be no access to spare parts
Red headed step children rarely fair well

Again it depends on how the shut down occurs. If consideration was give to keeping several units for R&D then manufacturing some critical spares would be needed. Also, a couple of airframes would also be used for parts. The best use would be for testing the Iroquois engine, a project that would need to continue otherwise the remaining Arrows should have been given to museums “intact” instead of being chopped up.

 

[John Fedup]

Just one additional comment, I believe the UK (aerospace firms involved with Concord) had interests for R&D). Perhaps UK members might know. I recall an article suggesting the Arrows couldn’t be donated to museums because of sensitive technology and this was the reason they had to be chopped up. Complete BS IMHO!!! Pollies with no balls defence of a stupid decision, the chopping up part at the very least.

 

[swerve]

It's hard to think of sensitive technology which could be reverse engineered from looking at an airframe in a museum. Avionics, & anything else that could be stolen & studied at leisure, could be removed before donation.

So agreed, it was bullshit.

 

[John Fedup]

Some anal behaviour by the PLAAF over the South China Sea against a RCAF CP-140 according to this link.

Chinese fighters engaged in 'unsafe' intercept of Canadian surveillance plane, commander says — CBC News

A Canadian surveillance plane conducting a sanctions enforcement patrol was intercepted by Chinese warplanes off the coast of China in an “unsafe and unprofessional manner,” a senior Canadian air force commander said Monday.

apple.news

 

[John Fedup]

Yet another example of Canada's dysfunctional military procurement. Note the usual reason for a delay, special requirements needed for Canadian operation. Liberal excuse to delay funding.

Air force will have to wait even longer to get armed drones, defence department says (msn.com)

 

[Vanquish]

Yet another example of Canada's dysfunctional military procurement. Note the usual reason for a delay, special requirements needed for Canadian operation. Liberal excuse to delay funding.

Air force will have to wait even longer to get armed drones, defence department says (msn.com)

Yes it's disappointing as usual. They should go ahead with the procurement and then operate them at lower latitudes to become proficient in their operation. They could then do a refurbishment 10 years later when the "Canadianization" equipment becomes available.

 

[John Fedup]

Yes it's disappointing as usual. They should go ahead with the procurement and then operate them at lower latitudes to become proficient in their operation. They could then do a refurbishment 10 years later when the "Canadianization" equipment becomes available.

Pity your common sense solution doesn't stand a chance.

 

[OldTex]

Yet another example of Canada's dysfunctional military procurement. Note the usual reason for a delay, special requirements needed for Canadian operation. Liberal excuse to delay funding.

Air force will have to wait even longer to get armed drones, defence department says (msn.com)

The DND written statement uses the argument that "For example, the need to operate at high Northern latitudes, including in the Arctic, requires the use of satellites and aircraft antennas and communication components not previously integrated on the MQ-9." This argument is intended as justification to the general public who won't know (or care perhaps) that the MQ-9s operated in the Middle East were controlled from Creech AFB, which required the use of SATCOM

 

[John Fedup]

The DND written statement uses the argument that "For example, the need to operate at high Northern latitudes, including in the Arctic, requires the use of satellites and aircraft antennas and communication components not previously integrated on the MQ-9." This argument is intended as justification to the general public who won't know (or care perhaps) that the MQ-9s operated in the Middle East were controlled from Creech AFB, which required the use of SATCOM

GD also did a demo flight to 78N in 2021.

 

[John Fedup]

Some push back from Canadian aerospace companies involved in supporting Boeing's P-8 purchase don't want an open bid as the combined economic benefits favour a Boeing decision over a Bombardier award. Economies of scale will result in less cost for upgrades and P-8s are used by our allies. Most importantly, the P-8 exists now, Bombardier's proposal does not exist yet....sort of like the CH-148 Cyclone the Liberals ordered which worked out so well (NOT!).

Aerospace firms push back against Bombardier, tout upsides of a Boeing military deal (msn.com)

 

[ngatimozart]

Some push back from Canadian aerospace companies involved in supporting Boeing's P-8 purchase don't want an open bid as the combined economic benefits favour a Boeing decision over a Bombardier award. Economies of scale will result in less cost for upgrades and P-8s are used by our allies. Most importantly, the P-8 exists now, Bombardier's proposal does not exist yet....sort of like the CH-148 Cyclone the Liberals ordered which worked out so well (NOT!).

Aerospace firms push back against Bombardier, tout upsides of a Boeing military deal (msn.com)

Maybe it's time that Quebec became an independent sovereign nation and started paying for its defence, foreign policy, and economic policies. Might wake its ideas up about reinventing the wheel and the associated costs.

 

[seaspear]

Perhaps some Quebecers wish to become a province of France , but this is a road travelled before with a referendum
Why does Quebec have its own immigration policy? | CIC News

 

[John Fedup]

Maybe it's time that Quebec became an independent sovereign nation and started paying for its defence, foreign policy, and economic policies. Might wake its ideas up about reinventing the wheel and the associated costs.

The US would then have two defence welfare recipients, one of which would have additional language/communication costs.

 

[John Fedup]

Perhaps some Quebecers wish to become a province of France , but this is a road travelled before with a referendum
Why does Quebec have its own immigration policy? | CIC News

As per the article, immigration is a provincial and federal responsibility. Quebec seems to be the only province willing to address this issue without PC getting in the way.

 

[Todjaeger]

The US would then have two defence welfare recipients, one of which would have additional language/communication costs.

You are of course assuming that Quebec as a newly independent nation would have free and friendly ties with nations that are/have been friendly with a united Canada. I would not automatically assume that this would be the case, with the same also applying to whether or not Quebec would be or become a part of NATO as an independent nation.

 

[John Fedup]

You are of course assuming that Quebec as a newly independent nation would have free and friendly ties with nations that are/have been friendly with a united Canada. I would not automatically assume that this would be the case, with the same also applying to whether or not Quebec would be or become a part of NATO as an independent nation.

I can see issues for Quebec wrt the US but other countries will make decisions based on what kind of a relationship is required with English Canada.

 

[Redlands18]

You are of course assuming that Quebec as a newly independent nation would have free and friendly ties with nations that are/have been friendly with a united Canada. I would not automatically assume that this would be the case, with the same also applying to whether or not Quebec would be or become a part of NATO as an independent nation.

I have never looked closely at a map of Eastern Canada before, but what a strategic and economic nightmare an independent and neutral Quebec would be to the rest of Canada and the importance of the St Lawrence Sea Way.