General Aviation Thread

[Ananda]

This development shown question in my opinion, the optimism on Turboprop manufacturer for future of this type. Eventough ATR still think the market for Turboprop still growing, however recent developments put that in question.

De Haviland already stop production of Q400 (eventough they claim only temporary due to COVID condition). Now the US Airlines as the biggest market in the world (so far until China take over), also dropping Turboprop for regional Jets. Even China eventough still have Turboprop Airliners in their Production line, however for shorter range choose more and more toward to their Regional Jet ARJ-21.

Even if the Market for Turboprop still exists, but it's relegated toward smaller range (below 300-400 miles) or remote region. Even the capacity only for less than 70 pac.

For me this raise question on business viability of some in Indonesia that wants to build large Turboprop above 70 pac. Are they not reading the market trend ??

 

[John Fedup]

Probably one the few things Bombardier got right was the shrinking market for both turboprops and smaller regional jets, hence their challenge against the duopoly with the C-Series. Unfortunately for them, fuel prices collapsed and P&W were somewhat late with their geared turbofan. That being said, some horrible management decisions diminished the C-Series chances for success. Sadly, COVID could have been a survival mechanism for them had they not gotten so far in the hole (probably 60% management, 40% external factors).

 

[swerve]

The C-series doesn't seem to be doing too badly. Of course, it ain't Bombardier any more. The A318's already dead, & I'm not sure what'll happen to the A319, but there's quite a backlog of A220s.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Meanwhile in the US....

More detailed information about this Boeing 777 incident at

The Aviation Herald

Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

avherald.com

The same day in the Netherlands there was a similar accident, with a Boeing 747 cargo aircraft.
Boeing verliest stukken metaal bij Maastricht, twee lichtgewonden

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363293857383784450

 

[John Fedup]

Boeing has recommended grounding of all 777s powered by P&W 4000 engines. Boeing seems to have learned from its 737 experiences, no more delays on acting. Pictures of those large debris pieces in residential areas likely helped.

Boeing 777s grounded after Denver engine failure Boeing 777s grounded after Denver engine failure

 

[John Fedup]

The 777X program is progressing along and test aircraft are in Oklahoma. Renewed focus on getting things right is a good sign. The big question is the market, will it still exist post-COVID? An earlier story from Flight Global has reported the expected production has been reduced from 400 to 350 jets. A military application for this jet is something Boeing may be hoping for, especially if more point to point routes using narrow body jets becomes the norm in a post-COVID world due to reduced travel.

Boeing 777-9 performing runway tests in Oklahoma

Boeing has sent one of its four 777-9 test jets to Clinton-Sherman airport in Oklahoma for a series of tests that will primarily examine the jet's performance on the runway.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

This development shown question in my opinion, the optimism on Turboprop manufacturer for future of this type. Eventough ATR still think the market for Turboprop still growing, however recent developments put that in question.

De Haviland already stop production of Q400 (eventough they claim only temporary due to COVID condition). Now the US Airlines as the biggest market in the world (so far until China take over), also dropping Turboprop for regional Jets. Even China eventough still have Turboprop Airliners in their Production line, however for shorter range choose more and more toward to their Regional Jet ARJ-21.

Even if the Market for Turboprop still exists, but it's relegated toward smaller range (below 300-400 miles) or remote region. Even the capacity only for less than 70 pac.

For me this raise question on business viability of some in Indonesia that wants to build large Turboprop above 70 pac. Are they not reading the market trend ??

I hesitated if I have to put this in the general maritime news thread or in the general aviation news thread, but because we are already talking about turboprops here, I just post it here.

PAL Aerospace, De Havilland Canada jointly developing Dash 8 P-4 MPA - Naval News

PAL Aerospace and De Havilland Aircraft of Canada Limited (“De Havilland Canada”) on February 25 announced the establishment of a Memorandum of Understanding (“MOU”) to jointly pursue the development of a fully missionized Dash 8-400 aircraft, called the “Dash 8 P-4” for maritime patrol (“MPA”)...

www.navalnews.com

So here we see that De Havilland Canada plans to develop a fully missionized Dash 8-400 aircraft, called the “Dash 8 P-4” for maritime patrol (“MPA”), intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (“ISR”), and other applications.
The DHC-8 has a much higher price tag than the ATR72 for example, but it has a better performance, only the CN235 and C295 have a longer range. So it will be a very attractive choice for coast guards, navies and airforces who already operate older versions of the DHC-8.

 

[John Fedup]

A somewhat sad piece on the fate of BA’s 747-400 fleet describing the “re-purposing and recycling”, still scrapping in my mind. Also an interesting observation about the rate of A320 to 737 scrapping, due the the MAX issue, the rate of 737 recycling fell to 50 % compared to the A320 as airlines had to retain their old 737s.

The unwanted aircraft in aviation’s boneyards

Hundreds of aircraft are sitting in storage across the world, awaiting their fate. Will the rate of retirements pick up in 2021, and what actually happens to an airliner when it is parted out?

www.flightglobal.com

 

[John Fedup]

I hesitated if I have to put this in the general maritime news thread or in the general aviation news thread, but because we are already talking about turboprops here, I just post it here.

