No doubt Germany is supporting its domestic industry in light of pandemic economic woes. This is why Germany is only ordering Eurofighter. Spending money on American planes with such terrible economic condition in Germany wouldn't fly politically.
Luftwaffe/German Air Force News, Discussions & Updates
- Thread starter A4kscooter
- Start date
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Haven’t seen any indication that Germany won’t be ordering SHs. These jets are for the nuclear strike role, a mission that Typhoons aren’t qualified for and the cost to do so would be prohibitive compared to just buying SHs. Some Growlers would also be required.
EF can be adapted to nuclear strike role. Not that Germany has any nuke to begin with. I doubt they'll order SH.
Terran
Well-Known Member
Yes and No.
Germany Trains to Use Nuclear Bombs
In 'Steadfast Noon,' the German Bundeswehr prepares to use tactical B61 nuclear weapons.
www.thetrumpet.com
Tornado was nuclear qualified. Typhoon is not. Super Hornet isn’t either but Boeing is more ready willing and able to qualify Rhino than Airbus.
US is in worse shape than Germany in terms of pandemic. While SH can potentially be equipped with nuke faster than EF can before pandemic, this is not the case in light of pandemic. EF can be nuke equipped in Germany faster than US can equip SH with nuke.Yes and No.
Germany is partnered in the Nuclear sharing agreement for 20 US made B61 Nuclear weapons stored in Germany guarded and maintained by USAF personnel. In Their end of the agreement Germany has to have some ability to deploy these weapons. In the US end of the agreement they maintain and secure them owning them until the Break glass in case of nuclear war situation.Germany Trains to Use Nuclear Bombs
In 'Steadfast Noon,' the German Bundeswehr prepares to use tactical B61 nuclear weapons.www.thetrumpet.com
Tornado was nuclear qualified. Typhoon is not. Super Hornet isn’t either but Boeing is more ready willing and able to qualify Rhino than Airbus.
Terran
Well-Known Member
I think you are over stating the economic effects. Also you don’t seem to understand the requirements for both qualifying to be in compliance as well.
first Drone no no under treaty. This whole deal lives in loop holes but one solid was deployment of IRBM class weapons. Drones just fit in that. Currently it’s the US who allows what host is used.
Next it not just mounting to the aircraft it’s making the systems compatible in arming. Part of that means turning over some IP to the US. Airbus doesn’t want to do that if they don’t have to. But Germany did push for it. Thing is it’s the US made weapons that are the critical here not German made fighters.
The US has to qualify the Typhoon for the bomb. Not the other way around.
first Drone no no under treaty. This whole deal lives in loop holes but one solid was deployment of IRBM class weapons. Drones just fit in that. Currently it’s the US who allows what host is used.
Next it not just mounting to the aircraft it’s making the systems compatible in arming. Part of that means turning over some IP to the US. Airbus doesn’t want to do that if they don’t have to. But Germany did push for it. Thing is it’s the US made weapons that are the critical here not German made fighters.
The US has to qualify the Typhoon for the bomb. Not the other way around.
Terran
Well-Known Member
Sorry No Go. That would mean Germany developing its own nuclear warhead and IRBMs which defeats the whole point.
www.dw.com
In Germany, gridlock over nuclear-capable fighter jet – DW – 01/10/2020
Germany's Air Force has a special mission: deliver American nukes in the case of a nuclear strike. But its Tornado fleet is rapidly nearing the end of its shelf life. So why has Germany yet to decide on a replacement?
www.dw.com
Not sure if the Quardriga order really belongs into this thread. They are (at least as currently planned) not a Tornado replacement and thus don't compete with a possible Shornet order.
Maybe it's time for a Luftwaffe news thread ?
Maybe it's time for a Luftwaffe news thread ?
Wether we see German F-18's depends a lot on the outcome of the next elections. The current secretary of defence is clearly a transatlanticist. If she remains in office, chances are good for an SHorhnet + Growler order. With a leftwing government we may see the nuclear sharing arrangement dropped alltogether (and the Shornet with it).
