Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force Thread

[Salinger]

Japan weighs hypersonic missile deployment by 2030 to boost deterrence

Japan weighs hypersonic missile deployment by 2030 to boost deterrence

Chinese and North Korean threat spurs push for stronger counterstrike capability

asia.nikkei.com

TOKYO -- Japan's Defense Ministry is considering the deployment of hypersonic missiles by 2030, seeking to bolster counterstrike capabilities to deter regional threats as the war in Ukraine transforms the global security landscape.

Hypersonic missiles fly at five times or more the speed of sound and on a more complex trajectory than ballistic missiles, making them difficult to shoot down. Given North Korean and Chinese advancements in missile capabilities, Japan believes it needs to be able to not only intercept incoming projectiles, but to strike back if necessary.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

A video of Japan's international fleet review is available. It has subtitles and announcements in English, so pretty helpful for non-Japanese speakers. Worth having a look through - some nice up-close footage of the new Mogami class and lots of other vessels.

 

[Salinger]

Japan to remodel surface-to-air missiles to intercept hypersonic arms

Japan to remodel surface-to-air missiles to intercept hypersonic arms - The Mainichi

TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Japan is planning to remodel its existing surface-to-air guided missiles so that they can intercept hypersonic glide weapons, which a

mainichi.jp

The Type-03 missiles with a firing range of tens of kilometers were adopted by the GSDF in 2003 to intercept airplanes. The missiles were first remodeled in 2017 to deal with cruise missiles flying at low altitudes and fast-moving incoming projectiles.
In the planned remodeling, the abilities of the Type-03 missiles will be improved to predict the flight path of hypersonic weapons and track them as well as to detect them by radar, the source added.
But it remains uncertain whether the remodeled missiles will allow Japan to counter hypersonic weapons, the source said, as the race among major military powers to develop hypersonic weapons has been intensifying and technologies are expected to continue to advance.

 

[ngatimozart]

Japan to remodel surface-to-air missiles to intercept hypersonic arms

Japan to remodel surface-to-air missiles to intercept hypersonic arms - The Mainichi

TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Japan is planning to remodel its existing surface-to-air guided missiles so that they can intercept hypersonic glide weapons, which a

mainichi.jp

The Type-03 missiles with a firing range of tens of kilometers were adopted by the GSDF in 2003 to intercept airplanes. The missiles were first remodeled in 2017 to deal with cruise missiles flying at low altitudes and fast-moving incoming projectiles.
In the planned remodeling, the abilities of the Type-03 missiles will be improved to predict the flight path of hypersonic weapons and track them as well as to detect them by radar, the source added.
But it remains uncertain whether the remodeled missiles will allow Japan to counter hypersonic weapons, the source said, as the race among major military powers to develop hypersonic weapons has been intensifying and technologies are expected to continue to advance.

We have an expectation that posters add value to a post rather than just copying and pasting from a source. That's part of the rules. In future please provide at least two lines of text as to why you are posting something and why you think that it's important.

You are posting some good source material and it's really great to see a regular poster from Japan. Just some commentary and thoughts from you is all that is required. Such commentary and thoughts help us all to learn and understand.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Japan to downsize planned Aegis destroyers to increase mobility

The ships had been planned to have a displacement of about 20,000 tons, almost the same as the MSDF's largest vessel. That could be scaled down to around 8,200 tons.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Japan is considering downsizing two destroyers to be built with the Aegis ballistic missile interceptor system from their original design in a bid to increase their mobility, government sources have said.

While the destroyers were principally designed to protect against ballistic missiles, the government also plans to make them multipurpose vessels capable of carrying the U.S.-developed Tomahawk cruise missile, which it is considering introducing, the sources said Tuesday.

The government originally planned to build destroyers with a standard displacement of about 20,000 tons, almost the same as the Maritime Self-Defense Force’s largest ship, the carrier Izumo. But now they will be scaled down to nearly on par with the 8,200-ton Maya, the nation’s biggest Aegis-equipped vessel, the sources said.

