The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
European leaders react to the latest terrorist bombing done by Russia, and increases the pressure to deliver offensive weapons.
The claims of this strike being terrorism are nonsense. Even if you take Ukraine's version of events, they shot down a Kh-22, which then fell into a residential building. Russia claims this was a failed S-300 launch by Ukrainian air defenses. Note, given the size of the explosion Ukraine's version of events is far more likely. But to claim this was a terrorist bombing by Russia you would have to believe Russia and Ukraine are lying, and Russia intentionally targeted a residential apartment building, presumably at random, with an expensive cruise missile, while Ukraine is covering this up by claiming to have downed the missile, causing it to hit the house.


Apparently previous claims of Kh-22 intercepts were lies.


Footage of the missile falling.


The building in question had ~200 registered residents. Casualties are likely to be in double digits. So far we have 9 killed, and 60 wounded.


General footage from the scene.

 

ngatimozart

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Whilst the Ukrainian govt may label Russian attacks on its infrastructure and population "terrorist" it behoves us to avoid the term here. Such attacks have been part of modern warfare in the last 100 years and it will most likely be so in the future. Remember that both Ukraine and Russia use such emotional terms in their propaganda and we don't need to encourage further dissemination of either sides propaganda.
 

ngatimozart

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@Feanor I see in one off your posts above that you mention a Ukrainian ZSU23-2. I saw a photo over the weekend of a Ukrainian ZSU23-4 SPAAG, I think near Bakhmut. Both of those might be old platforms but they still pack a punch and will definitely ruin an enemies day. I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.
 

Feanor

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@Feanor I see in one off your posts above that you mention a Ukrainian ZSU23-2. I saw a photo over the weekend of a Ukrainian ZSU23-4 SPAAG, I think near Bakhmut. Both of those might be old platforms but they still pack a punch and will definitely ruin an enemies day. I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.
I'm still curious why nobody has come up with a good way to apply the lessons learned from Soviet use of AAA against infantry in Afghanistan. The BMPT in its current iteration simply doesn't. An MBT chassis, with all the associated protection levels but multiple autocannons in the turret would be quite interesting.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
View attachment 50007
From Suny, UA irregulars most likely. Full on Syria civil war vibes
In principle using technicals is not the worst idea. Ukrainian mobile teams on light armor or unarmored vehicles did quite the numbers on Russian lines in what is now the Oskol front. The problem with using S-8 or indeed any aircraft missile pod is their extremely poor accuracy. At least for the Soviet ones, they were designed with the speed of the launching aircraft in mind. In other words, to get stability in flight they need a higher speed then what their own engine delivers. And here you not only don't have the speed of the launching aircraft, you actually have to fight against gravity. the USSR experimented with using S-8 rocket pods on vehicles in Afghanistan to fire up-hill on ambushing Mujahadeen forces and found the accuracy too poor to bother with.
 

ngatimozart

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The Chechin Volunteer Battalion of the Ukrainian Armed Forces have created an improvised RPG-7 warhead using fire extinguishers. They remove the dry powder filling and replace it with HE and some shrapnel, depending upon the recipe. Has a range of about 100m but that's enough to hit a Russian trench, troops etc., with. Quite ingenious way of significantly increasing the warhead size and HE capacity.


I'm still curious why nobody has come up with a good way to apply the lessons learned from Soviet use of AAA against infantry in Afghanistan. The BMPT in its current iteration simply doesn't. An MBT chassis, with all the associated protection levels but multiple autocannons in the turret would be quite interesting.
I agree and not just Russian or Ukrainian forces either. It's something that western armies should seriously consider, especially since their mobile GBAD is pitiful. 30mm auto cannons would be ideal and slap some MANPADS on the side of the turret.
 

Feanor

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StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
From Suny, UA irregulars most likely. Full on Syria civil war vibes
Well that is a nice branded ARB towhitch, led light and bullbar. Nice to see some Australian made technical tactical equipment on the battlefield.
I look forward to ARB rocketpods and machine gun mounts available in store here in Australia.
 

Morgo

Well-Known Member
They cannot fire both autocannons at the same time. It literally didn't apply the main lesson learned from the ZSU-23-4. Of course it also doesn't have any serious protection on the turret.
.... what's the point then? Better thermal management of the barrels? Just to look cool?
 

