NZDF General discussion thread

[Gooey]

MINDEF is missing in action, disinterested in his portfolio, and floundering with internal politics whilst the world is on fire and his NZDF is starved of funding and its personnel used as security guards. Our warfighting capability has been reduced to 1 30-year-old frigate and a few 55-year-old aircraft. He didn't even mention the Dec 2021 NZ Defence Assessment which acknowledged the threat CCP presents to the South Pacific.
With this clown, Minister Mahuta, and the PM, there is literally zero chance that there will be a recognition of our vulnerability and responsibilities or that we will retain our privileged position in Five Eyes.
COVID has already produced a 2-year hibernation sleep for NZ and I am increasingly aware that the current mob are hell-bent on identity politics navel-gazing rather than actually leading this crazy nation.

 

[ngatimozart]

MINDEF is missing in action, disinterested in his portfolio, and floundering with internal politics whilst the world is on fire and his NZDF is starved of funding and its personnel used as security guards. Our warfighting capability has been reduced to 1 30-year-old frigate and a few 55-year-old aircraft. He didn't even mention the Dec 2021 NZ Defence Assessment which acknowledged the threat CCP presents to the South Pacific.
With this clown, Minister Mahuta, and the PM, there is literally zero chance that there will be a recognition of our vulnerability and responsibilities or that we will retain our privileged position in Five Eyes.
COVID has already produced a 2-year hibernation sleep for NZ and I am increasingly aware that the current mob are hell-bent on identity politics navel-gazing rather than actually leading this crazy nation.

Whilst I am sympathetic to the letter and spirit of your post, just be careful, because you are sailing close to the wind and entering the area which makes Moderators twitchy and nervous; politics.

 

[chis73]

The Australian PM, Scott Morrison, has today just announced his intention to establish a new nuclear submarine base on the Australian East Coast (as noted in the RAN v2.0 thread). US & UK nuclear submarines are expected to visit (be serviced?) there as well. Surely this must make today the day New Zealand's "incredibly benign strategic environment" officially died. If there are to be nuclear submarines in the Tasman, that will surely mean that assets of "near-peer adversaries" will duly follow - be they their own nuclear submarines, or intelligence gathering vessels.

Also notable, he couldn't even mention NZ by name as a key partner - he mentioned just about everyone else - the Quad, AUKUS, ASEAN etc. The best we got was "our Pacific family". That speaks volumes on NZ's capability.

 

[danonz]

Both parties seam to be espousing NZ's independent foreign policy - with out planning for and implementing an independent defense force.
If they want the defense benefits and friendship of stronger countries like AU and USA your foreign policy usually needs to align.
I'm all for independent for policy but NZ needs to realize that it needs a strong enough defense force to be independent

 

[Gooey]

Whilst I am sympathetic to the letter and spirit of your post, just be careful, because you are sailing close to the wind and entering the area which makes Moderators twitchy and nervous; politics.

Yes, apologies Nga. Copied all.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

With the new sanctions NZ has put on Russia apparently we are no longer a friendly country.... "ohhhhh my that hurt my feelings" (not, I don't really have any to hurt) lol ... and no I not posting politics... I just thought it was funny and was laughing my arse off when I read it...

New Zealand joins Russia's 'unfriendly countries' list

The list includes countries who have imposed sanctions on Russia for its invasion of Ukraine.

www.1news.co.nz

However on the good note, and side effect of this whole debacle ... I have noticed a lot more people now saying we should be increasing our defence budget from reporters asking the question to geo-politic professors and defence experts etc to just general joe blogs... and even more people just talking about it in general which has been interesting to watch...

However we need someone with a steal cap boot that can kick below the sand for those that still have their head buried in the sand...

 

[swerve]

Well, if a German government dominated by the SPD & Greens can put the equivalent of two year's current spending into a fund for rebuilding the armed forces, & on top of that, plan to increase the annual budget by about 45% by 2024 compared to 2021 - & maintain spending at that level of GDP thereafter . . .. .

I think that says a lot about how safe the world now looks to traditionally pacifist parties in pacifist countries.

 

[John Fedup]

Well, if a German government dominated by the SPD & Greens can put the equivalent of two year's current spending into a fund for rebuilding the armed forces, & on top of that, plan to increase the annual budget by about 45% by 2024 compared to 2021 - & maintain spending at that level of GDP thereafter . . .. .

I think that says a lot about how safe the world now looks to traditionally pacifist parties in pacifist countries.

It will be interesting to see what NZ and Canada actually do wrt defence in the next 1-2 years. I have little faith in a proper Canadian effort.

 

[Hone C]

Well, if a German government dominated by the SPD & Greens can put the equivalent of two year's current spending into a fund for rebuilding the armed forces, & on top of that, plan to increase the annual budget by about 45% by 2024 compared to 2021 - & maintain spending at that level of GDP thereafter . . .. .

I think that says a lot about how safe the world now looks to traditionally pacifist parties in pacifist countries.

