Iraqi Air Force and Air Defense

[anan]

IqAF (Iraqi Air Force) is adding 24 Golden Eagle FA 50s:
Second batch of T-50 jet fighters arrives in Iraq coming from South Korea
https://www.almasdarnews.com/articl...s-six-south-korean-built-warplanes-many-come/
All 24 FA 50s are expected to be in the fight by the end of 2019. How will this transform the battle space? How much autonomy will this give the Iraqi Government versus Iran's unelected Supreme Leader Sayyed Khamenei? How close are the Iraqis to being able to defend their air airspace from Iran and engage in air to air combat with the Iranian Air Force? How close is Iraq to being able to engage Khamenei backed militias operating inside Iraq with substantial combined fire coordinated close air support?

Iraq also has about 25 (did one get damaged?) F16s, 10 Aero L-159s, 21 Sukhoi Su-25s, Cessna 208s, and at least 15 T-6 attack aircraft.

 

[anan]

Here's How The U.S. Could Allay Israeli Concerns Over Selling F-35s To UAE

Israel is presently the only F-35 operator in the Middle East and Israeli officials and politicians have been vocal about keeping it that way.

www.thedrive.com

How to get technicians back inside Iraq to service the IqAF?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The CH-4s were revealed as Iraqi Army Aviation Command (IAAC) assets when they were first displayed in 2015. The report said Iraq originally acquired 20, eight of which have since crashed.
I wonder if the serviceability of the CH-4 UAV is on a similar level at other airforces. There are no reports yet that the Indonesian Ari Force (TNI-AU) lost any CH-4B, but the Egypt Air Force and UAEAF seems to have lost some CH-4s above Lybia.

Iraqi Su-25s, UAVs grounded because of lack of spares

Iraq’s Russian-made Su-25 ground-attack aircraft and Chinese-made CH-4 unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) are currently grounded owing to a lack of spare parts, according...

www.janes.com

 

[OPSSG]

The CH-4s were revealed as Iraqi Army Aviation Command (IAAC) assets when they were first displayed in 2015. The report said Iraq originally acquired 20, eight of which have since crashed.
I wonder if the serviceability of the CH-4 UAV is on a similar level at other airforces. There are no reports yet that the Indonesian Ari Force (TNI-AU) lost any CH-4B, but the Egypt Air Force and UAEAF seems to have lost some CH-4s above Lybia.

Iraqi Su-25s, UAVs grounded because of lack of spares

Iraq’s Russian-made Su-25 ground-attack aircraft and Chinese-made CH-4 unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) are currently grounded owing to a lack of spare parts, according...

www.janes.com

The problems of UAV crashes or serviceability with Iraq is not related to platform design for serviceability, rather it’s more to do with their inability to train and sustain. Iraqi is known for their inability to keep their F-16 fleet operational.

If the CH-4 UAV is not seen as reliable or serviceable by UAE, as a leading operator of the type in the Middle East and Africa (when compared to Ethiopia, Nigeria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq and Saudi Arabia), then the PROBLEM is with the platform itself. The CH-4 UAV is widely exported and logging huge flight hours for a platform — giving Chinese engineers real war time operational tempo numbers on MTBF and other key data on serviceability parameters — which is rich data for improving the product.

Crashes of the CH-4 UAV may be related to the training level of Iraqi Army Aviation operators and maintainers, relative to difficulty faced in weather conditions there and the frequent sandstorms and cross wind conditions faced at landing and take off. We really can’t compare it with Indonesia or Myanmar, in Southeast Asia, who are not forced to operate the CH-4 UAV at the same intensity.

 

[anan]

The CH-4s were revealed as Iraqi Army Aviation Command (IAAC) assets when they were first displayed in 2015. The report said Iraq originally acquired 20, eight of which have since crashed.
I wonder if the serviceability of the CH-4 UAV is on a similar level at other airforces. There are no reports yet that the Indonesian Ari Force (TNI-AU) lost any CH-4B, but the Egypt Air Force and UAEAF seems to have lost some CH-4s above Lybia.

