A400m

[Sandhi Yudha]

"A replacement for the C-130 and CN235". Sounds like France, Germany and Sweden need something smaller than an A400M, maybe also to fill the gap of the retired C-160. They can actually also go for the C295 or C-27J.

France, Germany, Sweden launch future transport aircraft

France, Germany, and Sweden have agreed development of a new fixed-wing medium-lift transport aircraft, it was announced on 30 June.

www.janes.com

 

[John Fedup]

"A replacement for the C-130 and CN235". Sounds like France, Germany and Sweden need something smaller than an A400M, maybe also to fill the gap of the retired C-160. They can actually also go for the C295 or C-27J.

France, Germany, Sweden launch future transport aircraft

France, Germany, and Sweden have agreed development of a new fixed-wing medium-lift transport aircraft, it was announced on 30 June.

www.janes.com

Can’t read the entire article but it seems to me to be a waste of R&D funds for (I assume) something between a C295 and a C-130. Why not just buy some for Hercs. Buying K390s from Brazil would likely be less expensive and risky. A welfare project for Airbus perhaps?

 

[kato]

Can’t read the entire article but it seems to me to be a waste of R&D funds for (I assume) something between a C295 and a C-130.

It's about the PESCO project FMTC, also called - in France - "Medium Transport and Assault Aircraft" (ATASM). The idea is to basically have a C-130 successor for 2040, with possibly some slightly earlier aircraft for the C-235 and C-130H replacement in the French Air Force.

Intended size is same as a C-160, C-130J-30 or C-27J, with the French looking at a intended payload of 18-20 tons. Current C-235 and C-130H used in the French Air Force are also horribly maintenance heavy in their opinion, which is something they seek to address.

And of course it's money for Airbus. Nothing to do with welfare though.

Airbus has a concept study of sorts that fits it, originally called A200M, now called A410M. Currently it's basically a slightly shortened A400M with two instead of four turboprop engines, which are in return laid out slightly more powerful. Max payload 25 tons with significantly more range than a C-130, profile-wise closer to a C-390.

 

[John Fedup]

It's about the PESCO project FMTC, also called - in France - "Medium Transport and Assault Aircraft" (ATASM). The idea is to basically have a C-130 successor for 2040, with possibly some slightly earlier aircraft for the C-235 and C-130H replacement in the French Air Force.

Intended size is same as a C-160, C-130J-30 or C-27J, with the French looking at a intended payload of 18-20 tons. Current C-235 and C-130H used in the French Air Force are also horribly maintenance heavy in their opinion, which is something they seek to address.

And of course it's money for Airbus. Nothing to do with welfare though.

Airbus has a concept study of sorts that fits it, originally called A200M, now called A410M. Currently it's basically a slightly shortened A400M with two instead of four turboprop engines, which are in return laid out slightly more powerful. Max payload 25 tons with significantly more range than a C-130, profile-wise closer to a C-390.

Any guesses on the price differential between a A400M and an A410M? In theory the A410 seems like an impressive and superior alternative to a C-130. Given the fact this new model would share a lot of DNA from the A400M, development should be ok…but many unpleasant memories on the A400M saga are still fresh.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Can’t read the entire article but it seems to me to be a waste of R&D funds for (I assume) something between a C295 and a C-130. Why not just buy some for Hercs. Buying K390s from Brazil would likely be less expensive and risky. A welfare project for Airbus perhaps?

In that case developing an upgraded C295 (new engines, enlarged fuselage and wings) would be more cost effective and faster than developing an new aircraft from scratch.

 

[the concerned]

Why doesn't airbus look into creating something larger than the A400m aswell. With Antonov and the C-17 out of production they will need replacing.

 

[ngatimozart]

Why doesn't airbus look into creating something larger than the A400m aswell. With Antonov and the C-17 out of production they will need replacing.

Look at the A400M saga and ask yourself why. Also would there be a need for it within Europe? The only current European operators of the C-17A are the RAF with eight and the Strategic Airlift Capability with three. I don't think that a potential market of three aircraft makes it worthwhile or even 11 if the UK decided to participate.

Airbus has a concept study of sorts that fits it, originally called A200M, now called A410M. Currently it's basically a slightly shortened A400M with two instead of four turboprop engines, which are in return laid out slightly more powerful. Max payload 25 tons with significantly more range than a C-130, profile-wise closer to a C-390.

That sounds interesting. But given Airbus's history with its military aircraft side my 8 year old grandson maybe close to getting his pension before it becomes FOC.

 

[the concerned]

If you looked into military and civil operations. Once the current 124's retire what is there to replace them.

 

[ngatimozart]

If you looked into military and civil operations. Once the current 124's retire what is there to replace them.

There is talk of Antonov building new 124s with western engines, avionics etc.

 

[John Fedup]

There is talk of Antonov building new 124s with western engines, avionics etc.

That has been a long running conservation that has gone nowhere. I recall some here pushing for that option when we made our C-17 purchase years ago. Doubtful that Antonov can finance any new builds at this time due to the war.

 

[the concerned]

With the push to have Ukraine in the EU would a option be for Airbus to try and buy Antonov or bring in into a European conglomerate.

 

[John Fedup]

With the push to have Ukraine in the EU would a option be for Airbus to try and buy Antonov or bring in into a European conglomerate.