There is a more immediate sense of threat in Germany. While recent and current events should be acting as a wake up call for the NZG, I wouldn't be surprised if they offer up a few platitudes and keep the NZDF neutered. Unfortunately. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Rob c]

It will be interesting to see what NZ and Canada actually do wrt defence in the next 1-2 years. I have little faith in a proper Canadian effort.

I would not hold my breath, waiting for a NZG response to the current down turn in the world strategic situation. There will be studies, committee's and consultation all designed to take up as much time as possible so the government does not have to do anything while saying they are waiting for the results of this or that study and when it arrives they will have it reviewed to make sure that it is correct. This will take up so much time that they will say that they are committed to change but the first report is now out of date so we will have to do it all again. They will be hoping that with time it will all go away.

 

[John Fedup]

I would not hold my breath, waiting for a NZG response to the current down turn in the world strategic situation. There will be studies, committee's and consultation all designed to take up as much time as possible so the government does not have to do anything while saying they are waiting for the results of this or that study and when it arrives they will have it reviewed to make sure that it is correct. This will take up so much time that they will say that they are committed to change but the first report is now out of date so we will have to do it all again. They will be hoping that with time it will all go away.

Applies to Canada as well, I think we have the patent on consult for delay, wait for expiry date then repeat ad infinitum. Hopefully NZ is paying a fee for use.

 

[ngatimozart]

I would not hold my breath, waiting for a NZG response to the current down turn in the world strategic situation. There will be studies, committee's and consultation all designed to take up as much time as possible so the government does not have to do anything while saying they are waiting for the results of this or that study and when it arrives they will have it reviewed to make sure that it is correct. This will take up so much time that they will say that they are committed to change but the first report is now out of date so we will have to do it all again. They will be hoping that with time it will all go away.

Yes, it will start with announcements about announcements. That's if they can find our wayward MIA DEFMIN. I hate to say this but he's worse than Mark Burton and Phil Goff of Uncle Helen Clarke's government were and they set a pretty low benchmark - lower than a snake's belly.

 

[Xthenaki]

He is a SHOCKER. Completely INCOMPETANT. He should resign.

 

[Rob c]

Yes, it will start with announcements about announcements. That's if they can find our wayward MIA DEFMIN. I hate to say this but he's worse than Mark Burton and Phil Goff of Uncle Helen Clarke's government were and they set a pretty low benchmark - lower than a snake's belly.

Phil Goff was noted to say that he would like to re-introduce the Macchi's during one interview prior to them losing to national in the 2008 election. I remember reading in the paper, so don't ask for a reference, just my memory.

 

[Redlands18]

Is this correct? Defence Minister and associate Minister(assistant to the Minister?) for Tourism, Health and Housing. On this side of the Tasman we have 4 Ministers with defence Portfolios
Defence Minister
Assistant Defence Minister
Minister for Defence Industries
Minister for Vet affairs

 

[ngatimozart]

Is this correct? Defence Minister and associate Minister(assistant to the Minister?) for Tourism, Health and Housing. On this side of the Tasman we have 4 Ministers with defence Portfolios
Defence Minister
Assistant Defence Minister
Minister for Defence Industries
Minister for Vet affairs

That's correct. Depends upon the PM and how they structure their Cabinet. We have had Defence and Associate Defence Ministers in the same Cabinet before. Usually the Veteran Affairs Minister will be a separate person, but not always, and there is always a Disarmament Minister in Labour or Labour led governments. Sometimes they appear in National Party led governments, but from memory not always.

 

[KiwiRob]

That's correct. Depends upon the PM and how they structure their Cabinet. We have had Defence and Associate Defence Ministers in the same Cabinet before. Usually the Veteran Affairs Minister will be a separate person, but not always, and there is always a Disarmament Minister in Labour or Labour led governments. Sometimes they appear in National Party led governments, but from memory not always.

National has had 3 Ministers of Disarmament and Arms Control, Key left the position vacant from 2011 to 2017. Winston was the minister from 2018 to 2020, the current minister is Twyford.

 

[spoz]

Sorry, you’re in NZ with, frankly, very few weapons of your own to disarm, and very little influence on those who are “armed” and absolutely no ability to make them disarm. What do they do, for Heaven’s sake, other than collecting a ministerial salary?

 

[ngatimozart]

Sorry, you’re in NZ with, frankly, very few weapons of your own to disarm, and very little influence on those who are “armed” and absolutely no ability to make them disarm. What do they do, for Heaven’s sake, other than collecting a ministerial salary?

TBH, your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Stuart M]

Sorry, you’re in NZ with, frankly, very few weapons of your own to disarm, and very little influence on those who are “armed” and absolutely no ability to make them disarm. What do they do, for Heaven’s sake, other than collecting a ministerial salary?

The purpose of the Disarmament portfolio is not about what it does, so much as the public position it takes; It is, for want of better terminology, the public position and expression of the NZ Labour parties ideology on the subject of disarmament, nonproliferation and arms control in general, and in this respect it has been wildly successful.

The cynical of mind might describe it as a publicly funded propaganda unit.

And it comes with a ministerial salary.