Midtguardian Defence Forces

[OPSSG]

@Bozoo, can you acquire UAVs like the General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (to be modified into the Protector UAV) in H0 scale?

ngatimozart and OPSSG. Thanks guys for Your input. The Gulfstream G 550 is a good buy for Midtguardia as the airframe is commercally available from Shapeways in 3 D print from around USD 60 a piece in the H0 scale. Even so, it requires a good deal of work to convert the airframe to the AEW "Fat boy" Version...

Would be excited to see a pic once you have it done.

Generally, Midtguardia cannot expect to be able to replace lost airframes during an armed conflict, which makes the case for the fourth airframe. On the other hand if I have allready lost one or two G 550 AEW machines, I will probably have lost a most of my Eurofighters as well and another AEW will probably not make a lot of difference.

What do you think? One of my greatest worries is loosing airframes on the ground. This is partially alleviated by dispersing fighters to motorway runways...

Sensible to disperse fighters to motorway runways, along with the use of decoys.

I specially worry about MLRS launched ATACMS Block 1 A and similar weapons With a 300 km range and submunitions able to saturate a part of the airbase as Midtguardia has no defence against such weapons. A number of the fighters will be protected as we have 12 hardened shelters on each airbase, but larger airframes have no protection. Unfortunately, we just cannot aford Patriot or Thaad. (much more expensive in H0 than in airframes)

Maybe a weapon locating radar for accurate counter battery work?

Another question. Elint/Sigint missions are currently undertaken by two F 4 Gs. Ideally I would like to use G 550 for this as well, but it seems like an unecessary luxury as long as the Phantoms behave. Am I right? Will a EW configured G 550 have basically much better EW performance than the F 4?

Just as an afterthought, I will probably buy a G550 airframe as a VIP flight if I buy the G 550 AEW as this will give commonality of spares and Equipment.

I do love the G 550 alternative.

The F-4 will do for a small Air Force like Midtguardia but a modified G550 will be more capable, due higher levels of power, cooling and space to house equipment.

He, he. I actually managed to fix the quote.

Yippie!

 

[Bozoo2]

2. If you want to read up more, there are a number of resource threads related to AirPower that may be of interest to you. These resources were not available when you joined more than 11 years ago.

• Air Power 101 for New Members (read this second)
• A brief history of LO (read this first, for the foundation to understand the other threads)
• F-35 Program - General Discussion
• F-35 - International Participation
• F-35B/C - Naval Air Discussions (USN & USMC)

Thanks for the tip. I have read through the first and second parts, the Air Power 101 especially interesting actually covering many topics also relating to army and some navy cocepts from the air force point of veiw. Most of this was allready known conceptually, but this tied it all together in av very informative way. What a fantastic presentation.

Many of the capabilities described is allready, in some form or another, in existing in the Midtguardian defence forces, although in many cases in a rudmentary form. It does present a good overveiw and inspiration for the expansion of Midtguardian capabilities, some of which will only be represented in written form as they are not physically possible to model in H0.

I find that my main air defence deficiancy is medium to long range GBAD. Currently, my main worry is beeing targeted by MLRS launched ATACMS with up to 300 km range, attacks which I have no defence against. I myself use the 165 km range in the counter battery fire missions. As I have little or no support for the MLRS (we have 8 launchers) these are exclusively reserved for counter battery due to the long range, thus placing these launchers outside the range of tube artillery, but within its own capability to reach hostile artillery batteries.

A question; I have two sets of AN/TPQ 36 and 37 artillery locating radars. Would it be pertinent to include these into the IADS?

Another question; what does tertiary air force mean?

The P 8 fleet would have to wait until the G 550s are on line, as Midtguardia does not have til financial means to fund these two major programs simutaniously.

I find that, somewhat to my surprise, the necessety to modernize is creeping up on me, straining the budgets in a major way.

Midtguardia has engendered some interest also from Norwegian military professionals and I have hade the opprtunity to conduct "paper" excercises with the help of resently retired batallion and company commanders pitting the Midtguardian defence forces and myself as a commander against professionals. Quite the challenge, going from creating and theorizing around the construction of military units in the H0 scale to actually trying to operate the units in a theoretical situation. Up until now, I am not doing very well, and loosing a lot of units quite quickly, although actually also presenting a challenge for the opposing forces. Actually quite fun.

One of the things I have learned is that the batallion is the most important unit.

Another one is the actual manpower necessary to create a viable front line. Even with a frontage of only 10 km pr infantry Bn makes for a very, very thin front line, especially considering my theorem that no soldier should ever be alone in his "foxhole".

Yet another surprise is how difficult it is to decide the location of your troops and how congested the area just outside enemy artillery range becomes and the competition for localizations that occur. My own artillery must be situated about 15 to 20 km behind FLOT to secure against enemy tube artillery while still beeing able to shell no-mans land just in front of the FLOT.

In the same area one needs to have ammunitions replenishment points and POL points as they need to be as close to the front as possible, but out of range for enemy artillery and direct fire weopons. Foreward operating bases for helicopters, foreward maintenance and repair shops, C3I units, Milint and MP units also need to be close to the front, all of which take strong exeption for the localization of artillery batteries in the same area as artillery fire invites counter battery fires that will rain down on the neigbouring units while the artillery units in the mean time have relocated to new firing positions, inviting more retaliotary fire on their new neighbours. A counundrom.

