Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates 2.0

[spoz]

And just how did you mean it? Standard of accomodation (the video does that), sea keeping and rideability, crew workloads and expectations of them, ratio of time at sea to time alongside? The way discipline is managed and enforced? There are literally dozens of different ways to answering “how are they for the crew” depending on what you want to know.

 

[Gryphinator]

And just how did you mean it? Standard of accomodation (the video does that), sea keeping and rideability, crew workloads and expectations of them, ratio of time at sea to time alongside? The way discipline is managed and enforced? There are literally dozens of different ways to answering “how are they for the crew” depending on what you want to know.

I was looking for 1st hand experience of life onboard-is it comfortable? Internet access? Food good? General stuff. Pictures don't early tell the whole story. I know the at sea time etc. Cheers

Good day folks

As indicated by Ngati .... this topic is getting heated for no good reason. I have posted the legal requirement associated with the Cape Class in ABF service in a separate text.

However... comfort is subjective ... folk who have not been to sea or have only served on large ships will find a patrol vessel in a higher sea state uncomfortable (even sickening). A general impression may depend upon who you ask and serves no purpose unless one particular view is universal.

These vessels are still subject to WHS obligations in regards to noise, vibration (which was an issued on the ACPB), essential services and working conditions. There were some local issues with water supplies which were dealt with through AMSA and ABF. I will not go into detail, these issues are subject to regulatory oversight with the vessel to be provisioned and equipped to a standard as close to the Maritime Labour Convention as practical.

Sea handling will be determined by the vessel stability. They are a significant improvement over the previous versions.

alexsa

 

[Redlands18]

I was looking for 1st hand experience of life onboard-is it comfortable? Internet access? Food good? General stuff. Pictures don't early tell the whole story. I know the at sea time etc. Cheers

I think you are looking for a simple answer to a complicated question, comfortable accommodation, Internet and good food helps but it doesn't guarantee a happy work place. Poor leadership, poor morale and poor attitude or the exact opposite can make or break a workplace, irregardless of the setup.

 

[Todjaeger]

Better than 40mm I presume.

76mm is perhaps explosive wise disappointing if you have seen the damage 155mm makes. Or a 2000lb JDAM.
57mm key benefit is its rate of fire. 220 rounds per minute.

Not this again... <le sigh>

Sorry, but the 220 RPM type thing, and the similar sorts of numbers for the Italian OTO Breda or Melara 76mm/62 cal. Super Rapid, have been going around a few things and they are really only sort of correct. Unless the munitions ready racks have been increased in size and/or number, the number of rounds per minute commonly quoted are inaccurate. I would need to find where I posted the accurate numbers previously, but the reality is that none of the guns can honestly fire the # of RPM quoted because they will have exhausted all the ready rounds in under a minute. IIRC the readily available gun ordnance will typically be exhausted in between 35 and 52 seconds or thereabouts. The number is impacted by the specific gun and mounting which determines how quickly the gun can fire, as well as how many rounds can be stored ready to fire. For the Mk 110 57mm/70 used by the USN and USCG, there are 120 ready rounds in an automatic loader drum, which would be emptied and require reloading after less than a minute of sustained firing.

 

[Gryphinator]

I think you are looking for a simple answer to a complicated question, comfortable accommodation, Internet and good food helps but it doesn't guarantee a happy work place. Poor leadership, poor morale and poor attitude or the exact opposite can make or break a workplace, irregardless of the setup.

I've been in defence before and I am manager and team leader now. You're overthinking the question.

 

[DDG38]

Meanwhile, HMAS Brisbane has returned to FBE after a 4 month regional presence deployment. Image Source : ADF Image Library

 

[ngatimozart]

I've been in defence before and I am manager and team leader now. You're overthinking the question.

You asked a pretty open generic question.

Aimed at no one in particular. I know it's a stressful time of year and this year's been a really stressful one already. So can we as, my teenage granddaughter says, please calm the farm.

 

[Gryphinator]

You asked a pretty open generic question.

Aimed at no one in particular. I know it's a stressful time of year and this year's been a really stressful one already. So can we as, my teenage granddaughter says, please calm the farm.

