Middle East Defence & Security

[Big_Zucchini]

Israel reportedly attacked via drones an Iranian facility containing hundreds of drones.
It is claimed Iran's attack on an American site in Erbil, Iraq, was in response to this incident, and not the killing of 2 officers in Syria.

Israel decimated Iranian drone fleet in February airstrike inside Iran – report

Attack said to destroy hundreds of drones near Kermanshah, prompting this week's revenge missile fire at Iraq site alleged to have launched UAV-destroying mission

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[STURM]

Israel was also hit by a cyber attack? Any opinions on who was behind it? I could be wrong but cyber attacks are not an Iranian speciality are they?

 

[Big_Zucchini]

Israel was also hit by a cyber attack? Any opinions on who was behind it? I could be wrong but cyber attacks are not an Iranian speciality are they?

It was hit, no other candidate but Iran. It didn't last long at all, as I entered one of the downed websites shortly after the attack was announced and it was up.

 

[STURM]

Mod edit: Misinformation contained in an article, deleted. Discuss in good spirit & there would be no need for a moderator to further intervene. No sanctions applied at this time, due to past contributions.

When arguing a point, keep your punches clean and reconsider your approach — avoid colouring this thread with politics in a geo-strategic discussion. Please accept my apologies for this slightly heavy handed approach.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

This article contains a lot of disinformation, or outdated information.

The cap on non-Jewish immigrants was 25k, not 5k, and is now being further raised. Proportionately to its population, that's more than many European countries have accepted, and at least most European countries I looked up have a refugee cap.

There is also no entry fee. That is outdated, and any Ukrainian that paid it was refunded days ago.

This cap is also not really representative of reality. Israel has made preparations to receive over 100k Jewish Ukrainian refugees. So the total is much higher than 25k.
Reason why it even has a cap is because its laws regarding refugees, and their care package, were made in the framework of them becoming citizens, which is a function of them being Jewish and entitled to the Law of Return, also a common law in Europe. That is because Israel has dealt with massive Jewish refugee waves in the past. Not non-Jewish ones. So it's a new situation.


Israel has provided with probably more support than even some European countries despite being an ocean away from it, and despite never receiving any such support in its fight against Iran and regional terrorists.
It is uniquely positioned to mediate between Ukraine and Russia, which in itself is a huge contribution.

Diplomatic conflicts arose between Israel and Ukraine, when Ukraine's ambassador to Israel, himself a controversial figure, started condemning Israel for actions that were devised and coordinated with him personally.



We've seen a media attack on Israel in this war, despite Israel's substantial contributions, most of which remain hidden like the release of Ukrainian mayors detained by Russia. Much of the criticism is totally unrealistic demands similar to the NFZ calls.

This is hypocritical, choosing beggars style, both when it comes from Europe where only a select few are actually assisting and working and whom have been silent and inactive in their help to Israel vs Iran, and the rest of the world which certainly does not provide anywhere near the same amount of aid as Israel.

Sometimes I'm really conflicted whether Israel should publish some of it policies and activities, because of the seriously bad PR that is endangering its citizens abroad, or help quietly so more could be done practically. In this case a quiet but practical support is the only way.

Ask an Israeli if he supports Ukraine and he'll say yes. But ask that same citizen if he thinks Israel should be far outspending every European country on defense, should allow to be demanded, not requested, to take a very anti-Russian stance when Europe is largely neutral on Iran, and you might get a very different answer.

All in all, the Al Jazeera article seems to be very much in line with its policies - villify Israel no matter what, and use disinformation to do so.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

An opinion piece in ToI:

Why Israel’s fear of Russia in Syria doesn’t have to drive its Ukraine policy

During the War of Attrition, Israeli pilots killed dozens of Soviets in Egypt in order to protect the country's security interests; today, Jerusalem's stance is far more timid

www.timesofisrael.com

The writer says Israel's fear of Russian response in Syria should not drive Israeli Ukraine policy.
A very brief explanation of his opinion:
Israel was not reluctant to down Soviet planes and kill Russians in Egypt during Israel's war with the latter, and even made it a matter of policy at times.
Said attacks on Soviet assets and personnel did not escalate things with the USSR, and even created another deterrent. USSR's nuclear status did not come into play.
Israel could similarly choose to take a strong stance against Russia, and ignore deconfliction with Russia in Syria if Russia threatens Israel, or Israeli military assets.

The writer does not seem to address the issue of whether such a stance in light of Israel's negligible effect on Russia's economy, is worth losing the mediator status which is of strategic importance to Ukraine.

