Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[ngatimozart]

The MOD has released a RFI: INDUSTRY ENGAGEMENT Maritime Fleet Market Research for the Defence Capability Plan through GETS.

Open Date :	Thursday, 7 September 2023 3:00 PM (Pacific/Auckland UTC+12:00)
Close Date :	Wednesday, 15 November 2023 4:00 PM (Pacific/Auckland UTC+13:00)

"Overview​

The majority of the Royal New Zealand Navy (RNZN) fleet is due to reach the end of service life by the mid-2030s. The need to invest in replacement capabilities has already been signalled in the previous Defence Capability Plan (2019). Rather than taking a ‘like for like’ approach to replacement, there is a unique opportunity to consider alternative fleet configurations, alternative ways to operate, and alternative approaches to support the fleet in the upcoming Defence Capability Plan.

These opportunities will be explored in order to inform the wider Defence Policy Review, including assisting the development of the Defence Capability Plan. This reflects the Future Force Design Principles (FFDP) approach to engage industry earlier in planning and design."​

The introduction to the document states:

1.1 Need for Maritime Fleet Investment ​

1.1.1 The majority of the Royal New Zealand Navy (RNZN) fleet is due to reach the end of service life by the mid-2030s. The need to invest in replacement capabilities has already been signalled in the previous Defence Capability Plan (2019). Rather than taking a ‘like for like’ approach to replacement, there is a unique opportunity to consider alternative fleet configurations, alternative ways to operate, and alternative approaches to support the fleet in the upcoming Defence Capability Plan. ​

1.1.2 These opportunities will be explored in order to inform the wider Defence Policy Review, including assisting the development of the Defence Capability Plan. This reflects the Future Force Design Principles (FFDP) approach to engage industry earlier in planning and design. ​

1.1.3 To understand the need for this approach, and the influences affecting Defence, refer to the following publicly available documents: ​

(a) Defence Policy and Strategy Statement 2023 (DPSS) www.defence.govt.nz/engage/defence-policy-and-strategy-statement​

(b) Future Force Design Principles 2023 (FFDP) www.defence.govt.nz/engage/future-force-design-principles​

1.1.4 The process for developing a Defence Capability Plan will include: ​

(a) Information gathering via processes such as this market research. This is to ensure Defence has a good understanding of what capabilities and options are available in the market; ​

(b) Developing option sets for decision making. This will refine the information gathered in the first phase and develop options for the ways Defence can deliver on Government expectations over the next 15 years – this will include people, asset and through life support. Defence may require more detailed information from the material gathered in the first phase; ​

(c) Development of a detailed and integrated Defence Capability Plan which, once approved, will signal the Government’s future investment intentions for Defence until 2040; and ​

(d) Once approved, the Defence Capability Plan planned investment will be staged and individual business cases will be developed as usual for major capability procurement. ​

1.1.5 To understand the overall Defence Policy Review process visit: www.defence.govt.nz/engage/what-is-the-defence-policy-review​

​

1.3 Scope of Industry Engagement ​

1.3.1 The Defence Capability Plan is in the early stages of development and industry is invited to provide a broad range of ideas in order to shape the future fleet of the RNZN. These ideas could include: ​

(a) Fleet configuration options that are significantly different from the current fleet; ​

(b) Alternative crewing, operating, and support concepts; ​

(c) Leveraging new technology; ​

(d) Consideration of approaches to reduce environmental impact; ​

(e) Increased partnering arrangements with industry for acquisition and through life support; and ​

(f) A focus on reducing the complexity of NZDF systems and structures with the aim to increase concurrency of operations. ​

1.3.2 The scope of information requested in this industry engagement is: ​

(a) Acquisition and through life support of naval ships; ​

(b) Acquisition and through life support of landing craft; ​

(c) Acquisition and through life support of autonomous uncrewed assets; ​

(d) Acquisition and through life support of mission planning facilities; and ​

(e) Acquisition and through life support of simulation and training facilities. ​

1.3.3 The scope of information requested in this industry engagement does not include: ​

(a) Acquisition and through life support of maritime helicopters; or ​

(b) Acquisition of ships boats (RHIBs). ​

1.3.4 Industry engagement to gather information for the acquisition of maritime helicopters and ships’ boats has already been undertaken under established projects for these investments. See Schedule 3 for more information. However, industry is being invited by this Industry Engagement to suggest approaches to fleet configuration, concept of operation, and through life support, so any assumptions or recommendations on how capability would be delivered through a combination of ships, helicopters and boats should be clearly stated.​