After internal discussions, the MSDF has concluded that the new destroyers can be downsized while maintaining the necessary air defense capabilities, according to the sources. Through the remodeling, the government aims to improve the two ships’ interoperability with other MSDF vessels, including the existing eight MSDF Aegis destroyers, and enable their swift deployment to waters such as those off Okinawa Prefecture, where tensions have grown over the Taiwan Strait, the sources said.

......

Hopefully this will put to bed the ideas that the MSDF is going to field a multi-hull ship or mobile platform.

It always seemed obvious to me that they were going to eventually go with a large destroyer. The specifications mentioned before were always clarified as upper limits, not exact. I've long thought that this wasn't just about BMD but also getting the navy another two large surface combatants that could engage in a variety of duties.

As to the exact size of the ship, I would not assume a modified Maya, it could be somewhat bigger e.g. 12,000 tons full load.

 

[T.C.P]

Japan to downsize planned Aegis destroyers to increase mobility

The ships had been planned to have a displacement of about 20,000 tons, almost the same as the MSDF's largest vessel. That could be scaled down to around 8,200 tons.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Hopefully this will put to bed the ideas that the MSDF is going to field a multi-hull ship or mobile platform.

It always seemed obvious to me that they were going to eventually go with a large destroyer. The specifications mentioned before were always clarified as upper limits, not exact. I've long thought that this wasn't just about BMD but also getting the navy another two large surface combatants that could engage in a variety of duties.

As to the exact size of the ship, I would not assume a modified Maya, it could be somewhat bigger e.g. 12,000 tons full load.

Now I am sad, I really wanted to see a heavy Modern Missile Cruiser. I dont know if there are any other such big ships around, other than the old Kirovs. Even the Chinese new 55 class destroyers are less than 15k tons. If the type 55 has 100 VLS cells, one can only imagine just how many you could have packed into the originally planned 20k ton one.

 

[ngatimozart]

Now I am sad, I really wanted to see a heavy Modern Missile Cruiser. I dont know if there are any other such big ships around, other than the old Kirovs. Even the Chinese new 55 class destroyers are less than 15k tons. If the type 55 has 100 VLS cells, one can only imagine just how many you could have packed into the originally planned 20k ton one.

So you want a big hull to put 100 plus VLS tubes on? It actually costs money to fill those tubes and each warload out could be in excess of US$250 million per ship depending upon the missile loadout and number of tubes.

 

[T.C.P]

So you want a big hull to put 100 plus VLS tubes on? It actually costs money to fill those tubes and each warload out could be in excess of US$250 million per ship depending upon the missile loadout and number of tubes.

I know, the 20000 ton thing looked unbelievable, but thats why I wanted to see it. And if a nation like Japan was going to make it, then they would have made it well and kitted it properly. I am not a Japanese tax payer, so it wouldnt hurt my wallet, but the 13 year old fan boy of big war ships that still resides inside me, would have loved to see it.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

According to several Japanese media reports, like NHK and Yomiyuri Shimbun, the Japanese government is seriously considering the procurement of Tomahawk long-range cruises missile from the United States.


According to Japan’s public broadcaster NHK, the reason why the Japanese government is considering the purchase of Tomahawk is that it cannot wait to deploy domestically produced long-range cruise missiles in the face of recent heightened security threats. The Japanese Ministry of Defense (MoD) is currently in the process of extending the range of the Type 12 surface-to-ship missiles deployed by the Ground Self-Defense Force (JGSDF), from the current 200 km to a maximum of 1200 km. However, the Type 12 SSM with this enhanced capability will not be deployed until 2026, which is believed to be too late to respond to the threats from China and North Korea. Vehicles, ships, and aircraft are all being considered as the launch platform for such missiles.

This is a quite remarkable development, totally in another direction than the course of for decades strictly following Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution, which prohibits Japan from establishing a military or solving international conflicts through military violence.

