The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

ngatimozart

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
overlander said:
From the original 13 type 23 frigates only 8 are operational, the fleet is overstretched in my opinion.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

How many Type 23 Frigates are operational?

The Ministry of Defence have confirmed that of the 12 Type 23 frigates in service in the Royal Navy, 8 are operationally available.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk ukdefencejournal.org.uk
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The fleet is overstretch but the civil servants in the MOD don't seem to care.I actually think that the largest problem with UK defence is the MOD, closely followed by the pollies.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
Some of the worst offenders are the officers in procurement, though from what I've heard, the system doesn't help. They move on (or are moved on) far too soon, so projects don't have continuity or consistency, & it seems that a lot of them try to make their mark by changing things when they take over. Perhaps every procurement project should have a pissing tree for new appointees to use, to distract them from screwing the project up with pointless changes.
 
H

Hone C

Active Member
swerve said:
Some of the worst offenders are the officers in procurement, though from what I've heard, the system doesn't help. They move on (or are moved on) far too soon, so projects don't have continuity or consistency, & it seems that a lot of them try to make their mark by changing things when they take over. Perhaps every procurement project should have a pissing tree for new appointees to use, to distract them from screwing the project up with pointless changes.
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A sound idea. The system doesn't adequately prepare personnel for project management or negotiating contracts, combined with the lack of consistency and thrusting for reportable achievements it can be dire.

IMHO a ban or time bar on leaving the service and going to work with contractors, especially those who have been the beneficiaries of previous procurement decisions, would also help.

It's not just the RN, it's a problem across defence.
 
John Fedup

John Fedup

The Bunker Group
Hone C said:
A sound idea. The system doesn't adequately prepare personnel for project management or negotiating contracts, combined with the lack of consistency and thrusting for reportable achievements it can be dire.

IMHO a ban or time bar on leaving the service and going to work with contractors, especially those who have been the beneficiaries of previous procurement decisions, would also help.

It's not just the RN, it's a problem across defence.
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…nor is it just a UK problem. Canada has even worse procurement and there are certainly some senior officers joining contractors after service.
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
www.navalnews.com

Royal Navy's River-class OPVs begin 5-year Indo-Pacific deployment - Naval News

Royal Navy River-class Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV) HMS Spey and HMS Tamar have today begun deployment to the Indo-Pacific region to bolster Britain’s presence in the region.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com

Good news in my opinion. I recall there was criticism at the time the Batch 2s were ordered because they weren't an obvious priority for the Royal Navy with all the other things that needed to be built. An Indo-Pacific deployment seems perfect for them.
 
Systems Adict

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
overlander said:
From the original 13 type 23 frigates only 8 are operational, the fleet is overstretched in my opinion.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

How many Type 23 Frigates are operational?

The Ministry of Defence have confirmed that of the 12 Type 23 frigates in service in the Royal Navy, 8 are operationally available.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk ukdefencejournal.org.uk
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I am sorry, but in my humble opinion, that 'article' is simply a form of click-bait !

Yes, the RN decommissioned x2 of them in quick succession this year (x1 of which had been stripped of most things to keep her sisters in the fight, add to that the x3 that UK PLC sold a number of years ago, that equals 5.

The school that taught me maths says that 13 minus 5 gives you 8. So they only have x8 & they are all 'active' - WHAT is the issue ??

If the article was about the lack of support for a class of ships, the relentless debacle of procurement & the subsequent mis-management of funds for the UK armed forces as a whole, then I could be more accepting. However the reality of a class of ships the the first vessel was commissioned in 1989 & the last was 2002, with the final ship expected to go out of service in 2035, I do think that UKPLC will have gotten their monies-worth out of a ship design that is always referred to as the quietest ASW resource of the cold war.

Having worked on them in build / been on trials with them, I do have a soft spot for them, their big cousins the Type-45's & am expectant that their replacements (Type-26) will be from a similar mold, given that there will be circa 32+ of them.

SA
 
R

Rob c

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Systems Adict said:
Yes, the RN decommissioned x2 of them in quick succession this year (x1 of which had been stripped of most things to keep her sisters in the fight, add to that the x3 that UK PLC sold a number of years ago, that equals 5.

The school that taught me maths says that 13 minus 5 gives you 8. So they only have x8 & they are all 'active' - WHAT is the issue ??
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If you look up the Type 23 on different web sites you will find that they actually built 16 Type 23's of which 3 went to Chile, leaving the RN with 13.
Type 23 Duke Class Frigate - Naval Technology
en.wikipedia.org

Type 23 frigate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Systems Adict said:
I am sorry, but in my humble opinion, that 'article' is simply a form of click-bait !

Yes, the RN decommissioned x2 of them in quick succession this year (x1 of which had been stripped of most things to keep her sisters in the fight, add to that the x3 that UK PLC sold a number of years ago, that equals 5.