Feanor

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Staff member
.... what's the point then? Better thermal management of the barrels? Just to look cool?
High rate of fire/thermal management of the barrels. The effectiveness of the ZSU-23-4 against infantry was dictated by the effect of many low-caliber autocannon hits in a small area. They could take apart cover, and put out a lot of fire power in very little time, sweeping broad areas. Their ability to elevate weapons also made them ideal for engaging up-hill, and would likely have worked well in urban environments against the top stories of buildings.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update. Dec 16th-19th

Kherson-Nikolaev-Krivoy Rog.

A apartment building in Krivoy Rog got hit, with civilians casualties of 2 dead, 5 wounded. Context unclear at this time.


Ukrainian forces using a copter to drop an artillery shell on Russian forces on the Kinburn peninsula.


More footage of the damage to the city administration office in Kherson region.


Zaporozhye-Dnepropetrovsk.

Russian strike hitting DneproGES.


Shaheds over Dnepropetrovsk.


Russian Grad ops, Zaporozhye region.


The North.

Shahed-136 in Kiev.


One of the targets was the Antonov factory.


A damaged substation in Kiev region. It was repotedly hit in the Dec 16th strikes.


A fallen Kalibr missile in Kiev region, unclear if shot down or failed on its own.


Oskol Front.

Novoselovskoe, allegedly two abandoned Ukrainian tanks and two abandoned BTR-4s. It's possible the vehicles are knocked out.


Russian AGS-17 fires in Novoselovskoe.


Combat footage from inside Novoselovskoe, on the Svatovo axis. This village is south-east of Kupyansk and this is part of a pattern of a creeping Russian advance moving back towards Kupyansk.


Destroyed Ukrainian vehicles on the Kupyansk axis, we have a BMP-1, allegedly one of the Greek ones, and two destroyed T-64BVs.


Reportedly 15 Ukrainian POWs taken in Lugansk region.


Allegedly another Ukrainian POW from the 66th Brigade.


A burned out building in Saltovka, Kharkov region. Note the lights. There are still people living there.


LDNR Front.


Ukrainian forces firing HIMARS M30A1s at Russian positions near Artemovsk/Bakhmut. Note the impact patterns.


Allegedly knocked out Ukrainian BMP-1 and MT-LB, a result of a reported failed counter-attack at Artemovsk/Bakhmut. I can't make out the MT-LB, I can see what looks like a BMP-1.


Ukrainian trenches in the center of Artemovsk/Bakhmut.


Allegedly a Ukrainian MBT getting hit by ATGMs. The first seems to immobilize it, the second hit takes out the tank. Soledar area.


Ukrainian vehicle, allegedly an Osa SAM, getting hit by a loitering munition near Artemovsk/Bakhmut.


A Ukrainian M777 getting taken out near Chasoviy Yar, a town directly west of Artemovsk/Bakhmut.


Two destroyed Ukrainian Iveco Lynx MRAPs, I believe one is the one we saw before, above.


Ukraine's 57th brigade complaining that they're being sent into battle without proper support, with only assault rifles, Artemovsk/Bakhmut.


DNR artillery allegedly taking out a Ukrainian mortar position near Kamenka.


More footage from the outskirts of Peski. Ukrainian forces attempt a counter-attack on rebel positions there but fail. We have 8 Mastiff MRAPs and 2 T-64BVs involved in the attack, and DNR Somalia btln defending. They use a combination of artillery fires and quadcopter munition drops to rebel the attack.


DNR 11th Rgt takes out a Ukrainian car with an ATGM near Pervomayskoe.


DNR 100th Bde in action against the village of Nevel'skoe, west of Peski.


DNR tankers in Mar'inka.


Russian tanks in Mar'inka. Note the roof cages, we haven't seen these in a while.


Russian forces report gaining ground on Mar'inka, claiming they now control 80% of the town.


Ukrainian PzH-2000 firing illumination rounds towards Donetsk.


Shelling of Donetsk continues, a Czech RM-70 detonator is found at the scene of recent strikes. This might mean the recent Grad strikes against the center of Donetsk were done by those. Reportedly a hospital was one of the objects that got hit. Other objects hit include a sports arena and a dormitory.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Russia.

Ukrainian strike on Belgorod, Russian air defenses firing. 4 civilians reported wounded. HARMs were used as part of the strike.


Recent Russian air defense fires in Belgorod have left Pantsyr booster stages behind.


A chicken farm in Belgorod got hit in a recent Ukrainian strike.


The village of Krasnaya Yaruga in Belgorod region also got hit.


Trenches and fighting positions on Crimean beaches.


