Republic of Korea AF (ROKAF)

[Sandhi Yudha]

RoKAF loses Phantom II

RoKAF loses Phantom II A Dae Han Min Guk Gong Gun (Republic of Korea Air Force, RoKAF) F-4E Phantom II crashed into the Yellow Sea, on 12 August 2022, following a security mission,...

scramble.nl

The crash came as the airforce has been working on a plan to decommission the aging fleets of F-4s and F-5s this decade.

The South-Korean airforce still has around 150 F-5Es in its fleet, but it should be easily able to replace them with the FA-50.

 

[DDG38]

ROKAF F-16s participating in Exercise Pitch Black 22 in Darwin, Australia. (Source : ADF Image Library)

 

[Ananda]

Got this from Bemil Chosun on recent Korean DX. KAI shown concept for KF-21N, which basically KF-21 with Catobar or Stobar capabilities. I know media already talk on present ROK administration less enthusiats on funding CVX.

However with KAI still shown the concept, I suspect the notion for CVX still there. Moreover unlike the Japanese aproach with this KF-21N, they are not just looking for SVTOL carrier with F-35B. It is more on the area of what China and India developing for their carrier force concepts.

I suspect this can be indication that ROKN thinking of their CVX more to compatebility size with Indian Indigenous carrier Vikrant. Thus 40K class of potential 30 aircraft of Stobar or Catobar configuration.

Lets see how this is going to develop.

Add:

[BEMIL 현장사진] 대한민국 방위산업전시회(DX KOREA 2022) - 008 / ICEYE, SAAB, KE, EOST 등

[BEMIL 현장사진] 대한민국 방위산업전시회(DX KOREA 2022) - 008 / ICEYE, SAAB, 대한항공, EOST, 연합정밀, ......

bemil.chosun.com

[BEMIL 현장사진] 신형 M109A7 팔라딘 등 DX KOREA 2022 야외 전시장 풀사진

[BEMIL 현장사진] 신형 M109A7 팔라딘 등 DX코리아 2022 야외 전시장 풀사진 ...

bemil.chosun.com

Link to some compilation photos of Korean DX from Bemil Chosun.

From Naval News:

KAI unveils KF-21N carrier-borne aircraft at DX Korea 2022 expo - Naval News

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) unveiled a scale model of the KF-21N during DX Korea 2022. It is the carrier-borne version of the company's indigenous 4.5-generation fighter jet known as KF-21 / KFX project and is intended for the CVX aircraft carrier program.

www.navalnews.com

 

[ngatimozart]

Got this from Bemil Chosun on recent Korean DX. KAI shown concept for KF-21N, which basically KF-21 with Catobar or Stobar capabilities. I know media already talk on present ROK administration less enthusiats on funding CVX.

However with KAI still shown the concept, I suspect the notion for CVX still there. Moreover unlike the Japanese aproach with this KF-21N, they are not just looking for SVTOL carrier with F-35B. It is more on the area of what China and India developing for their carrier force concepts.

I suspect this can be indication that ROKN thinking of their CVX more to compatebility size with Indian Indigenous carrier Vikrant. Thus 40K class of potential 30 aircraft of Stobar or Catobar configuration.

Lets see how this is going to develop.

The KF-21 is looking more interesting as time goes by. I think that KAI and DAPA may have really thought this one through. However we will have to wait to see if this is so.

 

[John Fedup]

A larger carrier option seems likely if the KF-21N becomes a reality. A CATOBAR design allows other useful aircraft into the mix (Hawkeye, maybe F-35C if stealth is deemed necessary).

 

[Ananda]

Corea revive la idea del F-50, avión de combate derivado del FA-50

Durante una ceremonia realizada en la sede central de Korea Aerospace Industires (KAI), en la que se anunció la estrategia de desarrollo a seguir hasta el 2050

www.aviacionline.com

This Spanish/Latin America online aviation media talk about KAI want to revive F-50 project. This is the T-50 single seat LCA variance that KAI once offer to ROKAF for F-5 replacement. It is also as cheaper alternative if KFX being hold.

However then ROK DoD and ROKAF decide to continue with KFX and attract Indonesia as Junior partner. Thus the project being shelve. Seems now KAI sees potential of this dedicated LCA design again. Especially after some success in export market of FA-50.