Iraqi Su-25s, UAVs grounded because of lack of spares

Iraq’s Russian-made Su-25 ground-attack aircraft and Chinese-made CH-4 unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) are currently grounded owing to a lack of spare parts, according...

www.janes.com

Could the IAAC have lost these CH-4s in kinetic operations?

 

[anan]

Is there a danger President Biden will demand that all international contractors supporting the IqAF and ISF leave Iraq? Or has he learned his lesson?

 

[John Fedup]

Is there a danger President Biden will demand that all international contractors supporting the IqAF and ISF leave Iraq? Or has he learned his lesson?

No idea but I doubt it. Firstly, as non American contractors, these people only need to answer the Iraqi government and perhaps to their own governments, not the American government. Secondly, why would Biden want to further poison relations with friendly countries who have contractors working in Iraq, assuming they are doing something useful?

 

[anan]

Pres Biden unexpectedly insisted that all of the ANDSF's 18,000 contractors immediately leave on April 14th, 2021. Maybe there was a deal between Pres Biden and the Pakistani Army/Taliban . . . or it was incompetence?

But I agree that Pres Biden has learned his lesson. He won't demand that all international contractors leave Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Nigeria, Ghana, Niger, Camaroon, Chad, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Mali, Philippines, Kenya, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Tanzania, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, etc.

Many think that many fighters will migrate from Afghanistan to Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. Is the Iraqi Air Force (IqAF) ready:

Iraqi Air Force - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How many operational light attack turboprop aircraft does the IqAF have? What are their skews?:
---Cessna 208 (how many are attack variant)
---Lasta 95 (technically turbo-fan; how many are attack variant)
---PAC Super Mushshak (how many are attack variant)
---Beechcraft T-6 (how many are attack variants)
---Have I missed any?

The IqAF and Iraqi Security Force (ISF) cannot afford to use turbofan attack aircraft extensively for CAS in a prolonged war.

 

[Todjaeger]

Pres Biden unexpectedly insisted that all of the ANDSF's 18,000 contractors immediately leave on April 14th, 2021. Maybe there was a deal between Pres Biden and the Pakistani Army/Taliban . . . or it was incompetence?

Do you have a source for the above claim? The information which I can most closely match to the claim paints a somewhat different picture as there are some small but significant differences. The first is that as of May 6th 2021, the removal of contractors was underway, but it did not happen immediately. The second is that ~17,000 contractors mentioned which were in Afghanistan in April were Pentagon contractors, i.e. someone contracted by the US Pentagon to be in Afghanistan. If a foreign contractor was in Afghanistan but working independently of any contract from the Pentagon or other US organization or agency, the US would have had no say or involvement.

The same holds true for contractors operating in other countries. If the contractor is not a US citizen/permanent resident, or working for a US company, or contracted through a US organization or agency, or the US was paying the bills, the US cannot tell foreign contractors they have to leave.

 

[anan]

Do you have a source for the above claim? The information which I can most closely match to the claim paints a somewhat different picture as there are some small but significant differences. The first is that as of May 6th 2021, the removal of contractors was underway, but it did not happen immediately. The second is that ~17,000 contractors mentioned which were in Afghanistan in April were Pentagon contractors, i.e. someone contracted by the US Pentagon to be in Afghanistan. If a foreign contractor was in Afghanistan but working independently of any contract from the Pentagon or other US organization or agency, the US would have had no say or involvement.

The same holds true for contractors operating in other countries. If the contractor is not a US citizen/permanent resident, or working for a US company, or contracted through a US organization or agency, or the US was paying the bills, the US cannot tell foreign contractors they have to leave.

These 18,000 contractors were servicing Afghan MoD. It is possible that a few were servicing Afghan MoI, but I have no information about it. It is possible that they were all servicing Afghan MoD.