トマホーク搭載の潜水艦を視野、「実験艦」新造を検討…防衛大綱に開発方針記載へ

【読売新聞】　政府は、長射程ミサイルを発射可能な潜水艦の保有に向け、技術的課題を検証する「実験艦」を新造する方向で調整に入った。年末までに改定する防衛計画の大綱に開発方針を盛り込む見通しだ。実戦配備に進めば、米国政府に購入を打診して

www.yomiuri.co.jp

 

[ngatimozart]

Yes, it's being discussed at the cabinet level. I have been following it in the Japan Times. Article 9 has already been stepped around by the Japanese govt in recent times. The JSDF now is able to use deadly force for the defence of itself and its partners in overseas operations.

 

[StingrayOZ]

I know, the 20000 ton thing looked unbelievable, but thats why I wanted to see it. And if a nation like Japan was going to make it, then they would have made it well and kitted it properly. I am not a Japanese tax payer, so it wouldnt hurt my wallet, but the 13 year old fan boy of big war ships that still resides inside me, would have loved to see i

Its being made large to accommodate the radar and stay at sea for a long time, not in particular to have it fire a massive volley of missiles.

Yes, it's being discussed at the cabinet level. I have been following it in the Japan Times. Article 9 has already been stepped around by the Japanese govt in recent times. The JSDF now is able to use deadly force for the defence of itself and its partners in overseas operations.

Yes, I don't think article 9 is a problem for this. Tomahawk is a logical choice. The Japanese have missiles, and this is just a longer ranged one. I would expect a local production line, in combination with immediately delivered units.

It makes more sense to just acquire Tomahawk, and perhaps further jointly develop it with the US, rather than start an entirely new missile family. Another production line is also a good idea, we see now in war, munitions, even with modern guidance and accuracy, are used up very quickly.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Yes, it's being discussed at the cabinet level. I have been following it in the Japan Times. Article 9 has already been stepped around by the Japanese govt in recent times. The JSDF now is able to use deadly force for the defence of itself and its partners in overseas operations.

Yes, the two decades Japan start to become less passive and pure defensive and becoming more assertive, with joining UN-missions and the the procurement of weapon systems designed for operations further away home.

But getting the Tomahawk is still a huge step forwards. Maybe a step too far for some Japanese peace-loving hippies. (And for chinese peace-loving hippies too!)

Its being made large to accommodate the radar and stay at sea for a long time, not in particular to have it fire a massive volley of missiles.


Yes, I don't think article 9 is a problem for this. Tomahawk is a logical choice. The Japanese have missiles, and this is just a longer ranged one. I would expect a local production line, in combination with immediately delivered units.

It makes more sense to just acquire Tomahawk, and perhaps further jointly develop it with the US, rather than start an entirely new missile family. Another production line is also a good idea, we see now in war, munitions, even with modern guidance and accuracy, are used up very quickly.

I think its quite unlikely that Japan will get approval for domestic licence production of the Tomahawk. As far as i know it is only produced in the US, even the UK has to buy them from the US.

But yes, adding the Tomahawk to supplement the Type 12 (with a current range of 200-400 km) will be great. And if the US refuse to sell them to Japan, Japan can probably get the AGM-158C LRASM (Long Range Anti-Ship Missile).

 

[StingrayOZ]

I think its quite unlikely that Japan will get approval for domestic licence production of the Tomahawk. As far as i know it is only produced in the US, even the UK has to buy them from the US.

There isn't anything particularly special about tomahawk other than its range. The UK was quite a small buy, only ~65.. Only fired from submarines.. They have fired some, then they put in another order for 64 newer ones.

Japan is going to want more than ~60 odd if they want to be comprehensive. But its not clear to me if they intend to continue to acquire TLAM or still make a much longer range Type 12, possibly heavily based off TACTOM. Many Japanese weapons are heavily based off US weapons with their own local Japanese improvements and modifications.

The fact that there is only one source, is a significant production bottleneck.
China has lots of long range cruise missiles, Japan seems to be classifying these as counterfire missiles.

But yes, adding the Tomahawk to supplement the Type 12 (with a current range of 200-400 km) will be great. And if the US refuse to sell them to Japan, Japan can probably get the AGM-158C LRASM (Long Range Anti-Ship Missile).