​

1.4 Timing of the Maritime Fleet Investment ​

1.4.1 There are no confirmed decommissioning dates for the current fleet. The previous Defence Capability Plan (2019) indicated the need to replace all ships in the fleet by the mid-2030s with the exception of HMNZS Aotearoa. ​

1.4.2 The actual dates for replacement are dependent on a number of factors, including usage rates, level of maintenance, life extension investments, and the plan for capability transition to the new fleet. Ideally the transition to a new fleet would be spread out to reduce the introduction into service demand. ​

1.4.3 This Industry Engagement invites alternative approaches to the investments proposed in Defence Capability Plan (2019), however it is a relevant reference point for previous views on Defence needs. ​

1.4.4 Suggestions for future fleet configuration can consider all possibilities including the role of HMNZS Aotearoa. ​

​

1.5 Challenges with the current RNZN Fleet ​

1.5.1 The current fleet configuration of nine ships across six classes, with many aspects of bespoke design, is increasingly difficult for the RNZN to manage. Maintenance, operational management, and training requirements differ significantly between ship classes. ​

1.5.2 Diversity of ship classes coupled with only one or two of each ship type provides a breadth of capability but little depth, which may mean the best ship for a task is not available when needed."​

​

There is much more in the document of course and it is 30 pages long (pdf version). This does give an idea of what they are willing to consider. Of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating and we shall have to wait to see what eventuates. By the time the pollies and Treasury water it down we could end up with sailors paddling waka (canoe) armed with 50 cals.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

The MOD has released a RFI: INDUSTRY ENGAGEMENT Maritime Fleet Market Research for the Defence Capability Plan through GETS

​

There is much more in the document of course and it is 30 pages long (pdf version). This does give an idea of what they are willing to consider. Of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating and we shall have to wait to see what eventuates. By the time the pollies and Treasury water it down we could end up with sailors paddling waka (canoe) armed with 50 cals.

That is only if the greens have nothing to do with it... if they do then it will be a surf board and singing Kumbaya... (we are lucky might be two surf boards)

 

[ngatimozart]

That is only if the greens have nothing to do with it... if they do then it will be a surf board and singing Kumbaya... (we are lucky might be two surf boards)

Realistically speaking how much say will they ever get in Cabinet? Any Green ministers are like all other ministers in Cabinet have to follow the Cabinet Rules and one of these rules is that once Cabinet makes a decision ALL ministers must support it. The only way that the Greens could have any control of defence policy, capabilities etc., is if they are the majority governing party and I don't think that is going to happen.

 

[spoz]

But if they are like the ones on this side of the pond, they might offer support to some other program seen as important by the GOTD on the conditions that some of their policies, which affect programs seen as less important to the dominant party, are adopted.

 

[ngatimozart]

But if they are like the ones on this side of the pond, they might offer support to some other program seen as important by the GOTD on the conditions that some of their policies, which affect programs seen as less important to the dominant party, are adopted.

Our Greens are further left wing than Mao Zedong. They are far more interested in far left policies than the environment. If either Green party (AU & NZ) were as pragmatic as the German Greens then they would have a lot to offer the country. IIRC the German Foreign Minister is a German Green and she's more hawkish than the rest of the German govt.

 

[Rob c]

With our Greens, you get a mob that initially seems to have there hearts in the green space, but when you dig deeper, they seem to have absolutely no ability to think any deeper than their slogans. Their solutions for anything range from the ridiculous to the diabolical and in most cases would result in absolutely no benefit to anyone or anything.

 

[Going Boeing]

Ngati, the RNZN has issued a RFI for replacement frigates, it would be great if their plans coincided with the RAN’s Tier 2 type but it’s unlikely as shown with their Anzac frigate upgrade (as well as P-3K’s, training aircraft, etc) they normally like to do their own thing. I’ve often thought that there would be significant savings if the defence forces of both countries acquired similar equipment.

New Zealand seeks new ships to replace ‘majority’ of naval fleet

 

[Stampede]

Ngati, the RNZN has issued a RFI for replacement frigates, it would be great if their plans coincided with the RAN’s Tier 2 type but it’s unlikely as shown with their Anzac frigate upgrade (as well as P-3K’s, training aircraft, etc) they normally like to do their own thing. I’ve often thought that there would be significant savings if the defence forces of both countries acquired similar equipment.