FA-50 after all LCA that still based on T-50 airframes. F-50 is dedicated LCA. In sense if we back to BAE Hawk equivalent, F-50 is like Hawk 200. It is an LCA dedicated design, and not LIFT being tweek as LCA.

Let's see if KAI going to pursue this design again. I got sense they will aim as alternative to FA-50 on export market.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF) already operates four Boeing E-7A ‘Peace Eye' AEW&C aircraft, acquired in 2011–12 to expand its airborne surveillance and early warning infrastructure, and now South-Korea intends to add more.

South Korea to acquire new AEW&C aircraft to track North Korean missiles

Increasing North Korean ballistic missile activity has prompted South Korea to proceed with the planned acquisition of additional airborne early warning and control...

www.janes.com

Edit: i just saw in post #1 of @Ananda that they have this plan already more than two years ago.




The MC-X is a multirole concept that was first unveiled at the DX Korea exhibition in September 2022. The airframe has a length of 40,3 m and a wingspan of 41,1 m. It has a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of 92.000 kg and can take payloads of up to 30.000 kg.
And recently at MADEX 2023, Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has introduced a maritime patrol variant of its MC-X transport aircraft concept. No details are given yet about the to be installed equipment.

MADEX 2023: KAI introduces maritime patrol variant of MC-X transport aircraft

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has introduced a maritime patrol variant of its MC-X transport aircraft concept.

www.janes.com

 

[swerve]

That MC-X is slightly bigger than the C-390. So C-130 < C-390 < MC-X, then a bit of a jump to C-2 & A400M.

According to earlier reports, Boeing is offering more E-7 for the AEW requirement, SAAB a modified Globaleye, & a consortium led by L3Harris an IAI/Elta radar on Bombardier Global 6500.

Saab Unveils GlobalEye AEW Variant For South Korea | Aviation Week Network

Industry Leaders Join Forces to Offer Next-Gen Airborne Early Warning Capabilities for Republic of Korea

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

That MC-X is slightly bigger than the C-390. So C-130 < C-390 < MC-X, then a bit of a jump to C-2 & A400M.

According to earlier reports, Boeing is offering more E-7 for the AEW requirement, SAAB a modified Globaleye, & a consortium led by L3Harris an IAI/Elta radar on Bombardier Global 6500.

Saab Unveils GlobalEye AEW Variant For South Korea | Aviation Week Network

Industry Leaders Join Forces to Offer Next-Gen Airborne Early Warning Capabilities for Republic of Korea

I think the C-2 is suitable enough for AEW tasks, but it is unlikely that Japan will develop an AEW-variant of it with the amount of E-2s they ordered and already have in service. But maybe 10 years from now they have to start to think about it to replace the four E-767s in their fleet.

It is just funny that the Europeans never started a serious attempt in the last decades to develop an AEW variant of one of their own aircrafts.

 

[Redlands18]

I think the C-2 is suitable enough for AEW tasks, but it is unlikely that Japan will develop an AEW-variant of it with the amount of E-2s they ordered and already have in service. But maybe 10 years from now they have to start to think about it to replace the four E-767s in their fleet.

It is just funny that the Europeans never started a serious attempt in the last decades to develop an AEW variant of one of their own aircrafts.

Between NATO, France and the UK there was 29 E-3 Sentry's, mostly based in Europe, acquired, so no real requirement to develop a new system. There was an Israeli system fitted to A-310s offered to Australia as part of the program that was won by Boeing with the E-7A, the 3rd contender was the E-2 Hawkeye system fitted to the C-130J.

 

[ngatimozart]

It is just funny that the Europeans never started a serious attempt in the last decades to develop an AEW variant of one of their own aircrafts.

The British did; it was the Nimrod AEW program which was cancelled in 1986 due to significant cost overruns and the inability to get the radar to work.

Nimrod AEW3

The Nimrod AEW3 airborne early warning aircraft was developed from the Nimrod MR2 which was developed from the Comet airliner.

www.globalsecurity.org

 

[swerve]

The aircraft didn't have the space & power necessary for the radars, operators & consoles, & computers needed for the AEW system, IIRC, & the chosen computer didn't have the processing power needed, as the system grew in development.

