Canada Defence Force

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
1654654530784.png
Source: NZDF.

This is the NZDF contingent at Sunday 5/6/2022 Queen's Platinum Jubilee Pageant Parade in London. The Maori taua (warrior group) leading the contingent was made up of NZDF personnel and made an impression on the locals. Word through back channels has it that they also made an impression on the Canadian Defence group who participated in the Parade. They were quite impressed with how the Maori culture was very much evident within NZDF and how the taua was received. There was talk from the Canadians that they may have to look at inclusion of First Nations culture in their Forces ceremonial at least. It does stand out and differentiate you as a group in such a setting, but including such a cultural dimension within your military also adds a new dimension that improves the military as a group. We have noticed here that the inclusion of Maori cultural activities such as haka, and areas / values such as marae (meeting / gathering areas) have given personnel greater pride in their service and themselves. It would be interesting to see what Canadian Defence comes up with if they decide to follow suite.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
If it is a straight replacement for ADATS its interesting in comparison to what Australia is aiming for.

ADATS if my understanding is correct is VSHORAD so you would have Canada producing a VSHORAD system while Australia as far as I am aware skips VSHORAD and goes straight to SHORAD for $1.5b (NASAMs) , a Medium ranged system (likely Patriot) for $4.9-7.3b and then a ballistic, hypersonic missile defense for $15.8-23.7b
I think ADATS has a maximum range of about 10k, but everyone seems to be replacing SAMs with longer range ones nowadays. The British army & Royal Navy picked CAMM (officially "more than" 25km) to replace Rapier (8km) & Seawolf (10km increased from 6.5), for example, & Italy is replacing Aspide (20-25 km) by CAMM-ER (>40km) in the Spada & Albatros systems. The definitions of short & very short have been changing.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Just another sad commentary on Canada’s dysfunctional military procurement. At least we ordered some F-35s finally but I am sure the acquisition rate will suck until junior is long gone.

First one due 2026 and whole lot received 2032 - 2034.

"The first deliveries of these aircraft are anticipated to begin in 2026, and we anticipate that we will reach Full Operational Capability with our entire fleet between 2032 and 2034." .

 

Mikeymike

Active Member
Canada has announced they are purchasing a NASAMs set for Ukraine for ~$400m.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/nati...Gu7gYjoSYJGn8a3CA3Pe3Bwj3Kae_NxBHuF3tLnjJjFEQ

Most of the domestic Canadian news I have seen regarding it has focused on the fact that the Canadian Army has been without air defence for years and will be without until 2026/27.

Really highlights what can be done when you don't have to follow the procurement rules.
 

Vanquish

Member
Canada has announced they are purchasing a NASAMs set for Ukraine for ~$400m.

Canada buys Ukraine $400M air-defence system; Canadian Army still waits for such equipment

Most of the domestic Canadian news I have seen regarding it has focused on the fact that the Canadian Army has been without air defence for years and will be without until 2026/27.

Really highlights what can be done when you don't have to follow the procurement rules.
I'm quite happy that Canada is buying and supplying this for Ukraine. Terrible shame though that Canada can't seem to find a way to buy this equipment for itself though.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
So CAF leadership is concerned about being left out of AUKUS, shit who would have thought? Sometimes military leaders need to step up and shit on their political masters, a career ending move but if enough of them step up, the public will likely note (hopefully). Canada has industrial capabilities( including nuclear) that would be useful but given our deadbeat performance it is understandable why we are not worthy of membership. I am surprised the other FVEY members bother with Canada and NZ.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Not hard to envision cuts to DND given junior's alliance with the socialist NDP which keeps him in power. The NDP can be expected to exert more pressure for additional unaffordable benefits for their whining supporters. Years of economic mismanagement (especially during COVID) leave few areas to extract funding from. Reducing money to DND will be less risky for both of these parties. Still well below the NATO 2% currently so it will be interesting to monitor reaction from allies.

Battle looms between Canadian defence officials, decision-makers after federal budget (msn.com)
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Not hard to envision cuts to DND given junior's alliance with the socialist NDP which keeps him in power. The NDP can be expected to exert more pressure for additional unaffordable benefits for their whining supporters. Years of economic mismanagement (especially during COVID) leave few areas to extract funding from. Reducing money to DND will be less risky for both of these parties. Still well below the NATO 2% currently so it will be interesting to monitor reaction from allies.

Battle looms between Canadian defence officials, decision-makers after federal budget (msn.com)
Has Jnr increased taxes in recent times? That's usually part of a centre left govt's go to tool box.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Has Jnr increased taxes in recent times? That's usually part of a centre left govt's go to tool box.
Yes, taxes have increased but deficit budgets are his MO. Provincial governments aren't much better. Will likely be depressing for any new government when they get an honest look at the books in Ottawa.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
A recent poll says over 60% of Canadians support 2.0% GDP on defence. Can’t get very excited as the poll says the 18-34 age group doesn’t. Maybe they will change as they get older or the geopolitical situation worsens, who knows. Won’t be around to see if they change or not.


Most Canadians support increasing defence spending to reach the two per cent target set by NATO allies, according to a national survey conducted by Nanos for CTV News.
About two thirds of Canadians support increasing defence spending to reach NATO target: Nanos
 

TocsinData

New Member
These kinds of polls are very unreliable as they tend to target thier market base, rather then a true spectrum across the interest itself. I'm willing to bet that the younger generation is at odds with supporting NATO, but I also believe that demograph will change as they become more aware of what it really going on in the world outside thier myoptic worldview.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Although not strictly a defence issue, it is surprising (actually not) that no political party here has suggested upgrading fire fighting and evacuation aviation assets. CL 515 water bombers are made in Canada. As many other countries are facing wild fire threats, these planes, CH-47s, and suitable used large commercial jets for conversion to fire fighting will be increasing in price and delivery times. Junior, asleep at the wheel along with all the available alternatives, what a surprise!
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Although not strictly a defence issue, it is surprising (actually not) that no political party here has suggested upgrading fire fighting and evacuation aviation assets. CL 515 water bombers are made in Canada. As many other countries are facing wild fire threats, these planes, CH-47s, and suitable used large commercial jets for conversion to fire fighting will be increasing in price and delivery times. Junior, asleep at the wheel along with all the available alternatives, what a surprise!
That's standard for HM loyal Canadian opposition as well.
 

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
A poll suggesting things are not looking good for junior. The interesting take is the ranking of important issues for those polled. Defence totally absent. Also, the Ontario Conservative government is in deep $hit over a land deal involving Greenbelt land deals. Hard to say how this might influence Conservative chances federally in Ontario. IMHO, the conservative leader will ignore defence to almost the same extent as junior, typical Canadian polllie behaviour.


Justin Trudeau hammered by devastating polls just before Parliament reconvenes (msn.com)
 
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