GIRoA and Afghan MoD requested that the contracts to service Afghan MoD transfer from NATO Resolute Force to Afghan MoD. President Biden unexpectedly refused this request. It is possible that the contractors would have demanded a larger fee for transferring the contract to Afghan MoD. It is also possible that this was President Biden's understanding with the Pakistani Army and Taliban. Whatever the case is--the ANDSF did not expect that this could happen.

The Afghans also needed a private contract company with transportation planes to transfer supplies into Afghanistan and from Army Headquarters to the regional ANA Corps (201st, 203rd, 205th, 207th, 209th, 215th, 217th Corps), and from the regional Corps to local airports that services specific ANSDF units.

The Taliban, assisted by Iran and the Pakistani Army cut off the land supply routes of the ANDSF to the west and the south and logistically squeezed the ANDSF until they could no longer function. The Pakistani Army was orchestrating the invasion and take down of the ANDSF--so Pakistani supply lines were unavailable.

The ANSDF ran out of fuel, equipment, spare parts, ammunition, supplies throughout the country--as expected. Only fraction of the necessary supplies were flown in. The AAF never had enough transportation aircraft to support the ANDSF. And many of even these few aircraft quickly became inoperable.

The Afghan government also requested time to withdraw their far flung forces to a more defendible military line--which again President Biden refused. Many ANDSF units in far flung locations with no supply lines were cut to pieces, one after another. They couldn't retreat because of encirclement.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fortunately none of this applies to Iraq. Iraq has reliable supply lines to Turkey, Iran, the Gulf, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan. None of these are enemies of the ISF or IqAF at this time. The IqAF also has 9 C130s, 6 Antonov An-32s; although I don't know how many of of them are operational. IMoD also extensively uses international contractors.

Plus I MoD and IqAF are not in a full scale conventional war at this time.

Having said this, in this discussion there was a warning that a major offensive against Iraq, Syria, Lebanon is probable:

One reason some think this is likely is that many violent Islamists are being encouraged to leave Pakistan and Afghanistan so that they don't cause destruction at home. Iraq, Syria, Lebanon are obvious places to go.

It could soon be game on for the IqAF. But the IqAF has a lot of capacity and international friends and allies.

 

[Todjaeger]

These 18,000 contractors were servicing Afghan MoD. It is possible that a few were servicing Afghan MoI, but I have no information about it. It is possible that they were all servicing Afghan MoD.

GIRoA and Afghan MoD requested that the contracts to service Afghan MoD transfer from NATO Resolute Force to Afghan MoD. President Biden unexpectedly refused this request. It is possible that the contractors would have demanded a larger fee for transferring the contract to Afghan MoD. It is also possible that this was President Biden's understanding with the Pakistani Army and Taliban. Whatever the case is--the ANDSF did not expect that this could happen.

The Afghans also needed a private contract company with transportation planes to transfer supplies into Afghanistan and from Army Headquarters to the regional ANA Corps (201st, 203rd, 205th, 207th, 209th, 215th, 217th Corps), and from the regional Corps to local airports that services specific ANSDF units.

The Taliban, assisted by Iran and the Pakistani Army cut off the land supply routes of the ANDSF to the west and the south and logistically squeezed the ANDSF until they could no longer function. The Pakistani Army was orchestrating the invasion and take down of the ANDSF--so Pakistani supply lines were unavailable.

The ANSDF ran out of fuel, equipment, spare parts, ammunition, supplies throughout the country--as expected. Only fraction of the necessary supplies were flown in. The AAF never had enough transportation aircraft to support the ANDSF. And many of even these few aircraft quickly became inoperable.

The Afghan government also requested time to withdraw their far flung forces to a more defendible military line--which again President Biden refused. Many ANDSF units in far flung locations with no supply lines were cut to pieces, one after another. They couldn't retreat because of encirclement.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fortunately none of this applies to Iraq. Iraq has reliable supply lines to Turkey, Iran, the Gulf, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan. None of these are enemies of the ISF or IqAF at this time. The IqAF also has 9 C130s, 6 Antonov An-32s; although I don't know how many of of them are operational. IMoD also extensively uses international contractors.