That is a possibility and perhaps an alternative to developing a A410M. I believe Antonov has something similar that could be westernized by Airbus. I imagine Ukraine would look forward to Antonov becoming involved with Airbus (involvement with FCAS likely a bridge to far).

 

[swerve]

There's the An-178, a twin-engine 50 ton transport which flew in 2015 but doesn't seem to have got much further. Is that what you mean?

 

[John Fedup]

There's the An-178, a twin-engine 50 ton transport which flew in 2015 but doesn't seem to have got much further. Is that what you mean?

Yes, might be a candidate for what the three nations want. Western avionics and engines on a An-178 might be a faster option than a A410M but would require Airbus money and resources.

 

[Ananda]

Embrear wants Boeing as partner on C390 asside selling majority stakes on E series. As the deal break down, it is better Airbus talk with Embrear on C390 deal. It is better then trying to revive any Antonov design and productions. Whatever the result of this war, Antonov future practically close to dead anyway.

The only potential way to revive Antonov is to sell it to Airbus and Airbus reroute the production outside Ukraine. Let whatever left of Antonov in Ukraine doing MRO job from their existing customers. This also can only happen if after this war, Kharkiv still in Ukraine hands.

 

[John Fedup]

I am sure Embraer would welcome some kind of marketing/distribution agreement with Airbus but Airbus likely wants to build a plane in Europe.

 

[kato]

Airbus has tested a firefighting kit on an A400M in Spain:

Airbus successfully tests firefighting kit on A400M

Airbus has successfully tested a removable firefighting demonstrator kit on the A400M new generation airlifter during a flight test campaign in Spain.

www.airbus.com

43 Grupo, mentioned in the link, is the Spanish Air Force unit operating their CL-215 fleet.

I am not sure whether this kit isn't actually identical to the one AKKA Technologies announced last month (below), i.e. whether this is a test for the AKKA kit on A400M. That one has been under development between French engineering company AKKA, German aircraft component company PFW and specialist firefighting kit company Rosenbauer for about a year now. Performance keys look virtually identical and timing is about right for a 11-month rapid development to prototype.

The Airbus A400M soon to be used as a firefighting aircraft ?

The Airbus A400M soon to be used as a firefighting aircraft ?. AKKA Technologies has just developed a turnkey conversion solution to be able to add a new auxiliary capability to the Airbus A400M, the C295 and the CN-235 military transport aircraft,

www.journal-aviation.com

AKKA has existing contracts for A400M support with the Spanish Air Force and has former Airbus D&S staff on their payroll.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Airbus has tested a firefighting kit on an A400M in Spain:

Airbus successfully tests firefighting kit on A400M

Airbus has successfully tested a removable firefighting demonstrator kit on the A400M new generation airlifter during a flight test campaign in Spain.

www.airbus.com

43 Grupo, mentioned in the link, is the Spanish Air Force unit operating their CL-215 fleet.

I am not sure whether this kit isn't actually identical to the one AKKA Technologies announced last month (below), i.e. whether this is a test for the AKKA kit on A400M. That one has been under development between French engineering company AKKA, German aircraft component company PFW and specialist firefighting kit company Rosenbauer for about a year now. Performance keys look virtually identical and timing is about right for a 11-month rapid development to prototype.

The Airbus A400M soon to be used as a firefighting aircraft ?

The Airbus A400M soon to be used as a firefighting aircraft ?. AKKA Technologies has just developed a turnkey conversion solution to be able to add a new auxiliary capability to the Airbus A400M, the C295 and the CN-235 military transport aircraft,

www.journal-aviation.com

AKKA has existing contracts for A400M support with the Spanish Air Force and has former Airbus D&S staff on their payroll.

On 21 July 2022, during a test in Guadalajara, Central Spain, the A400M released 20 tons of water in less than 10 seconds. As a comparison, the Grumman S2F Tracker can carry up to 3,5 tons of water, while the Canadair CL-415 has a capacity of 6 tons. Converted C-130 Hercules transport aircraft using the Modular Airborne Fire Fighting System (MAFFS) can release up to 11 tons.

So yes, with this the A400M will become an even more usefull aircraft for countries with forest fires every year like Spain and Indonesia.

 

[kato]

On 21 July 2022, during a test in Guadalajara, Central Spain, the A400M released 20 tons of water in less than 10 seconds. As a comparison, the Grumman S2F Tracker can carry up to 3,5 tons of water, while the Canadair CL-415 has a capacity of 6 tons. Converted C-130 Hercules transport aircraft using the Modular Airborne Fire Fighting System (MAFFS) can release up to 11 tons.

The AKKA kit is planned to be mountable on CN-235 and C-295 as well, and in that version would have a capacity similar to the CL-415.
Difference is of course that you have to refill at an airfield with proper infrastructure for water supply, instead of the CL-215/415 advantage of just scooping the water up.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

So first they retire and sell all the C-130Js in the fleet, and then the United Kingdom has scrapped plans to acquire additional Airbus A400M Atlas airlifters, saying it is no longer affordable.

UK scraps additional A400M buy as ‘unaffordable'

The United Kingdom has scrapped plans to acquire additional Airbus A400M Atlas airlifters, saying it is no longer affordable.

www.janes.com