The thread title has been changed to reflect more accurately the topic.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Development of the MBDA Meteor started in the '90s. Meteor missiles entered service on Swedish Air Force JAS 39 Gripens in April 2016 and officially achieved initial operating capability (IOC) in July 2016, but only now the Meteor is declared ready for the German Eurofighters.
www.defensenews.com
German air force declares Meteor missile ready for Eurofighter fleet
The German air force recently completed flight tests for its newest air-to-air missile, the Meteor, and have deemed the weapon ready for use aboard the nation’s Eurofighter Typhoon fleet.
www.defensenews.com
The Luftwaffe only received 17 Meteor missiles in 2016 (fully in accordance with the procurement contract), which were used on German Eurofighter test aircraft IPA7 for integration the next two years. Spain performed similar tests with IPA4 in parallel. 133 further missiles were delivered until 2019, when nominal IOC was reached - i.e. deployment on limited number of aircraft possible - and a second tranche of 600 missiles were ordered at that point.
During these pre-IOC integration tests further AMRAAM - undisclosed number - were also ordered btw, so it's not like the switch was really urgent as occasionally pretended back in 2018 due to older AMRAAMs "running out".
The tests now are about transitioning from IOC to FOC by upgrading a number of Eurofighters of a regular air force wing, getting performance data on actual combat loadouts and then deploying it in full. The upgrade involves both hardware modifications to the pylons - while ensuring they can still carry AMRAAM - as well as the P2Eb software upgrade. Tranche 1 Eurofighters will not receive the upgrade.
France performed the same upgrade as Germany for Eurofighter on a Rafale F3R about 6 weeks earlier. The reason why Gripen is "ahead of the curve" with regard to integration is because MBDA outsourced the full testing regime for Meteor to Saab about 15 years ago.
The planned Air Force contribution to German military Indo-Pacific engagement has been slightly upscaled.
For Exercise Pitch Black '22 in Australia the Luftwaffe is now planning to send 6 Eurofighters, 3 A400M and 3 A330 MRTT.
P.S.: The Luftwaffe is involved in the Navy's current deployment too. In Guam helicopters and some crew of frigate Bayern were exchanged. While the helicopters were shipped by a An-124 under SALIS contract, the Luftwaffe took the opportunity to use a A400M to transfer the personnel from Germany to Guam with stops in Kuala Lumpur and Doha.
For Exercise Pitch Black '22 in Australia the Luftwaffe is now planning to send 6 Eurofighters, 3 A400M and 3 A330 MRTT.
P.S.: The Luftwaffe is involved in the Navy's current deployment too. In Guam helicopters and some crew of frigate Bayern were exchanged. While the helicopters were shipped by a An-124 under SALIS contract, the Luftwaffe took the opportunity to use a A400M to transfer the personnel from Germany to Guam with stops in Kuala Lumpur and Doha.
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New Minister of Defence Christine Lambrecht states she has a preference for a "European solution" for a Tornado successor before 2030 but will have "all options" laid out to her.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
According to this article the F-35 may be under consideration again due to the nuclear strike role because the F-18 SH isn’t certified for the B-61-12 bomb. Can’t believe the USN doesn’t have a nuclear option for the SH.
theaviationist.com
Germany Considering Again The F-35 To Replace The Tornado
The F-35 would be used to replace the German Air Force Tornado in the nuclear strike role. Germany is once again considering the F-35 as a potential
theaviationist.com
What we have:
- a DPA press agency article from January 8th according to which MoD Lambrecht together with Chancellor Scholz decided on a number of re-evaluations (mostly with a view towards finances), one of which is evaluating once again whether the F-35 is a "possible alternative".
- a government press conference on January 10th during which this came up and in which it was stated that:
- that the position of the MoD had not changed from the minister's Dec 19th speech (below) and further point to the coalition treaty
- that the position of the MoD that "the F-35 is not considered an alternative" is unchanged.
- the MoD speech from December 19th according to which:
- "I will evaluate all options."