Plus I MoD and IqAF are not in a full scale conventional war at this time.

Having said this, in this discussion there was a warning that a major offensive against Iraq, Syria, Lebanon is probable:

One reason some think this is likely is that many violent Islamists are being encouraged to leave Pakistan and Afghanistan so that they don't cause destruction at home. Iraq, Syria, Lebanon are obvious places to go.

It could soon be game on for the IqAF. But the IqAF has a lot of capacity and international friends and allies.

I agree on seeing the comments from you that this is OT since this is an Iraqi not Afghan thread, however the quick answer to my question could simply have been to say, "No."

 

[anan]

Todjaeger, I don't follow. Do you mean that the contracts to service the ANDSF was let out by NATO Resolute Force? Yes, this is true. However President Biden refused to allow the transfer of contract from NATO Resolute Force to Afghan MoD. This was unexpected and widely percieved as a betrayal by Afghans and the ANDSF.

Remember that before the deal between the Taliban and USA, the ANA had never lost a major battle in Afghanistan:

Afghan National Army Lieutenant General Sami Sadat – Brown Pundits

www.brownpundits.com

"Before that deal, the Taliban had not won any significant battles against the Afghan Army. After the agreement? We were losing dozens of soldiers a day."

As you say this is an IqAF thread. You will remember that in 2012, the I MoD (Iraqi MoD) got to keep contractors after international forces left. These contractors were critical to facilitating the functioning of the IqAF and Iraqi Army. Plus the IqAF and Iraqi Army are vastly more capable now than they were in 2014.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

|"Defence minister Saadoun said in the video that the UAVs played a large role in the war against the Islamic State extremist group, but were put in storage in 2017 because of their age. A contract was signed with the manufacturer in 2021 to return them to service and the work began about a month ago, he said.

The Iraqi MoD unveiled the CH-4s in October 2015 but did not reveal how many it had acquired."|

So that means that when these chinese UAVs entered their second year of age, they were in the last year of their usage.
Are all chinese UAVs so durable and long-lasting?

Iraq returns CH-4 UAV to service

The Iraqi Army Aviation Command (IAAC) has returned its first Chinese-made CH-4 armed unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) to service, it was announced on 8 August, when...

www.janes.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

According to this article the al-Quwwat al-Jawwiya al-Iraqiya (IQAF, Iraqi Air Force) is in the advanced stage of acquiring twelve Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC)/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) JF-17 Thunder Block 3 lightweight, single-engine, multi-role combat aircraft at the cost of USD664 million.

|"The interest in the JF-17 dates back to at least 2020.......

The Pakistan Air Force Headquarters in Islamabad were also visited that same day and photos of the visits show a clear interest in the JF-17 Thunder."|

Buying 12 jetfighters for $664 million these days is incredible cheap, but still i don't understand the interest/wish to buy chinese fighters if they already have 36 new F-16IQ Block 52. The JF-17 is probably superior compared to the F-16. Or its because of political reasons.

Iraqi Air Force Thunders and/or Rafales?

Iraqi Air Force Thunders and/or Rafales? According to several social media reports, the al-Quwwat al-Jawwiya al-Iraqiya (IQAF, Iraqi Air Force) is in the advanced stage of acquirin...

scramble.nl

I have the feeling that ordering a second batch of T-50IQs (an FA-50 variant) will be more cost effective and practical.

 

[SABRE]

According to this article the al-Quwwat al-Jawwiya al-Iraqiya (IQAF, Iraqi Air Force) is in the advanced stage of acquiring twelve Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC)/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) JF-17 Thunder Block 3 lightweight, single-engine, multi-role combat aircraft at the cost of USD664 million.

|"The interest in the JF-17 dates back to at least 2020.......