And expected open and generic answers. Not questions with questions. The farm is way calm here dude...

 

[Redlands18]

Defence scrambles to train nuclear scientists for 'exciting roles' on AUKUS program

Students and public servants are being enticed with generous scholarships to study nuclear science and engineering so they can begin "exciting roles" on Australia's new nuclear submarine program.

www.abc.net.au

Some info has been released for training Nuclear Scientists, with scholarships worth $20,000 a year. 300 Scholarships are expected to be awarded over the next 5 years, there is also a separate initiative for existing staff to do Masters courses.

 

[ngatimozart]

And expected open and generic answers. Not questions with questions. The farm is way calm here dude...

Don't push it. This Moderator is a follower of Socrates, who always answered a question with a question. It's how we learn and people need clarity WRT specifics because each class of ship reacts differently at sea. Some roll on wet grass and others handle brilliantly.

I had a call last night from a cobber who works up on the Tiwi Islands and he was talking to one of the crew off the Capes. He got the impression that they handled all right at sea and weren't to bad a sea boat. He said that they were quite comfortable inside as well.

 

[Volkodav]

That is more or less the plan of record as was at least implied in the 2020 FSP. There is an urgent need to replace the Armidales; the current MHCs can keep going for some years yet so why would they suddenly decide to re role the Arafuras of the current order for the less urgent task?

Had a conversation with the principle naval architect on the Hobart's several years back about the Armidales. He had been involved in the ADI bid of a modified Flyvefisken-class (Stanflex 300) for the Fremantle replacement, and said the biggest issue with them was acquisition and disposal costs. The GRP hull was more expensive to manufacture, and (structurally at least) would literally last 100 years, the problem would be disposal as each would have to be cut up and buried.

 

[Volkodav]

Wonder how many RN nuke types will ship across. Might be quicker promotion for them as the RAN expand their submarine service. RN types will nuke tickets and experience will be a good bonus for the RAN. Possibly USN types as well although I think that they may find the change harder due to differences in service cultures.

I've come across a few already, the sad thing is they were often bullied to the point they got jack of it and left. The ADF, well actually defence in general has some real issues with middle management, i.e. senior NCOs, mid ranking officers and senior APS (as opposed to EL and SES.

There are a lot of individuals who have been promoted past their competence and or have passed their use by date, after rising as far as they would go, who despise competition from outside (lateral entry).

 

[cdxbow]

Had a conversation with the principle naval architect on the Hobart's several years back about the Armidales. He had been involved in the ADI bid of a modified Flyvefisken-class (Stanflex 300) for the Fremantle replacement, and said the biggest issue with them was acquisition and disposal costs. The GRP hull was more expensive to manufacture, and (structurally at least) would literally last 100 years, the problem would be disposal as each would have to be cut up and buried.

In some universes a hull that lasted 100 years would be seen as a good thing. Funny world.
I'm very surprised the construction cost were greater to build given foam core construction is one of the common types of commercial large yacht construction, and one of the reasons for it's popularity is its cost.
I have seen it reported they had poor sea keeping, bobbed like a cork at light loads and wallowed like pigs fully loaded. IIRC the Danes constructed follow up boats with steel.

 

[icelord]

In some universes a hull that lasted 100 years would be seen as a good thing. Funny world.
I'm very surprised the construction cost were greater to build given foam core construction is one of the common types of commercial large yacht construction, and one of the reasons for it's popularity is its cost.
I have seen it reported they had poor sea keeping, bobbed like a cork at light loads and wallowed like pigs fully loaded. IIRC the Danes constructed follow up boats with steel.

Yeah because the Aluminium hulled Armidales were a delight in anything above sea state 3...my first patrol involved beef, a bridge wing and me hosing off the Stbd Rhib the following day.

 

[alexsa]

Not quite RAN but....Anyone here know how comfortable the ABF Cape class are for crew please? Someone may take up a position based on answers here. Cheers

ABF vessels are currently under commercial survey with AMSA for unrestricted voyages. However, as these are government non-commercial vessels the Maritime Labour Convention 2006 does not apply. The vessels are still subject to domestic health and safety requirements but the prescriptive specification of the MLC in so far as cabin size and facilities are not in effect. The vessels are required to comply with MLC as far as practical.