Personally I think remaining a mediator is worth the neutrality. And after the war is over, I believe a more aggressive and active approach to the region is necessary, and I believe I was consistent in this advocacy for quite a while.
Israel is not unilaterally deterred by Russia. It's mutual deterrence. To see how far Russia is willing to escalate when the IDF operates in a way that disregards Russia's interests and security, we first have to test the waters. Worst case we can back down.
It should be added this is said in the context of Russia already committing acts of war against Israel, including jamming and disrupting communications inside Israel.

This is not to antagonize Russia - but to avoid situations where we have to sacrifice some of our security to appease Russia, and not let Russia be a factor in cancelled strikes on Iranian assets.

 

[STURM]

This ar; contains a lot of disinformation, or outdated information

I expected that reaction from you.

Nonetheless it did contain various bits that I found interesting. No doubt if I had posted an opinion piece which was full of praise for Israel the reation from you would have been somewhat different.

Nonetheless if you say some of the info presented was misleading or out of date; I'll take your word for it.

All in all, the Al Jazeera article seems to be very much in line with its policies - villify Israel no matter what, and use disinformation to do so

It was the writer's opinion. About so called vilification of Israel as policy all I can say is that just because a news outlet publishes stuff critical of Israel; which does not place Israel in a good light or stuff which you personally disagree with; doesn't necessary mean it has a policy of vilifying Israel or is anti-Israeli. Similarly merely because they criticise Israel or certain Israeli policies; goyims and non Israelis are routinely labelled anti -semite/Israeli/Jewish . Nobody is or should be above scrutiny or criticism when it's warranted.
.
You've given your opinion; I've given mine.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

Nonetheless it did contain various bits that I found interesting. No doubt if I had posted an opinion piece which was full of praise for Israel the reation from you would have been somewhat different.

It's not about praise or condemnation. It's about the attitude of choosing beggars we've seen for the duration of this war, coupled with inaction on Europe's part to assist Ukraine even from entirely selfish motives, and the hypocrisy of demanding help and providing none in return. Worst of them all is how entire continents are willing to let thousands of people die and STILL draw the wrong lessons from it.

Assuming I would be defensive because Israel is being condemned is wrong. It does still appear that way because we've seen the following:
1. Israel being disproportionately highlighted when it's not even in Europe.
2. The over reliance on disinformation to achieve that goal.

It all accumulated to a general level of annoyance on my part at the issue, and I certainly did not expect someone on this forum to unironically quote Al Jazeera on that.

It was the writer's opinion. About so called vilification of Israel as policy all I can say is that just because a news outlet publishes stuff critical of Israel; which does not place Israel in a good light or stuff which you personally disagree with; doesn't necessary mean it has a policy of vilifying Israel or is anti-Israeli.

When it expressly uses ONLY false information to further their goal, we know it does so not to provide information to the public, but to shape opinion on an entity around a lie.
We've seen RT getting banned for it. We've seen TASS banned for it. And Al Jazeera is no different from them.
Being a Qatari mouthpiece, and aligned with Hamas, a terrorist organization, we should not expect any form of unbiased coverage from it.
You wouldn't quote RT, Sputnik, or TASS on American policies, would you?


I think there are far better things to cover in this thread relating to the middle east than condemning Israel for making the biggest contributions against Russia so far.

 

[STURM]

we should not expect any form of unbiased coverage from it.
You wouldn't quote RT, Sputnik, or TASS on American policies, would you?

If you say so. BTW I don't place Al Jazeera in became category as RT, Sputnik, or TASS. Also unbiased coverage is not unheard of in Al.Jazeera. Again; just because it publishes stuff critical of Israel; which does not place Israel in a good light or stuff which you personally disagree with; doesn't necessary mean it has a policy of vilifying Israel or is anti-Israeli.

Being a Qatari mouthpiece, and aligned with Hamas, a terrorist organization

Funny that but you're sounding like a mouthpiece now. Or will suggest I'm also a Jazeera, Qatari or Hamas mouthpiece merely because I post stuff from Al Jazeera,and have opinions which differ greatly from yours?

I think there are far better things to cover in this thread relating to the middle east than condemning Israel for making the biggest contributions against Russia so far

You post what you want to and I'll do the same on my part. The article also wasn't about condemnation [as you put it] and I posted it beause it contained stuff of interests; irrespective of whether you agree or not..

 

[Big_Zucchini]

US and Iran keep speeding toward a JCPOA, but this time much worse, according to all recent reports.

The US is set to remove the IRGC's terrorist designation in return for a promise of regional de-escalation. The huge influx of money from IRGC's delisting is expected to vastly escalate the conflict, in yet another ironic turn of events for Biden.
It is therefore assumed by some that Biden is merely seeking to de-escalate between the US and Iran, at the cost of escalating between Iran and US allies.

The deal itself represents the next step in a very long series of failures of American policy.