One option considered was fitting the E-2 system on the Nimrod, which could have worked. But that was discarded & they tried to match the E-3, in a smaller aircraft.

 

[swerve]

It is just funny that the Europeans never started a serious attempt in the last decades to develop an AEW variant of one of their own aircrafts.

There's an AEW system flying, operational in eight air forces & on order for a ninth, & in service for many years (with improvements over the years: I don't think there's much left of the original now) which has been fitted to five different aircraft types (one of them just for development), two of which are European: Erieye. One of the operational aircraft types is Brazilian, one's Canadian, & the development platform was a secondhand American transport owned by the Swedish Air Force, IIRC.

The two European types are both Swedish.

 

[Redlands18]

South Korea selects Embraer C-390 Millennium - Australian Defence Magazine
Another win for the C-390 with ROK selecting it. Numbers have not been disclosed but the ROKAF currently operates 4 C-130J, 12 C-130H and 18 CN-235, the C-130J are less than 10yo so I would doubt they are being replaced.

 

[Ananda]

FA-50 단좌,스텔스형 모델 CG(밀.매들의 가상작품)

KAI가 수출 경쟁력 강화목적으로 자체적으로 FA-50 경공격기를 1인승 조종석인 F-50 경전투기로 개발한다는 소식을 접했었는데......

bemil.chosun.com

Let's see if KAI going to pursue this design again. I got sense they will aim as alternative to FA-50 on export market.

Close to a year ago (how time flies by) I put article on potential KAI will revisit their FA-50 single crew design. Design that they drop more then a decade ago (called it as F-50), when they decide to go big with current KFX design.

This assessment and graphic of Single Seat FA-50 or F-50, is not official and can be classified as enthusiast or fan boy graphic. However I have been watching Bemil Chosun for some years now. What they are putting usually turn out has base on real ROK MIC development. What they're putting is basically stipulate on potential seriousness for KAI on this design.

Personally for me, KF-21 turn out can be more expensive for most of potential market for Korean defense items. Which so far basically Global South or Eastern Euro. Those that basically so far looking for Korean as 'value for money' products. Thus FA-50 class range is what many so far willing to procure. If KF-21 turn out become on price range of Euro, US gen 4.5, will they still willing to invest in ROK items ?

Some Korean pundits already question whether KF-21 will be order more than 120 by ROK DAPA (thus basically replace all F-4 and only some F-5). With Indonesia as Junior Partner order of another 50 still in question (due to Indonesia flip flop commitment), the cost of KF-21 can be higher then previously expect. Then some in ROK already see this "F-50" can be the answer for overall F-5 replacement, while in same time also doing F-5 current job in ROKAF as LCA.

This F-50 can also potentially provide better performance then FA-50 as LCA. Just like Hawk 200 relative better performance as LCA compare using or modified Hawk 100 for that role. Personally with Indonesian flip flop commitment due to tech access issue, switching agreement to this F-50 (If ROK serious to work on this again) can be more attractive for Indonesian Aero Industry learning curve.

I do hope this concept can be seriously redevelop further by KAI. It is simply can be more attractive for potential market then potentially more expensive KF-21.

 

[koxinga]

The "stealth" FA-50 with airframe and engine change to F414 would be a revisit to KFX-E, the single engine configuration of the KFX. It will certainly be more expensive than a FA-50 Blk upgrade, something like a Gripen E compared to a Gripen C/D.

My assumption that DAPA went with the twin engine design for the KFX was the growth path (payload capacity, internal weapons bay). But indeed, on the commercial front it is tricky. Customers who can afford it would also have other Euro/US/russian options. Maybe they can target countries like Vietnam which leans heavily on Russia for the airforce, but US unlikely to see anything sophisticated.

 

[Ananda]

Will Vietnam willing to pay KF-21 if the costs turn out in similar range of Rafale, F-16V or even F-15? That's the question I'm pondering, base on assessment on Korea forums and media on actual costs of KF-21 will be. That's one of reasons why ROK still patience with Indonesia flip floping decisions. Not only due to cover 20% development costs, but more importantly to take that 50 order. As that's what being hope to push down the KF-21 price costs to be more competitive level.