New Zealand seeks new ships to replace ‘majority’ of naval fleet

The good thing is NZ have a blank canvas to work out their future fleet.
Other than their new supply ship this is a great opportunity to craft a well balanced force.

Starting point is what does government want and expect from its fleet.
Also what will they realistically budget to achieve that end.

This will be interesting.


Cheers S

 

[ngatimozart]

Ngati, the RNZN has issued a RFI for replacement frigates, it would be great if their plans coincided with the RAN’s Tier 2 type but it’s unlikely as shown with their Anzac frigate upgrade (as well as P-3K’s, training aircraft, etc) they normally like to do their own thing. I’ve often thought that there would be significant savings if the defence forces of both countries acquired similar equipment.

New Zealand seeks new ships to replace ‘majority’ of naval fleet

I have had a read of the article and they can't get the basics right. NZ has never held federal elections; we aren't a federation. We have a GENERAL ELECTION due on 14/10/2023 with advance voting starting on 2/10/2023. For non Kiwis, anyone can advance vote; you don't require any particular reason to do so. I advance vote every election because it's easier and suits me.

I have posted above about the basics of the RFI of which I have a copy, and it's a market research RFI. They will assess and analyse the replies to that and then may issue a more targeted and detailed RFI. It will be a long time before they will issue a RFT. the pollies and especially Treasury, will not want such large expenditure ideas at the moment.

Net govt debt sits at $71.4 billion (18.1% GDP) at the moment and is forecast to rise to $103.8 billion (22.4% GDP) in 2026. The image below has the figures.

Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update 2023

Executive Summary New Zealand’s economic slowdown is unfolding broadly in line with the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update 2023 (Budget Update).

www.treasury.govt.nz

 

[Volkodav]

I know it's not going to happen but it seems to me the most sensible structure for a small, oceanic (as opposed to coastal) navy, is to have as many, large, capable, multirole ships as can be afforded.

The RNZN, even before it was the RNZN, had a small number of cruisers, with the rest of their warships being sloops or frigates. They never had destroyers.

Looking at it holistically, had NZ stuck with the same model, they would have replaced their Dido class cruisers with County (auto correct always changes county to country ) class DLGs (and apparently DLGs is flags), or maybe even Belknaps, or an Italian style CGH.

Value for money, NZ could justify individually much larger, more capable ships than she currently has. No-one mentions Hunters or Constellations where NZ is concerned, or even building a carbon copy of the Danish major fleet units, i.e. three air defence frigates and two multi role support ships / ASW frigates.

 

[JohnJT]

Value for money, NZ could justify individually much larger, more capable ships than she currently has.

That's why I think the Arrowhead 140 is such a natural choice. Low manning requirements and a simple all diesel power and propulsion plant. Cheap to operate, but still very capable. A mission bay under the helideck large enough for four TEU containers, four boat bays for rhibs, USVs, UUVs, etc. It's a great design.
I'm very interested in the final price tag for the RN's T31 build now that they've added the 32 cell Mk41 VLS.

 

[JohnJT]

Here are some future ship options from HHI. Their HDL 10000 has potential as a future option for replacement of HMNZS Canterbury.

 

[Redlands18]

Here are some future ship options from HHI. Their HDL 10000 has potential as a future option for replacement of HMNZS Canterbury.

HHI NSSBU
I would expect a big push from HHI for the RNZN, they have a range of designs that may interest NZ, including Destroyers, Frigates, Corvettes, 7000,t and 10,000t Amphibs, and Patrol vessels from 300t to 5000t, 4000 and 5000t multi-role support ships. They also have the shipyards to build them and of course have already built HMNZ Aotearoa.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

HHI NSSBU
I would expect a big push from HHI for the RNZN, they have a range of designs that may interest NZ, including Destroyers, Frigates, Corvettes, 7000,t and 10,000t Amphibs, and Patrol vessels from 300t to 5000t, 4000 and 5000t multi-role support ships. They also have the shipyards to build them and of course have already built HMNZ Aotearoa.

Looks like a modern version of the cheaper Makassar-class which was sold to a few navy's etc... not much bigger than and It doesn't seem offer much more than what HMNZS Canterbury can do now... other than a well dock it carry's fewer helo's (hanger for only 2 medium) Canterbury can carry 3 medium plus the SeaSprite. When you read the DCP2019 they are wanting to carry more, helo's, and drone operations, carry much more equipment, more troops, have larger hospital bay more command and control systems.