Noise, vibration, facilities and services are all captured in the regulatory process. Comfort is driven by external factors in addition to the vessel itself and a PB in a short shape sea is going to be a lot less comfortable than a larger vessel. More detail is provided in an edit to your earlier post #282.

These vessels have a lot of space for a patrol craft and are pretty palatial compared to the preceding Bay Class or the Fremantle Class PB's

 

[ASSAIL]

ABF vessels are currently under commercial survey with AMSA for unrestricted voyages. However, as these are government non-commercial vessels the Maritime Labour Convention 2006 does not apply. The vessels are still subject to domestic health and safety requirements but the prescriptive specification of the MLC in so far as cabin size and facilities are not in effect. The vessels are required to comply with MLC as far as practical.

Noise, vibration, facilities and services are all captured in the regulatory process. Comfort is driven by external factors in addition to the vessel itself and a PB in a short shape sea is going to be a lot less comfortable than a larger vessel. More detail is provided in an edit to your earlier post #282.

These vessels have a lot of space for a patrol craft and are pretty palatial compared to the preceding Bay Class or the Fremantle Class PB's

Some of us know a bit about discomfort both seakeeping and habitability, for that the Attack class PBS hold the trophy.
The were supposed to be designed for “up to Sea State 3” only but were used right around the continent\out to Christmas Island for years.
I can vouch that the main engines do not, contrary to popular belief, fall off their mounts when the roll reaches 90deg.

 

[OldTex]

In June 2021 due to technical certification concerns by Navy, a revised threat assessment and a requirement for commonality, Luerssen Australia was directed to terminate the main gun contract with Leonardo Australia. An interim gun solution is being investigated for the Arafura OPVs using the existing Navy, 25mm Typhoon Mod 0 until a replacement gun is identified.

The use of an existing supported gun system makes a lot of sense as that avoids the possibility of the new Arafura class entry into service being delayed (with the follow-on impact of having to keep the Fremantle class in service longer than absolutely necessary). The obvious choices for the replacement gun system would be the BAE 40mm (Mk4) and the BAE 57mm (Mk3/Mk110). Both are non-penetrating mounts (as was the Leonardo gun) and carry 100 (or more rounds) on the gun as opposed to the approximately 80 on the Leonardo Marlin 40mm. Whether one of these options are eventually fitted to the Arafura class will depend on:

1. Technical certification of the gun system;
2. Resolving the EO storage;
3. Integration of the gun system into the 9LV CMS, and
4. Resolving any space and weight issues arising from the use of a different gun system.

 

[swerve]

Since the BAE 40mm & 57mm naval guns are made in Sweden by the former Bofors, which BAE bought from United Defense, which bought it from SAAB, I expect that integration into the SAAB 9LV would probably not be a problem. The Visby class has the 57mm Mk3 & 9LV.

 

[Rock the kasbah]

Australian firm awarded Royal Navy submarine battery contract

Australian firm PMB Defence Engineering has been awarded a contract to improve the main battery module designs onboard British nuclear submarines.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

A little bit off topic, but this may be a clue in which direction we are heading with regards to future subs

 

[seaspear]

I understand the discussion on the Arafura class here as a class to of only a constabulary role but this article suggests these vessels could carry shipping containers that may be armed with such weapons to bolster front line units

Tac Talks: Putting the ‘War’ back into Minor War Vessels: utilising the Arafura Class to reinvigorate high intensity warfighting in the Patrol Force | Royal Australian Navy

Royal Australian Navy

www.navy.gov.au

This article suggests that the M.U.A.S for the Arafura class has not been decided

Helicopter Surveillance Drone Could Be the Australian Navy’s Next Eye in the Sky

Leonardo's AWHERO drone and Northrop Grumman’s Distributed Autonomy/Responsive Control (DA/RC) command and control system considered by Australian Navy

www.autoevolution.com