The school that taught me maths says that 13 minus 5 gives you 8. So they only have x8 & they are all 'active' - WHAT is the issue ??

SA
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16 Type 23s were built, of which 3 were sold off in 2005-6, leaving the RN with 13. So we actually have 11, of which I think a couple are currently being updated.

Almost all got Sea Ceptor now. I think one of the Chilean ships is either waiting for it or in refit, & the last RN ships are now getting it.
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Systems Adict said:
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

WHAT, could possibly go wrong.....?

FSS is a difficult thing to envisage.

At this time BAE is tied to T26. Babcock are tied to T31, so do they have scope to build, or will it simply be a management exercise, with work farmed out ?

Both companies have 'iron's in the fire' in someone else's backyard, so winning this contract means another carrier style 'hotchpotch of building elements across the Scotland/Northern England & then shipping to a central point for assembly.

Team UK will likely have the 'favourite' label against them, with Team Resolute being a close second. (BMT are a good design house & H&W have the facilities to either build completely, or be a 'staging yard' where the hull can be built from, component).

Secro/Damen is a bit of an odd-mix, in that while Damen have the ability / capability to build, Serco is effectively a shipping management company.

Navantia, could be a dark horse / outsider, but the drive to be 'Built in Britain' may put them to a low ranking 3rd place.
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Are they to be built in Britain however ?


I'm reading the line that the winning bid must be led by a British company - that to me still leaves wide open the possibility the hulls will be built some where else and then some reasonably substantial fit-out in a UK facility could occur?
 
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overlander

Member
Good news to see the 2 Carriers totally operational at the same time, not only one as It was originally planned a few years ago with the Cameron administration.
Even it was discussed to be mothballed or sold 1 of them.

It,s a Big improvement in British defence .

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Drones operating from carrier HMS Prince of Wales

Jet powered Banshee target drones are operating from aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales alongside F-35B jets.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk ukdefencejournal.org.uk
 
FormerDirtDart

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
FormerDirtDart said:
HMS Severn sporting a subdued splash of color.
Not to be confused with the "dazzle" Tamer & Spey are wearing for their Indo-Pacific deployment.
I wonder if Tyne and Mersey will eventually gain a similar livery to Severn as they patrol UK waters.
For that matter, if Forth will get a specific paint job as the Falklands Patrol ship, as well Medway in the Caribbean and Trent for her basing in Gibraltar/Mediterranean

There is also a short video in the article linked thru the tweet.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428287875985158149

A couple additional images of Severn in her new colors
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Nice shot of Tamar in the fog. And Tamar & Spey sporting pierside their "Indo-Pac" dazzle
Both via twitter thread from Navy Lookout


 
FormerDirtDart

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
www.navalnews.com

Babcock cuts steel for Royal Navy’s first Type 31 frigate HMS VENTURER - Naval News

Babcock, the aerospace, defence and security company, was joined by UK Secretary of State for Defence and Shipbuilding Tsar, Rt Hon Ben Wallace MP to cut the first steel for the first of the Royal Navy’s five new Type 31 frigates, HMS VENTURER.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com

First steel cut for on "Inspiration-class" frigates. Article is mostly on the modern infrastructure investment for the project. Hope there is follow on work for the modern yard.
 
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OldNavy63

Active Member
HMS Richmond concludes UN support ops in the East China Sea and conducts a southerly transit of the Taiwan Strait on 27 Sep 2021 enroute Vietnam.

Defence Committee (@CommonsDefence) Tweeted:
As part of #CSG21 @HMS_Richmond will be transiting the Taiwan Strait.
During our recent evidence session on the role of the @RoyalNavy, our Chair @Tobias_Ellwood and @tetsuo_kotani spoke about #CSG21 going through the Taiwan Strait.

More on the inquiry: The Navy: purpose and procurement - Committees - UK Parliament https://t.co/GcrPc3K1ef

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442476317480407046
 
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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
FormerDirtDart said:
www.navalnews.com

Babcock cuts steel for Royal Navy’s first Type 31 frigate HMS VENTURER - Naval News

Babcock, the aerospace, defence and security company, was joined by UK Secretary of State for Defence and Shipbuilding Tsar, Rt Hon Ben Wallace MP to cut the first steel for the first of the Royal Navy’s five new Type 31 frigates, HMS VENTURER.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com

First steel cut for on "Inspiration-class" frigates. Article is mostly on the modern infrastructure investment for the project. Hope there is follow on work for the modern yard.
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The current scuttlebutt theory is that if Babcock do a half decent job of these, Type 32 will be a follow on order of more of the same in reality.

That's just a guess - nothing to back it up but I'm guessing a bit in that giving 32 it's own name, it leaves things open to award whatever looks betest at the time. Hopefully they'll be more heavily armed and better specified.
 
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