US concessions in nuclear talks a boon to Iranian, Russian economies

The US is considering the possibility of removing the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ designation as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.

m.jpost.com

Some uplifting news perhaps. Israel's accelerated laser defense program is taking shape and a contract not for development, but acquisition, is finally about to be signed in the next few days.
Such a system, when deployed in large quantities around Israel's borders, is set to change the paradigm versus Hamas. This time, any rocket fired by Hamas would be substantially costlier for Hamas, not to Israel.

Although defensive in nature, it is expected to create significant deterrence versus Hamas, Hezbollah, PIJ, and other regional terrorist organizations.

Israel to begin procurement of laser-based rocket defense

Defense Ministry would allocate hundreds of millions to finalize development of groundbreaking defense system which is expected to become operational in the coming years

www.ynetnews.com

 

[STURM]

It is therefore assumed by some that Biden is merely seeking to de-escalate between the US and Iran, at the cost of escalating between Iran and US allies.

Depends on which "allies". Some of them want the JCOA and an improvement with ties with Iran.

The huge influx of money from IRGC's delisting is expected to vastly escalate the conflict

It' policy and kvetching which determines whether the IRGC escalates things; not a lack of money. Iran's economy is in shambles but the IRGC has the means to.do what it needs to.

The deal itself represents the next step in a very long series of failures of American policy.

To you. To me a lessening of tensions with Iran is a major step towards a more stable region and is mutually beneficial to Iran and the U.S; not to mention the various U.S. non regional.and regional allies who would stand to benefit.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

You post what you want to and I'll do the same on my part. The article also wasn't about condemnation [as you put it] and I posted it beause it contained stuff of interests; irrespective of whether you agree or not..

So if it's not supposed to condemn, and if all the information there is false, what's the point in it?

which does not place Israel in a good light or stuff which you personally disagree with; doesn't necessary mean it has a policy of vilifying Israel or is anti-Israeli.

Are we talking about the same Al Jazeera that claimed Israel murdered the entire Gaza strip by opening its dams which do not even exist?

False ‘Israel drowns Gaza’ claims sweep internet

Residents of Strip forced from homes after winter storm, and Jerusalem is blamed for opening invisible dams

www.timesofisrael.com

Al Jazeera "redacted" it, conveniently long after the damage was done.

Al Jazeera is certainly not short of airing outright antisemitic and anti-Israeli content.
One which was mentioned there and I personally remember is how they hailed Samir Kuntar a hero for killing Israeli civilians.

Al Jazeera controversies and criticism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Big_Zucchini]

Depends on which "allies". Some of them want the JCOA and an improvement with ties with Iran.

I said regional allies, not European "allies".

EDIT:
More news, this time Assad visiting UAE.
The US's neglect of the region and its allies to forward its own economical interests, is bearing some fruits.
US is reportedly angry with Assad's visit, despite a change of policy in the gulf being very expectable around the JCPOA.

US ‘profoundly disappointed’ by UAE hosting Syria’s Assad

Washington urges allies not to normalize ties with a regime that has carried out 'horrific atrocities'

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[STURM]

So if it's not supposed to condemn, and if all the information there is false, what's the point in it?

Sorry but who said that "all" the Info is "false"? Just be cause you may think so doesn't mean it is so. Also Jazeera reports on incidents or certain Israeli.policies and at times it may be biased but certainly not always false as you claim. "

More news, this time Assad visiting UAE

That is realpolitik at play. The Gulf Arabs doing what they have to in line with their own interests.They tried and failed to.do away with Assad so they have to deal with him. Same with Iran; the decades long policy of isolating and weakening Iran has led to nowhere; a major reason why the Gulf Arabs are talking openly with the Iranians; something unlikely in the past - mutually beneficial.

Syria’s Assad visits UAE in first trip to Arab state since 2011

Bashar al-Assad meets the rulers of Abu Dhabi and Dubai in first visit to an Arab state since the Syrian war erupted.

www.google.com

"With the war having fallen into a deadlock and Assad recovering control over most of the country thanks to military assistance from allies Russia and Iran, a number of Arab countries have inched closer towards restoring ties with Assad in recent years."

"A key motive for some of the Arab countries of the Gulf, such as the UAE and Saudi Arabia, is to blunt the involvement of their foe, Iran, which saw its influence expand rapidly in the chaos of Syria’s war."