It may have a space for a more troops sure but there is no major upgrade in capability than what Canterbury can carry and do now... and this is due to Canterbury not having the well dock she can carry ally plus 30 old containers. Having the well dock in this size or similar size vessel you loose that storage space which means to carry the same or more you need to go bigger or go home... ;-) Remember Canterbury at full load is around 9000t as she is.

Also going by the budget given in the DCP2019 1B+ my guess is they are wanting something much larger and more capabilities The 1 billion + is a lot of dosh for a LPD and that little + is an unknown factor... how much of a plus... ;-)

 

[JohnJT]

Looks like a modern version of the cheaper Makassar-class which was sold to a few navy's etc... not much bigger than and It doesn't seem offer much more than what HMNZS Canterbury can do now... other than a well dock it carry's fewer helo's (hanger for only 2 medium) Canterbury can carry 3 medium plus the SeaSprite. When you read the DCP2019 they are wanting to carry more, helo's, and drone operations, carry much more equipment, more troops, have larger hospital bay more command and control systems.

It may have a space for a more troops sure but there is no major upgrade in capability than what Canterbury can carry and do now... and this is due to Canterbury not having the well dock she can carry ally plus 30 old containers. Having the well dock in this size or similar size vessel you loose that storage space which means to carry the same or more you need to go bigger or go home... ;-) Remember Canterbury at full load is around 9000t as she is.

Also going by the budget given in the DCP2019 1B+ my guess is they are wanting something much larger and more capabilities The 1 billion + is a lot of dosh for a LPD and that little + is an unknown factor... how much of a plus... ;-)

If I remember correctly that NZ$1 billion+ was for two vessels? I don't know if that's still on the table?
Worth noting that the HDL10000 is fully customizable to the customer's requirements.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

If I remember correctly that NZ$1 billion+ was for two vessels? I don't know if that's still on the table?
Worth noting that the HDL10000 is fully customizable to the customer's requirements.

there is a bit of a misconception about the 1b+ whether it is for 1 or 2 vessels if you carefully read and analyse it

An article I wrote a while back...

I have been reading many articles on the internet machine that are saying 1B+ is for both sealift vessels in the Defence Capability Plan 2019 released Jun 2019. I have a tendency to disagree with that. But I could be wrong. So is the 1b+ NZD for one enhanced vessel or is it for two? Let's have a closer look.

The way I read it, and let's be honest here I could be wrong, however everything points to saying that $1b or more dollars, is for the one single new enhanced sealift vessel and a separate acquisition and budget will be made for the replacement of HMNZS Canterbury closer to the time of the vessel retirement.

Page 13 Point 69-71.
69. Recognising the high value of sealift to humanitarian and disaster relief, and the sustainment of deployed forces, in the mid-2020s an additional sealift vessel will be acquired. Operating alongside HMNZS Canterbury, this acquisition will provide two sealift vessels, and will greatly improve the effectiveness of the Defence Force, and the resilience of the nation, and the region.

70. The enhanced sealift vessel will have greater lift capacity than HMNZS Canterbury. The capability will provide a highly flexible military asset, including hospital facilities, planning spaces, and self-defence capabilities. It will also provide support for the deployment of a range of capabilities, including Special Forces, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles and NH90 helicopters. The enhanced sealift capability will also improve the New Zealand Defence Force’s amphibious operations. Through the provision of a well dock, it will be able to conduct operations in a wider range of sea conditions, and will have the size and capacity to carry large equipment, and sufficient aviation capacity to allow extended, long duration operations. Its size will also provide for the transport of a larger number of personnel, allowing for the value of the increased size of the New Zealand Army to be realised.

71. Collectively, these enhancements will significantly increase our ability to respond to humanitarian and security events in the Pacific region. While a future project will determine detailed requirements for this capability, a Landing Platform Dock is an example of the type of vessel that will be considered.

Basically explains what capabilities they are wanting for the new enhanced sealift vessel. Basically saying bigger better than HMNZS Canterbury.

Page 13 Point 72.
72. Following 2030, HMNZS Canterbury will be withdrawn from service. At this time an investment will be made to further improve the Defence Force’s sealift capability with an additional vessel. Options will be explored against the composition of the fleet, the wider Defence Force and the prevailing strategic environment.

