Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates
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Bravonavyzulu
New Member
Yes. fassmer. Thats the company.
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Not necessarily. The San Giorgio class was designed with a ramp arrangement that allows vehicles to move from the well deck, to the hangar deck, to the flight deck so there is the possibility of giving up the forward helo spot and storing vehicles and cargo on the flight deck.
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Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
Must be a different article than that I read...
Any vessel can be up-gunned to a certain extent... however, there is a cost/outweigh you have to think of ... it is not just as easy as slapping on a bigger gun, the structure below has to be resigned maybe reinforced, etc... adding extra weight, cost... the extra weight in some cases may affect the top weight stability of said vessel which in turn, involves a redesign of other parts of vessel to make it work... and before you know it you a cost out blow and might as well have just bought the bigger brother of said vessel...
But anything is possible.
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There's a bit more to an effective surface combatant than weapons fit ... speed, endurance, survivability, range, radar cross-section, hull shape for stealth etc. I really doubt up gunning a LPD or similar could be a serious option, they're designed from the keel up for very different roles.
Nighthawk.NZ
Well-Known Member
Totally agree... I seriously doubt that it is a serious option for replacing the ANZAC's.
Shanesworld
Well-Known Member
I disagree.
I think the future will be driven by the shape and requirements of rotary wing, fixed and underwater drones. Something that looks like but may vary alot internally to an lpd will facilitate this alot.
Well deck for usv launch and recovery. Large flight deck for several concurrent launch, recovery, refuel/rearm cycles.
Conventionally shaped warships cannot offer this. Being able to keep an overwhelming and immediate response to submarine attack well in advance of the actual warship and whatever its escorting i think should be the desired result.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
One needs to keep in mind though that some of the features suggested above would require compromising other desired or needed capabilities. One also runs a very real risk in trying to fit too many divergent and/or conflicting capabilities into a single hull. One could end up with a vessel which provides a broad range of poor capabilities, without really being able to fulfill any real requirements.
In many respects, Canterbury is an example of what one can get when trying to assign unrelated roles to a single vessel/hull. The need for cargo capacity in the sea lift role required a vessel which could carry a certain range of cargo mass. It should have been no real surprise that the seakeeping properties and handling would be different between when Canterbury was laden vs. unladen.
Also, if trying to fit such a range of capabilities, this would almost certainly increase the complexity of the vessel and therefore the cost and possibly even crewing requirements as well. This could result in the RNZN once again getting too few vessels to really meet service needs, particularly if things do become hostile in the Indo-Pacific region.
It is a capable vessel but I don't think they are looking for an OPV with only 4000nm range or without a hangar. There has been a view that the Protectors were even on the small side and should have been closer to 100m than 85m.
CJohn
Active Member
This article by ex NZ Navy officer Andrew Watts discusses emerging technological and doctrinal opportunities that offer a much wider and potentially affordable range of naval capability choice for the RNZN.
defsec.net.nz
Modularity and the Shape of New Zealand’s Next Naval Fleet - Defsec
Emerging naval doctrine supports the idea of a future navy based on modularity, writes maritime capability specialist Andrew Watts.
defsec.net.nz
How does modularity work for a fleet of two to four frigates? It seems to be a recipe for FFBNW to me and while weapons may be modular the sensor kit is not always so easy due the fact it needs to integrate with the ships combat systems and need to be located so they are optimal for their function. Remember the ANZAC was designed around the modular concept. The growth in top weight and power demands absorbed the vessels growth margin very quickly and it was not possible to fit the ASMD sensors in modular form.This article by ex NZ Navy officer Andrew Watts discusses emerging technological and doctrinal opportunities that offer a much wider and potentially affordable range of naval capability choice for the RNZN.
Modularity and the Shape of New Zealand’s Next Naval Fleet - Defsec
Emerging naval doctrine supports the idea of a future navy based on modularity, writes maritime capability specialist Andrew Watts.
Modular does work well in larger fleets where a number of roles can be done on one hull. The LCS is a modular ship ... (but it has not worked too well as can be seen) and the new MCM and Hydrographic ships may be modular too.