While there is overlap, they are different. LRASM is useful, but not integrated into many of their air platforms.
They looked at it before, and it was going to take time to integrate it and acquire it.

We are now at the period where countries have concerns that purchases now, may not be operational until after they are needed. Japan wants things operational generally before 2026.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A video about JMSDF's International Fleet Review which was held in Sagami Bay on 6 December.

Video: JMSDF's International Fleet Review - Naval News

An International Fleet Review was held in November in Sagami Bay under clear skies to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the JMSDF...

www.navalnews.com

Bonus photo.....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601973609978789893

 

[SolarisKenzo]

Japan’s MHI Launches ‘Agano’ 「あがの」Sixth FFM Mogami-Class Frigate for JMSDF - Naval News

Japanese shipbuilder Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) in Nagasaki launched today "Agano", the sixh Mogami-class vessel for the JMSDF.

www.navalnews.com

 

[alexsa]

Japan’s MHI Launches ‘Agano’ 「あがの」Sixth FFM Mogami-Class Frigate for JMSDF - Naval News

Japanese shipbuilder Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) in Nagasaki launched today "Agano", the sixh Mogami-class vessel for the JMSDF.

www.navalnews.com

If you had read post #484 then you would know we have an expectation that posters add value to a post rather than just copying and pasting from a source. That's part of the rules. In future please provide at least two lines of text as to why you are posting something and why you think that it's important.

 

[Redlands18]

Japanese MoD releases further details about its future BMD destroyers - Naval News
The JMSDF has released an image and some info of the proposed Aegis ship, now referred to as ASEVs(Aegis system-equipped vessels). The image shows a large vessel, with 64 cells forward and 32 cells midships, they will be equipped with SM-6, Type 12 SSM, and possibly hypersonic missiles down the road. Commissioning target is 2027-28.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Japanese MoD releases further details about its future BMD destroyers - Naval News
The JMSDF has released an image and some info of the proposed Aegis ship, now referred to as ASEVs(Aegis system-equipped vessels). The image shows a large vessel, with 64 cells forward and 32 cells midships, they will be equipped with SM-6, Type 12 SSM, and possibly hypersonic missiles down the road. Commissioning target is 2027-28.

With a planned dimensions of 210 meters long and 40 meters wide and with a standard displacement of 20,000 tons and a crew of about 110 people, we can say that these giants will be as long as the Project 68bis Sverdlov Class cruisers, wider than the Yamato Class battleships and heavier than the 16DDH Hyūga Class helicopter carriers. With just 110 persons of crew it will be also highly automated.

But the amount of VLS-cells is a little bit disappointing, compared to other Japanese destroyers.

 

[SolarisKenzo]

I have doubts about the size of the destroyers.
I think the "old" plan for a Kirov-class size cruiser is/will be scrapped.
The latest news from japanese government officials link here was about a Maya-class size destroyer, with focus only on BMD and missile-capability.

I seriously doubt they have to build a 210m behemoth ( considering that no one wants to build a big ship if not needed ) just to fit more electronics and an advanced ABM system.

Also, for a vessel with the focus only on BMD and not on anti-ship warfare, 96 cells ( possibily filled with mostly SM3 and SM6 missiles) are more than enough.
Never forget that 96 cells on the Arleigh Burke class are filled with TOMAHAWKs, ESSM, SM2, SM3, SM6 ans ASROC).

So, I think that a 10 000 tons, 96 VLS ship is absolutely balanced and able to perform its mission.
Of course, if they will end up building a 10k, 12k, 16k or 21k tons destroyer, no one knows yet.
But they surely wont build a big ship if they dont really need to.
Huge cruisers are too espensive to operate, even for a solid country like Japan... ( look at the Kirov class, CGN of course, but still...)

 

[Redlands18]

This is the picture provided by the Japanese MOD for the ASEV, it looks to be an unusual design, and is not a small ship definitely bigger than a Burke based ship and don't forget the entire crew are getting state rooms and that definitely will drive up the size.