The Pakistan Air Force Headquarters in Islamabad were also visited that same day and photos of the visits show a clear interest in the JF-17 Thunder."|

Buying 12 jetfighters for $664 million these days is incredible cheap, but still i don't understand the interest/wish to buy chinese fighters if they already have 36 new F-16IQ Block 52. The JF-17 is probably superior compared to the F-16. Or its because of political reasons.

Iraqi Air Force Thunders and/or Rafales?

Iraqi Air Force Thunders and/or Rafales? According to several social media reports, the al-Quwwat al-Jawwiya al-Iraqiya (IQAF, Iraqi Air Force) is in the advanced stage of acquirin...

scramble.nl

I have the feeling that ordering a second batch of T-50IQs (an FA-50 variant) will be more cost effective and practical.

At one point the IqAF showed a lot of interest in JF-17 but the reports gradually became sparse to the point where almost everyone believed the prospective deal had fallen through. IMO, the problem with several countries, including Iraq, evaluating JF-17, showing interest, and then apparently not going through with the procurement is the poor marketing strategy adopted by PAC and CAC where they would promote Block-III variant whereas they only had Block-II available for evaluation - although, Block-II is a pretty good for what it is intended for and has been battle proven. However, now there are Block-IIC with air-to-air refuelling and Block-III with AESA radar and ability to launch PL-15 available with PAF. Additionally, a lot of work is going into WS-13 engine, partly for JF-17 export variants. Since the induction of these two platforms some of the interested countries appear to be revisiting the aircraft.

I am, however, unaware if the IqAF has reopened the procurement bid. If so, good news for PAC and CAC. Their procurement has a lot to do with their mistrust of the US for long term logistics support for their F-16s and partly because Block-III has some features that are superior to that of F-16 Block 52.

 

[swerve]

I presume these superior features are in the avionics. Is that correct?

 

[SABRE]

I presume these superior features are in the avionics. Is that correct?

Yes, and some weapon systems as well. But - IMO - they are superior mostly in the sense that they are not available on the IqAF Block 52s or the Pakistani for that matter.

 

[SABRE]

Seems like Iraq might be acquiring 12 JF-17s

Iraq Might Buy Pakistan's JF-17 Fighter Or France's Rafale, Or Both

Baghdad is either exploring its options or plans on acquiring both combat aircraft.

www.forbes.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Seems like Iraq might be acquiring 12 JF-17s

Iraq Might Buy Pakistan's JF-17 Fighter Or France's Rafale, Or Both

Baghdad is either exploring its options or plans on acquiring both combat aircraft.

www.forbes.com

Irak was already negotiating about the JF-17s for a couple of years, but it is still surprising that they also seriously want to add Rafales. Their defence budget seems to be quite large.
|"...Baghdad is still interested in purchasing 14 Dassault Rafales ..."|
Its still just "interested"....

",,,,,its 34 American F-16C/D Block 52s, did not come with any AIM-120 air-to-air missiles, markedly limiting their potential for air defense....."
The US probably forced the Iraqi Air Force/government to buy their F-16s for a bad deal. Now Irak has to buy from china/pakistan and France to be able to defend their airspace in a decent way.

 

[ngatimozart]

Irak was already negotiating about the JF-17s for a couple of years, but it is still surprising that they also seriously want to add Rafales. Their defence budget seems to be quite large.
|"...Baghdad is still interested in purchasing 14 Dassault Rafales ..."|
Its still just "interested"....

",,,,,its 34 American F-16C/D Block 52s, did not come with any AIM-120 air-to-air missiles, markedly limiting their potential for air defense....."
The US probably forced the Iraqi Air Force/government to buy their F-16s for a bad deal. Now Irak has to buy from china/pakistan and France to be able to defend their airspace in a decent way.

Iraq are doing an Indonesia by diversifying their defence equip sources. It's a wise move because if they are sanctioned by either the US and / or the EU, they still have options.