Looking at major fleet unit, a lot of folk look at the STAN Flex system as a way forward ..... but you still need the modules .... and enough of them. All well and good swapping them around during peace time ... but what happens in time of war when you need that capability. if you have four ships and say two of each module who gets what? If you lose a ship you may lose a capability completely.
40 deg south
Well-Known Member
NZ places order for high-speed craft | Shephard
New Zealand has ordered three high-speed boats for MCM and reconnaissance tasks.
www.shephardmedia.com
RNZN has bought some plastic boats - haven't seen this mentioned on here yet. Assume there will be some disgruntled local manufacturers at the choice of an Australian product, given this is well within the size range of some New Zealand producers.
HDPE Boats manufactured by PFG PFG - The Sentinel
The Sentinel range offers a fully-customisable integrated maritime system, enhancing mission capability for defence and security organisations. Manufactured in Australia from HDPE high density polyethylene for enhanced durability, stability and performance.
pfg-group.com.au
Something from this range.
I see that they are working with Hamilton Jet though. Everyone had a chance to put in their tender through GETS. At 12.5m it seems that a new product is being developed from the Sentinel range.NZ places order for high-speed craft | Shephard
New Zealand has ordered three high-speed boats for MCM and reconnaissance tasks.www.shephardmedia.com
RNZN has bought some plastic boats - haven't seen this mentioned on here yet. Assume there will be some disgruntled local manufacturers at the choice of an Australian product, given this is well within the size range of some New Zealand producers.
HDPE Boats manufactured by PFG PFG - The Sentinel
The Sentinel range offers a fully-customisable integrated maritime system, enhancing mission capability for defence and security organisations. Manufactured in Australia from HDPE high density polyethylene for enhanced durability, stability and performance.
Something from this range.
The Cube System by Danish firm SH Defence who I see have a connection to OMT the designers of the Type 31 in the above link is seemingly the next generation on from Stan-Flex. I posted a few days back when it was covered by Naval News.
With three or four frigates it's definitely out of the question for the reasons that you give. However if a minimum of six hulls were acquired then it might be feasible if worked right. The problem with Stanflex is that it is a bespoke footprint so there's no real interoperability with it. It can't be containerised and transported easily, nor can it be utilised on non Stanflex fitted ships.
The LCS module system I think is a stuff up because the yanks may have tried to over complicate it. It should have been relatively simple where you mount your weapons, sensors etc., within the footprint of, for example, a 20ft ISO TEU unit. Basically apart from the fittings securing the module to the deck which would be standard ISO TEU ship fittings, the other fittings required are power, data and coolant connectors, all of which should be NATO standard fittings.
In the NZ case a hull such as the Babcock OMT Arrowhead 140 could meet the necessary requirements because it's designed for such a capability. However no matter what we acquire the problem would be the mast and the sensors on it. The government would baulk at six complete sets of SPY-7 radars and ancillary equipment. There is also the issue of the 127mm gun because that is not modular at the moment and unlikely to be so for a while.
So we are left with a conundrum if we want to go down the modular route using the same platform. In my mind it is not worth following that route if it is going to endanger our high end capability.
Not to mention that a vessel's role may change mid-deployment due to changing circumstances.
The most modularized navy in the world, Denmark, has five different classes of combatant/patrol vessels. Even they don't advocate a single class fleet.
Designing your fleet for economies during peacetime is a misguided policy.
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Ok then can I ask which role you expect to have in a NATO conflict? Or the 3-4 frigates would be also needed for other situations outside a simmetric conflict where Australia and other allies dont intervene?
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
How or why would the RNZN be involved in a NATO conflict? NZ is not a NATO member, and is pretty much on the opposite side of the planet from the North Atlantic...
An interesting photo in this article, not sure their ship recognition is all that crash hot:
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www.tvnz.co.nz
NZ Navy-led operation seizes over $7.4m in drugs from boat outside Arabian Gulf
More than 1525kg of hash and 166kg of methamphetamine were seized earlier this week.