PAL Aerospace, De Havilland Canada jointly developing Dash 8 P-4 MPA - Naval News

PAL Aerospace and De Havilland Aircraft of Canada Limited (“De Havilland Canada”) on February 25 announced the establishment of a Memorandum of Understanding (“MOU”) to jointly pursue the development of a fully missionized Dash 8-400 aircraft, called the “Dash 8 P-4” for maritime patrol (“MPA”)...

www.navalnews.com

So here we see that De Havilland Canada plans to develop a fully missionized Dash 8-400 aircraft, called the “Dash 8 P-4” for maritime patrol (“MPA”), intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (“ISR”), and other applications.
The DHC-8 has a much higher price tag than the ATR72 for example, but it has a better performance, only the CN235 and C295 have a longer range. So it will be a very attractive choice for coast guards, navies and airforces who already operate older versions of the DHC-8.

I have to wonder if someone in junior’s crew has suggested Canada wants a minimal cost MPA? I wonder if this is both a conversion program and new build program as there is likely a large pool of unwanted DASH 8s around.

 

[ngatimozart]

I have to wonder if someone in junior’s crew has suggested Canada wants a minimal cost MPA? I wonder if this is both a conversion program and new build program as there is likely a large pool of unwanted DASH 8s around.

Funnily enough that was the first thought I had when I read the article. Canada's CP-140 Araoura replacement.

 

[John Fedup]

Funnily enough that was the first thought I had when I read the article. Canada's CP-140 Araoura replacement.

I am guessing that may be the plan augmented by some sort up UAV. Before the C-Series sale to Airbus and when Bombardier needed a lifeline, a MPA derivative might have been a better option than just throwing money to the company. Might even have prevented the sale...probably not.

 

[ngatimozart]

Well this made life interesting in the cockpit.

Cat takes over cockpit on Tarco Airlines flight in Qatar, forces emergency landing

It's unclear what happened to the cat once the flight landed.

www.newshub.co.nz

 

[John Fedup]

Perhaps fire resistant Astro-turf would be less expensive than trying to redesign an exhaust system or for that matter fire resistant green paint over a concrete pad.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Perhaps fire resistant Astro-turf would be less expensive than trying to redesign an exhaust system or for that matter fire resistant green paint over a concrete pad.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Your solution is too simple, too logic and too cost effective!

Actual and potential landing zone damage “was found to be primarily due to engine exhaust, auxiliary power unit exhaust and discharge of aircraft fluids onto the grass,”

Redesigning the engine exhaust systems (the Sikorsky VH-92 has two turboshafts), redesigning the APU-exhaust system and create and install an aircraft fluid collect and storage system is ofcourse better, because that will be more time and budget consuming!

 

[Terran]

Those and remember it doesn’t only fly to the white house lawn. This chopper needs to preserve America’s gulf courses. As well as the occasional foreign trip.

 

[ngatimozart]

Perhaps fire resistant Astro-turf would be less expensive than trying to redesign an exhaust system or for that matter fire resistant green paint over a concrete pad.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

Green concrete pad. Don't have to mow it then. Lawn mowing is so overrated.

Those and remember it doesn’t only fly to the white house lawn. This chopper needs to preserve America’s gulf courses. As well as the occasional foreign trip.

Golf is not a necessity and is very overrated. Those big wasted spaces could be put to far better use.

 

[Redlands18]

Green concrete pad. Don't have to mow it then. Lawn mowing is so overrated.

Golf is not a necessity and is very overrated. Those big wasted spaces could be put to far better use.

What Rugby Stadiums?

 

[Ananda]

China’s home-grown C919 aircraft on course to be certified by end of 2021

The Chinese government formed the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (Comac) in 2008 to design and build the single-aisle C919.

amp.scmp.com

China will certificate C919 by end of this year. It will be interesting to see when their domestic routes will be utilized this Airliners, considering long protected path that their Regional Jet ARJ-21 has to take to be fully operational, even for domestic routes only.

However eventough it will take much longer time for C919 to be competitive in export market against A220, A320 and 737-8 MAX, but I believe the aim for Chinese is how much this Airliners can take over Airbus and Boeing single aisle market in their domestic. Loosing Chinese single aisle market to C919 (and some extent ARJ-21) is already enough blow for Airbus and Boeing.

 

[ngatimozart]

What Rugby Stadiums?

Of course, plus cricket pitches, breweries and distilleries. You have to get your priorities right.

 

[Ananda]

This's for me raise question that China try to bargain with US. Don't get me wrong, it's very understandable that any Civil Aviation Agency globally will scrutinized MAX before giving recertification to operate. However with most of other Agencies shown tendencies to give green lights, CAAC seems dragging on. Saying that they're not satisfied and what being done still not answering the main safety issues.

Related to my previous post on C919, I'm wondering if this not another bargaining chips for CAAC with FAA for fastening the certification process for C919. They know in the end, most of other International Civilian Air Authority still looking for FAA and it's European Counterpart assessment before they're taking their own. China will definitely need FAA help for C919 certification. It's just odd when they're adding more test need to be done for MAX, when other agencies already see the related data concerning recertification of MAX.