"The UAE reopened its embassy in Syria in late 2018 in the most significant Arab overture toward the Assad government, though relations remained cold. Last fall, the Emirati foreign minister flew to Damascus for a meeting with Assad, the first visit by the country’s top diplomat since 2011. The United States, a close Emirati partner, criticised the visit at the time, saying it would not support any normalisation with Assad’s government"

US is reportedly angry with Assad's visit

Hardly surprising is it? They see It as presumptuous, as strengthening Iran's hand and would probably have liked to be consulted beforehand. UAE policy towards Russia has also not pleased the Americans. Assad is also a Russian ally; as you're aware.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

Even more talk about conscription being outdated in Israel. Unfortunately, this does not yet translate to public talk. The last we heard about conscription was in 2021, and it died down very quickly.

https://strategicassessment.inss.org.il/en/articles/the-legitimacy-crisis-of-the-conscription-model/

Sorry but who said that "all" the Info is "false"? Just be cause you may think so doesn't mean it is so

I do. Every claim made there can be either refuted, or seen as contradictory to the spirit of the article.
Notice you're basically quoting Richard Silverstein there, a known and discredited conspiracy theorist. He's not a journalist.

He claims in the headline itself that Israel is indifferent to Ukrainian suffering, and that is also an easily refutable lie.

Also Jazeera reports on incidents or certain Israeli.policies and at times it may be biased but certainly not always false as you claim. "

Once poor journalism and blatant lies, always poor journalism and blatant lies.
Al Jazeera has a horrible reputation for a reason. You can easily acquire information from much more reputable sources, especially when it's a conspiracy theorist authoring their articles.
If the information is true, chances are it's going to appear elsewhere, including reputable sources.

The boy who cried wolf. At some point there WAS a wolf. But his cries for help were pointless because none believed him anymore, and that's the essence of it. True information told by liars has no value.

That is realpolitik at play. The Gulf Arabs doing what they have to in line with their own interests.They tried and failed to.do away with Assad so they have to deal with him. Same with Iran; the decades long policy of isolating and weakening Iran has led to nowhere; a major reason why the Gulf Arabs are talking openly with the Iranians; something unlikely in the past - mutually beneficial.

There is no peace with Iran for the UAE, and Iran delivered this message to them.
It wasn't long ago that Iran conducted strikes on strategic Emirati infrastructure in the context of their talks. This is no peace. This is intimidation and domination.
This sort of relaxed approach to aggression is part of why Russia was emboldened to invade Ukraine.

UAE could have interests of its own - have Assad replace Iran's influence with Emirati one.

Hardly surprising is it? They see It as presumptuous, as strengthening Iran's hand and would probably have liked to be consulted beforehand

The US loves being consulted. It praises its allies for keeping it always updated on their policies. Yet has a horrible track record of returning the favor by informing of its own decisions, especially when they are utterly destructive for the region.

The US is putting itself in a very bad strategic posture. It promotes itself under the rationale that it's irreplaceable, but nothing more.

UAE policy towards Russia has also not pleased the Americans. Assad is,also a Russian ally; as you're aware.

I'm honestly surprised American policy toward Russia isn't just sanctions.

 

[STURM]

I said regional allies, not European "allies".

And I said - "Depends on which "allies". Some of them want the JCOA and an improvement with ties with Iran.

Let me explain further; by and large the Europeans and Gulf Arabs want an improvement in ties with Iran and a nuclear deal is part of that.

 

[STURM]

There is no peace with Iran for the UAE, and Iran delivered this message to them. It wasn't long ago that Iran conducted strikes on strategic Emirati infrastructure in the context of their talks. This is no peace. This is intimidation and domination.

Yet talks have not been permanently cancelled and both sides still see the value in talks.

UAE could have interests of its own - have Assad replace Iran's influence with Emirati one

Of course it does [jusr likeable Israel for its own interests would rather not see improved U.S/Gulf Arab ties with Iran or Russia,with improved U.S/Syria ties]] but they can supplement but never replace Iranian ties which are deep rooted with Syria for a variety of reasons. Both are considered heretics by the majority Sunnis and Iran hasn't forgotten that Syria stood by it throughout the war with Iraq. The Iranians also see Lebanon as providing strategic depth and they need a friendly Syria for that.

Al Jazeera has a horrible reputation for a reason. You can easily acquire information from much more reputable sources, especially when it's a conspiracy theorist authoring their articles

That's your opinion; not mine. I also make a distinction between Al Jazeera English and Al Jazeera Arabic.

Also [we can go on if you wish] not all of what he said was false and my comments were in reference largely to Al Jazeera not the article per see. BTW no news outlet is completely infallible or unbiased; including of course several other major ones which go out of their way not to offend Israel.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

The world is full of non-equal things. An approach of "everyone is guilty" is destructive.

 

[STURM]

An approach of "everyone is guilty" is destructive.

That may be so but an approach that some are more right than others or have a monopoly on truth, justice and suffering is delusional, self serving and downright wrong.

 

[Big_Zucchini]

Do you think North Korea and South Korea are equal? Russia and UK? China and USA?