The sentence "At this time an investment will be made to further improve the Defence Force’s sealift capability with an additional vessel." is basically saying a further investment or separate investment will be made at the time and not part of this plan. Not necessary the same type of vessel as the first enhanced sealift vessel, as they don't know the requirements that will be needed at the time. Requirements may change.

Investment decisions planned for 2026
Enhanced Sealift Capability

197. Acquisition of an enhanced multi-role sealift vessel to complement HMNZS Canterbury will occur in the late 2020s. The ship will be able to carry more people, stores and equipment, and will include a docking well, allowing the ship to be able to operate in a greater range of sea states, including those typically encountered around New Zealand and in the Pacific. It will also support the same or a greater number of embarked helicopters as HMNZS Canterbury. An example of the class of vessel that could be considered under this project is a Landing Platform Dock.

198. The new sealift vessel will provide greater support and sustainment of humanitarian and disaster relief and security operations in the Pacific, and increased support to civil defence and emergency management domestically.

Indicative dates:
Industry engagement commences – 2022
Request for tender – 2024
Introduction into Service – 2029
Indicative capital cost: More than $1b

Nothing there to suggest it is for both vessels and only talks about the vessel that is to supplement HMNZS Canterbury, not the replacement vessel. It also says vessel, not vessels. This is important to note. It does not even mention the replacement for HMNZS Canterbury.

Page 34 Point 203.

Additional Enhanced Sealift Capability
HMNZS Canterbury will be replaced in the mid-2030s, at the end of its service life. The capability acquired will be determined during the business case process, but will improve the Defence Force’s sealift capability at the time HMNZS Canterbury is retired, complementing the enhanced sealift vessel procured in the late 2020s. Options will be explored against the composition of the fleet, the wider Defence Force and the prevailing strategic environment.

Basically put, no budget is given on HMNZS Canterbury replacement, no decision to say it will even be the same style of vessel or whether it will be larger or smaller than the new enhanced sealift. They are saying that they unsure what the requirements are or will be and what new capabilities are required.

So everything is pointing to the 1 billion+ or More than $1b dollars for the one or single vessel, not for two. There is no cost given for the second vessel. The 2nd vessel could easily be a vessel the size of HMNZS Canterbury with well dock and cost only 300 million or the powers that be may decide the 2nd vessel have even more capability than the first enhanced sealift vessel. It doesn't say. It is not in this budget or capability plan due to it is in the mid 2030's.

Also, one has to remember that this plan is a 15 year plan or the 20 billion dollars over 15 years investment plan (which started 5 years ago (at the time of writing original article)) so vessels and equipment past 2030 are not budgeted in this plan neither are the ANZAC replacements for example. Mentioned but not budgeted.

The full defence capability plan can be read here;
https://defence.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/03acb8c6aa/Defence-Capability-Plan-2019.pdf

We are just going to have to wait and see what changes and what cut backs are made in the new capability plan etc...

 

[John Fedup]

Perhaps this Danish design concept is sellable to the NZ electorate and Treasury, a frigate that addresses allied concerns for a contribution to defending SLOC plus should be viable for protecting NZ Antarctica interests.

OSK Design unveils new concept of Arctic frigate

Danish naval architect company OSK Design has unveiled the latest concept for an Arctic frigate.

www.navaltoday.com

 

[Redlands18]

Perhaps this Danish design concept is sellable to the NZ electorate and Treasury, a frigate that addresses allied concerns for a contribution to defending SLOC plus should be viable for protecting NZ Antarctica interests.

OSK Design unveils new concept of Arctic frigate

Danish naval architect company OSK Design has unveiled the latest concept for an Arctic frigate.

www.navaltoday.com

There are treaties banning any military activity in the Antarctic till at least 2048, so I would doubt NZ could send such a vessel anywhere near Antarctica.

 

[Aerojoe]

There are treaties banning any military activity in the Antarctic till at least 2048, so I would doubt NZ could send such a vessel anywhere near Antarctica.

That’s not correct. Art I(2) expressly provides for use of “military personal or equipment for scientific research or for any other peaceful purpose.” The constabulary roles that RNZN frigates and OPVs have performed in the past in support of CCAMLR are an example of such “purpose”.

 

[John Fedup]

There are treaties banning any military activity in the Antarctic till at least 2048, so I would doubt NZ could send such a vessel anywhere near Antarctica.

Sadly 2048 might be the delivery date so the treaty will have expired. BTW, what are the chances of a renewal, zero IMHO.