Australian Army Discussions and Updates

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Do we know how many of these new SEP v. 3 tanks we will be receiving? Will it just be a one for one replacement?
There you go, great timing, page 46 has the intended M-1, ABV and JAB upgrade all laid out. Phase 2 Govt approval due for approval sept 2021, including increasing the fleet to 88 Tanks likely to be M-1A2 (SEPv3) as well as a combined ABV/JAB fleet of 32 Vehicles based on the M-1 Chasis.
Read the article in the link provided in the July issue of DTR it covers everything about the proposed upgrade.
The Electronic version of DTR is free all you have to do is register and you are sent a link each month to the latest edition.
 

pykie

New Member
Read the article in the link provided in the July issue of DTR it covers everything about the proposed upgrade.
The Electronic version of DTR is free all you have to do is register and you are sent a link each month to the latest edition.
The specific section you are referring noting the total of 88.

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MARKMILES77

Active Member
Were others aware that the Australian Army operates 60mm mortars?
I certainly wasn't.
Australian and NZ Defender has an article stating they are used by Special Forces (SASR/2 Commando) and a roll out to 2RAR has begun.
With a role out to other non special forces units possible after 2RAR assesses them.
The 60mm system used is the M224A1 as used by the USMC.

Article is Paywall protected.

 

cdxbow

Well-Known Member
From the article, " Because these asymptomatic mTBIs are difficult to assess, it is likely that DTI and fMRI (functional MRI) will become useful tools to guide the prognosis and management of these injuries moving forward". Also from the article, "Concussion and subconcussive injury are associated with microstructural changes in the white matter and alterations in fiber tract integrity that are detectable with diffusion tensor imaging (DTI) and susceptibility weighted imaging but are not evident on conventional structural imaging studies such as computed tomography (CT) scan and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI)" thus CT scans wouldn't be useful.

DTI, fMRI, and PET apparently are useful for assessment of mTBI. PET imaging is relatively expensive compared to other imaging techniques as a cyclotron is needed for F-18 production. Sadly, there isn't a lot that can be done to treat TBI other than to restrict further exposure to any activities that cause TBI.
John, I finally got around to reading the paper. Thanks for posting. It is a post mortem study of brains collected at autopsy and highlights the risks of repetitive minor head injury from 'concussion' like events. There is nothing surprising here, these risks have been recognised in contacts sports (NFL, AFL, boxing etc) for a the last couple of decades, the extreme end of the spectrum has been known for a long time as 'punch drunk', that occurred in boxers. They seem to be a bit out of date, I was a bit disappointed when they said:

"The incidence and prevalence of chronic traumatic encephalopathy and the genetic risk factors critical to its development are currently unknown."

The last bit is rubbish. A big genetic risk is the presence of apolipoprotein E (APOE) ε4 allele, which is also the most common genetic risk factor for dementia. It is predictive of a a worse outcome in models of traumatic brain injury and in particular has a very high correlation with folks who develop Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE). Because it is currently untreatable there has discussion in sports medicine circles of using to assess risk and it may come that sports people who engage in contacts sports could be counselled to change to tiddily winks if they have the APOE ε4 allele. There may be ways using standard MRI to diagnose it in the future using clever measurements of the size of certain bits of the brain, it would certainly help work out incidence and prevalence.
 

kiwi in exile

Active Member
Were others aware that the Australian Army operates 60mm mortars?
I certainly wasn't.
Australian and NZ Defender has an article stating they are used by Special Forces (SASR/2 Commando) and a roll out to 2RAR has begun.
With a role out to other non special forces units possible after 2RAR assesses them.
The 60mm system used is the M224A1 as used by the USMC.

Article is Paywall protected.

FYI: NZ uses M6C-640T Light Mortar
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Hmm... "Tank Replacement Evaluation and Design ($8 – $11.9b) "
$8-11B seems rather pricey for evaluating replacement options for the M1 (I mean, the proces of considering options and maybe leasing a few tanks off allies for evaluation purpoes might be a few $100M tops...). So, two possibilities spring to mind, either "evaluation and design" is wrong/very poorly worded and it's actually that full M1 replacement program costs, or, the inclusion of "design" is awfully suspicious and someone somewhere in the government/bowls of the public service wants Australia to do more than select a new tank off the rack...
Maybe someone accidentally left out a comma or two. "Tank Replacement, Evaluation and Design . . "?
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
John, I finally got around to reading the paper. Thanks for posting. It is a post mortem study of brains collected at autopsy and highlights the risks of repetitive minor head injury from 'concussion' like events. There is nothing surprising here, these risks have been recognised in contacts sports (NFL, AFL, boxing etc) for a the last couple of decades, the extreme end of the spectrum has been known for a long time as 'punch drunk', that occurred in boxers. They seem to be a bit out of date, I was a bit disappointed when they said:

"The incidence and prevalence of chronic traumatic encephalopathy and the genetic risk factors critical to its development are currently unknown."