Russian volunteer unit training in Belgorod region. I believe this is a territorial defense militia being formed.


Russian volunteers training in Gudermes on AGS-17s.


Misc.

Russian tank from the 127th MRD takes out a Ukrainian RPG operator at close range.


Russian loitering munition takes out a Ukrainian P-18 radar.


Ukrainian M777 getting taken out by a loitering munition.


Ukrainian Krab howitzer getting hit by a loitering munition.


Allegedly a Ukrainian tank getting hit by a Forpost UCAV, though I can't make out what's getting hit. Location and context unclear.


Ukrainian YPR-765 gets hit by an RPG but survived and continues action. Location unclear.


Russian T-90M getting hit by a Ukrainian Stugna ATGM.


Ukrainian MANPADS teams attempting to down cruise missiles but failing.


A destroyed Ukrainian SNAR-10 artillery recon station, location and context unclear.


A knocked out Ukrainian MLS Shield armored car.


Ukrainian 2S7 operations.


Ukrainian M113A2 mortar in action.


Ukrainian forces column with 2 YPR-765s and 2 BMP-3s.


A scarce Russian T-80BVM in Ukraine.


Ukrainian T-55S, in the 47th Bde.


Another shot of the Ukrainian PRP/BMD-2 hybrid.


NATO/EU.

Reportedly Greece is ready to hand over SAMs to Ukraine if the US provides Patriots on Crete as a replacement.


Bulgaria has reportedly delivered SPG-9 clones to Ukraine.

 

ngatimozart

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Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
.... what's the point then? Better thermal management of the barrels? Just to look cool?
Weight of shell, meaning more shells on target at the same time. That's the raison d'etre for multiple barrel weapons. The RN when it had multiple guns of the same calibre used broadsides because they are more destructive than each gun firing independently. For example if you had an 8in cruiser with 4 triple gun turrets, that's 12 x 8in (203mm) shells arriving at the target simultaneously. Greater chance of serious or fatal damage rather than each of the 12 guns banging away on its lonesome, with shells arriving at different times and hitting all over or around the target.
 

Vivendi

Well-Known Member
The UK announced a new package, consisting of:

  • A squadron of Challenger 2 tanks with armoured recovery and repair vehicles.
  • AS90 guns. This comprises a battery of eight guns at high readiness and two further batteries at varying states of readiness.
  • Hundreds more armoured and protected vehicles will also be sent including Bulldog.
  • A manoeuvre support package, including minefield breaching and bridging capabilities worth £28 million.
  • Dozens more uncrewed aerial systems worth £20 million to support Ukrainian artillery.
  • Another 100,000 artillery rounds; on top of the 100,000 rounds already delivered.
  • Hundreds more sophisticated missiles including GMLRS rockets, Starstreak air defence missiles, and medium range air defence missiles.
  • An equipment support package of spares to refurbish up to a hundred Ukrainian tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.
Defence Secretary oral statement on war in Ukraine - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

There will be another meeting in Ramstein this week to discuss donations to Ukraine -- this announcement was probably made before the meeting to "set the tone" and put pressure on countries who are still struggling to commit to sending MBTs. The Ramstein meeting will be important, since it will give an indication for how Western donations to Ukraine for 2023 will play out.

Russia scoffs at Western tanks, saying they "will burn like the rest". Kremlin Scoffs at UK Tanks for Ukraine, Says 'Will Burn Like the Rest' (businessinsider.com)

This statement is in my opinion quite interesting, since many in Germany and elsewhere have been very concerned that Russia will consider Western tanks to be a major escalation. It seems quite clear that at least officially, Russia does not consider this a major escalation.

In other news, the US have started Patriot training of Ukrainian soldiers: Ukrainian troops in US for patriot training: US military | Al Arabiya English

US expanded military training in Germany started last Sunday: Expanded US training for Ukrainian forces begins in Germany : NPR
 

ngatimozart

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Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Two videos on the structure of the Ukrainian mechanised armour units.


Ukrainian concern about the current Russian / Belarussian air exercises in Belarus.

Task & Purpose video on the M2A2 Bradley being sent to Ukraine. Raises some interesting points.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
It is PR. I mean, what 14 Challengers can achieve? If Russia states that dozen Challengers are a major threat, then it loses face. And I don't think Russia is interested in escalation either.
The UK decision sort of opened the door for other NATO members to start offering Leo2s, kit that can very useful for Ukraine should Russia try for a new offensive in the spring.
 
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