- "With regard to Eurofighter we will have to clarify with the USA how long integration would take"
- "We will be well-advised to evaluate a European option as well consequentially".
- the coalition treaty from November 24th according to which a Tornado successor system shall be selected "early during the current legislature"
If the certification status of Super Hornet for B-61-12 is brought up you can safely assume that this is mere positioning by Lockheed-Martin versus Boeing placed with an author who tends to write ... shall we say, pro-F35 articles. It should be noted that the article goes quite a bit beyond verbally compared to the Reuters press release it is based upon, which is worded in a very careful way with regard to sources and their statements.
The joint German-French C-130 squadron at Evreux Air Base in France was formally put into service by the German and French Ministers of Defence Lambrecht and Parly yesterday.
While in the press release they tie the date to commissioning the first German C-130J-30 of the squadron it's mostly about the buildings and infrastructure for the squadron at the air base - all new built - being finished around the end of last year. This includes a new hangar, administration building, accomodation building and enlarged taxiways and such for 120 million Euro, equally financed by Germany and France. The Luftwaffe so far had its advance party housed in an older French building at the air base.
The squadron currently has six aircraft, the remaining four are planned to be added one every six months until 2024. By that date the last new building for the squadron - a training building with a flight simulator - is also planned to be finished.
The squadron already undertook live operational missions last week - a C-130J-30 with a binational crew transported 40 French soldiers and 30 tons of ammunition to Constanta, Romania in multiple flights.
The primary purpose of the squadron is not in general transport duties, but to support special forces of both countries, including transport and air-to-air refueling of helicopters.
While in the press release they tie the date to commissioning the first German C-130J-30 of the squadron it's mostly about the buildings and infrastructure for the squadron at the air base - all new built - being finished around the end of last year. This includes a new hangar, administration building, accomodation building and enlarged taxiways and such for 120 million Euro, equally financed by Germany and France. The Luftwaffe so far had its advance party housed in an older French building at the air base.
The squadron currently has six aircraft, the remaining four are planned to be added one every six months until 2024. By that date the last new building for the squadron - a training building with a flight simulator - is also planned to be finished.
The squadron already undertook live operational missions last week - a C-130J-30 with a binational crew transported 40 French soldiers and 30 tons of ammunition to Constanta, Romania in multiple flights.
The primary purpose of the squadron is not in general transport duties, but to support special forces of both countries, including transport and air-to-air refueling of helicopters.
Sandhi Yudha
Well-Known Member
Luftwaffe says goodbye to last Airbus A310
Luftwaffe says goodbye to last Airbus A310 On 21 June 2022 the last Luftwaffe (GAF, German Air Force) Airbus A310-304MRTT, serial 10+25 Hermann Köhl, was withdrawn from use and dep...
The Luftwaffe has retired it's last A310.
The tanker/transporter is sold to the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) where it will be used for spare parts.
I didn't know that the Royal Canadian Air Force had the A310 in its fleet, but it seems they have
5 converted Airbus A310-300 which they call CC-150 Polaris. So it is a logic and cost effective acquisition.
The Luftwaffe will use the 9 A330 MRTT to be delivered to the NATO MRTT Squadron, which have to be shared with 5 other NATO-countries.
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Canada was the other country which bought A310 tanker conversions. Last I heard they were looking at getting A330 MRTT to replace them.
The NATO A330 MRTT consortium has ordered nine, & has two more options. One of those five other countries is Luxembourg, which has no aircraft to refuel. Its contribution is paying for part of the order. The others include Belgium, Czechia & Norway, which have never had tankers & have used those belonging to allies. Nine A330 MRTT is a very big increase in the tanker capacity of the 6 members, which was previously four German A310 & two Dutch DC-10.
The NATO A330 MRTT consortium has ordered nine, & has two more options. One of those five other countries is Luxembourg, which has no aircraft to refuel. Its contribution is paying for part of the order. The others include Belgium, Czechia & Norway, which have never had tankers & have used those belonging to allies. Nine A330 MRTT is a very big increase in the tanker capacity of the 6 members, which was previously four German A310 & two Dutch DC-10.