The last bit is rubbish. A big genetic risk is the presence of apolipoprotein E (APOE) ε4 allele, which is also the most common genetic risk factor for dementia. It is predictive of a a worse outcome in models of traumatic brain injury and in particular has a very high correlation with folks who develop Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE). Because it is currently untreatable there has discussion in sports medicine circles of using to assess risk and it may come that sports people who engage in contacts sports could be counselled to change to tiddily winks if they have the APOE ε4 allele. There may be ways using standard MRI to diagnose it in the future using clever measurements of the size of certain bits of the brain, it would certainly help work out incidence and prevalence.
I posted the articles on the 24th and 25th on brain injuries to military personnel the physical effects and behavioral effects to raise some awareness or discussion , my query was directed at ongoing screening processes for people with this trauma still alive that would prevent them from further injury
 

cdxbow

Well-Known Member
I posted the articles on the 24th and 25th on brain injuries to military personnel the physical effects and behavioral effects to raise some awareness or discussion , my query was directed at ongoing screening processes for people with this trauma still alive that would prevent them from further injury
Sorry.

The only screening I know of with the potential for reduction of risk of CTE is the presence/absence of the APOE e4 gene, but this is all really new stuff to do with brain injury and long term studies need to be done.

Screening people for it is hard (eg PET scan, fMRI, maybe lumbar puncture findings), but as I said there is some promise in standard MRI in the future.

To prevent further injury the principle is simple, no further head trauma, which may be difficult in practice, such as a military setting. At present there are no specific therapies, and most care is symptomatic, and this is usually treatment of the neuropsychiatric/cognitive issues eg Anxiety, depression, PTSD.

If someone you know is suffering from it or you suspect they are then they should see someone who specialises in CTE, these can be neurologists, psychologists, sports physicians - often it becomes a team thing. In Melbourne their are a number of organisations specialising in CTE. Paul Mccory is a neurologist and sports physician who would probably be the closest to a world expert, he's the AFL neurologist. There are others in town, but I've been out of the business for a while. PM me if you need more info.
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member

MARKMILES77

Active Member
The SPH req is for 2 Regt worth so i would say that yes it will be more than 30. The other one is a MRL system, probably HIMARS but the ROK K-239 could also be in the running. The K-9 order still hasn’t gone to Cabinet yet, so we may see a tweaking of numbers there, maybe 30+ options. I think we will have to wait on the SPH order is announced before we will know the fate of the 777s.
Don't The current Australian Artillery Regiments have 12 guns each?
Three batteries each with 4 X M777s.
So a buy of 30 SPHs would already be enough to equip two Regiments of 12 guns each with 6 left for training.
Maybe a few more than 30 to allow for servicing etc but not many.
Unless a SPH Regiment is going to be differently equipped to the current Australian Artillery regiments?
 

MickB

Well-Known Member
Is it certain that protected mobile fires means SPGs ?
Could a batch of 120mm self propelled mortars also be considered?
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
Is it certain that protected mobile fires means SPGs ?
Could a batch of 120mm self propelled mortars also be considered?
Yes we can be 99% sure about the SPGs and the 120mm SP Mortars are part of Land 400 phase 3, basically a 120mm Turret on the Land 400 Phase 3 Vehicle.
 

Bob53

Well-Known Member
Don't The current Australian Artillery Regiments have 12 guns each?
Three batteries each with 4 X M777s.
So a buy of 30 SPHs would already be enough to equip two Regiments of 12 guns each with 6 left for training.
Maybe a few more than 30 to allow for servicing etc but not many.
Unless a SPH Regiment is going to be differently equipped to the current Australian Artillery regiments?
I know we have a limited size army but the numbers seem so small. Assuming there was an attack that we had to defend on the mainland... It’s fictitious right now but the assumption by the gov is that someone is building up for something...say Port Headland had a landing and Curtin and Learmont rendered inoperable ... how would 30 SPH be of any use? They are not going to be used against anyone in a ship I imagine ....
 

Raven22

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
If Australian SPGs are no use against an enemy landing at Port Headland, we can be equally sure that anything the enemy landed is equally useless.

The textbook response to an enemy landing at Port Headland would be to do absolutely nothing and wait for them to surrender when they realise they are thousands of kilometres away from anything of importance.
 

Todjaeger

Potstirrer
If Australian SPGs are no use against an enemy landing at Port Headland, we can be equally sure that anything the enemy landed is equally useless.

The textbook response to an enemy landing at Port Headland would be to do absolutely nothing and wait for them to surrender when they realise they are thousands of kilometres away from anything of importance.
Not to mention such a landing would be within striking range from Australian forces via land, air, and sea. As well as having been within Australian sensor coverage for 1000's of km. Depending on how unpleasant Australian forces wished to be, Australian citizens could have been withdrawn/evacuated ahead of the hostile landing force being permitted to land. Then once landed, have their very long logistical tail routinely attacked and cut or outright destroyed, leaving the local flora and fauna for the landed force to deal with.
 

Redlands18

Well-Known Member
There is only one place in Northern Australia worth capturing and that is Darwin, what is the best defended city in Australia?
Darwin
 

Stampede

Well-Known Member
Don't The current Australian Artillery Regiments have 12 guns each?
Three batteries each with 4 X M777s.
So a buy of 30 SPHs would already be enough to equip two Regiments of 12 guns each with 6 left for training.
Maybe a few more than 30 to allow for servicing etc but not many.
Unless a SPH Regiment is going to be differently equipped to the current Australian Artillery regiments?

What will the future of the three Artillery regiments look like in each of our three regular Brigades.
Will they all look the same.
Maybe each will be a mix of SPG and M777s..............................mission dependant options??????????????
Or
Maybe not

Thoughts


Regards S
 
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