Even then KF-21 will not be cheaper then Euro or US 4.5 gen competition. They can argue it is newer design, but still price is price. The other thing is also what happened now with Poland that expect more credit line from ROK, which so far ROK banks reluctant to cover all. That's related toward cheaper items like FA-50 and their Tanks, imagine if this is KF-21 deals. Global trade after all run with Credit Lines.

This is one of reasons that Indonesia also flip floping, as Indonesia also need to find potentially outside ROK FI that going to finance that 50 KF-21. Rafale procurement basically being provide credit finance by Paribas lead consortium. Will ROK FI able to cover whole, as Frenchie FI done? Looking to the credit financing problem on Poland deals, I rather doubt they willing to cover all.

So perhaps commercialy reviving F-50 early design (not the stealthy ones) can be more attractive from price costs perspective and credit financing availabilities.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Will Vietnam willing to pay KF-21 if the costs turn out in similar range of Rafale, F-16V or even F-15? That's the question I'm pondering, base on assessment on Korea forums and media on actual costs of KF-21 will be. That's one of reasons why ROK still patience with Indonesia flip floping decisions. Not only due to cover 20% development costs, but more importantly to take that 50 order. As that's what being hope to push down the KF-21 price costs to be more competitive level.

Even then KF-21 will not be cheaper then Euro or US 4.5 gen competition. They can argue it is newer design, but still price is price. The other thing is also what happened now with Poland that expect more credit line from ROK, which so far ROK banks reluctant to cover all. That's related toward cheaper items like FA-50 and their Tanks, imagine if this is KF-21 deals. Global trade after all run with Credit Lines.

This is one of reasons that Indonesia also flip floping, as Indonesia also need to find potentially outside ROK FI that going to finance that 50 KF-21. Rafale procurement basically being provide credit finance by Paribas lead consortium. Will ROK FI able to cover whole, as Frenchie FI done? Looking to the credit financing problem on Poland deals, I rather doubt they willing to cover all.

So perhaps commercialy reviving F-50 early design (not the stealthy ones) can be more attractive from price costs perspective and credit financing availabilities.

The single seat FA-50/F-50 will be indeed the most attractive choice for countries with a very limited defence budget.

I don't know if BAe still actively offers (and able to produce) the Hawk 200 to countries looking for a light/low cost fighter. The Aero L-159 is not really regarded as a fighterjet, and for many countries the JF-17 is not an option, but still they need a replacement for their F-5, MiG-21 or MiG-29. And for air forces like the TNI-AU or TUDM, their own Hawk 200s starts to become worn out and incapable to protect their territorial waters and EEZ.

So it would be a smart move if KAI seriously start the F-50 development, specially because the South-Korean Airforce still as more than 150 F-5s in its airfleet, before other manufacturers come with alternatives.

 

[koxinga]

Don't think BAe has offered the Hawk 200 anymore in the international market. The LIFT/LCA market at this stage and in the next decade will be competitive and BAe does not have any price advantage.

You have T-50 Golden Eagle/M346/T-7 Red Hawk on the western side, Russia / China options from YAK-130, Hongdu L-15, and national projects like Turkey TAI Hurjet, India HLFT.

As for the hypothetical F-50, my personal opinion, the biggest competitor is itself. If the F/A-50 Blk 20 + future upgrades is already able to do most of the missions, price wise, most customers will just stick to it.

 

[Ananda]

Seems base on that Bemil Chosun article, for potential one crew LCA, KAI have two option:

1. Going BAe way developing this F-50 as new design model, like Hawk 200 from Hawk 100. Typical F-50 design has similarities on how BAe derived Hawk 200 with reposition cockpit and redesign fuselage.



2. Going like Mitsubishi way when developing F-1 from T-2. Basically use the space from second seat for either more avionics or fuel spaces. Thus minimal redesign on basic fuselage from current FA-50



The 2nd is something they are putting during this year ADEX last October in Seoul.

KAI gets serious about single-seat version of FA-50

A single-seat version of the FA-50 will offer more room for fuel and reduce acquisition costs.

www.flightglobal.com

Either way, seems KAI give enough indication to seriously study one cockpit/single seat design for further development concept on their LCA.