Another problem which I cannot see any obvius solution to, are mass attacks of minidrones. I am thinking maybe a fuel air solution may be possible, as jamming will not help against autonomous drones.

Thanks again for valuable feedback and ideas.

Bozoo

 

[Bozoo2]

can you acquire UAVs like the General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper (to be modified into the Protector UAV) in H0 scale?

yes. Reapers are quite cheap and easily come by in H0. What would I use them for? Recon?

 

[Bozoo2]

Maybe a weapon locating radar for accurate counter battery work?

I do have AN/TPQ 36 and 37 artillery locating radars, the 37 the most capable and long range and maybe able to pick up the launch. This will on the other hand not protect the targets. The only options I have are to return fire with my own MLRS with corresponding range, but I do not beleive I have the necessary targeting capability for such long engagements, the other option would be to put together a strike package and fly 300 km with my valuable air assets in the hope the launchers are still there.

As far as I can tell, the only real option is to buy Thaads, which is close to impossible. In todays situation, my only option would be to launch a full scale armoured attack to penetrate deep into the enemy territory to avoid the slow attrition of valuable units as very few parts of Midtguardia would be more than 300 km from the front line.

Repeated MLRS attacks might there fore trigger a Midtguardian invasion into enemy territory, an invasion we might not be equipped to carry out.

 

[OPSSG]

yes. Reapers are quite cheap and easily come by in H0. What would I use them for? Recon?

Part 1: Ex Forging Sabre 2016 vid1

Part 2: Ex Forging Sabre 2016 vid2

1. You may need to make better use of your division’s numerous intelligence assets (including high revisit satellite imaging, long range recce patrols, recce flights by fighters and the judicious use of UAVs) to generate actionable intelligence on enemy disposition, as part of your intelligence collection plan and also:

(i) apply the same principles as GW1 Scud hunting as explained in this RAND pdf (eg. Exercise Forging Sabre, which tests the division strike centre’s sense and strike capability) as part of 24/7 efforts to find these MLRS and naval targets by using UAVs equipped with DB-110 pods (which will be out of range of enemy SAMs); and​

(ii) pair the AN/TPQ 36 and 37 artillery locating radars with a relevant counter battery asset as part of a division’s artillery brigade) but push the battery and battery command post up to 10 km of the forward edge of the battle area (increase range of your battery by changing tactics and survive by displacement or use of decoys after firing).​

​

2. You need to do a proper terrain study of the area of operations, down to the level of each battalion, so as to narrow down the enemy course of actions to 2 or 3 options. That way your intelligence assets are deployed efficiently. There is also a Pointer Monograph on the mistakes in the Malayan Campaign, including a chapter on operational art shortcomings by LTC (NS) Singh that contains lesson learnt that is specific to the terrain in Malaysia and Singapore.

 

[Bozoo2]

1. You may need to make better use of your division’s numerous intelligence assets (including high revisit satellite imaging, long range recce patrols, recce flights by fighters and the judicious use of UAVs) to generate actionable intelligence on enemy disposition, as part of your intelligence collection plan and also:

The problem would be to identify and fix targets up to 300 km into enemy Territory. Midtguardia has no indigenous satelite Resources and rent com sat and imagery from private Companies. We foresee possible service deruptions due to national interests if we ever end up in a shooting war, but retain the ability never the less, as we will use what ever we can as long as we can.

We do have a Limited special operations capability and may send up to Three long range recce patrols into enemy Territory to to supply targeting info on enemy MLRS or equivelant, for missile strikes, but I fear this may be suicide missions as I have problems seeing Our spec ops teams actually staying under cover for a total of 600 km in enemy country.

Now, of coarse, Norway has mothballed its only MLRS battery due to protests over submunitioned weaponery, and do not have the extended range missiles. What Sweden has, I do not know. But Midtguardia needs to keep apace With other possible antagonists and both Russia and a Marine Expeditionary Force are possible enemy forces, as the US under special circumstanses might decide to aid Norway in its bid to rid itself of Midtguardia.

RF 4 G overflights might be possible, although hazardous.

We do have Honest John missiles in mothballs with conventional warheads. Maybe we should revitaize this capability?

BTW, thanks for the vote of confidence on the invite to participate in the thread regarding defence of Singapore. I have started reading myself up on Singapore history and geography and have studied satelite imagery of the city state at length, and must say you have your work cut out.

What is quite interesting is that Singapore, and the Singapore defence system, have many similarities to Midtguardia and it seems that Midtguardia has about 30 - 50% av current Singapore defence assets. It will take some time though, berfore I feel capable of joining that thread with any opinions. I might have some quirestions though.

 

[Bozoo2]

(ii) pair the AN/TPQ 36 and 37 artillery locating radars with a relevant counter battery asset as part of a division’s artillery brigade) but push the battery and battery command post up to 10 km of the forward edge of the battle area (increase range of your battery by changing tactics and survive by displacement or use of decoys after firing).

​

They are allready integrated into the Artillery Bn of the 1. division, operating in the target aquesition battery and working closely with the MLRS counter artillery battery.

 

[ngatimozart]

Regarding your satellite coverage, check out cube satellites and their capabilities. They are far cheaper than standard satellites and cheaper to launch as well. We have a company that launches them here in NZ from the world's only fully privately owned and operated launch facility.

I've been also thinking about your frigate situation and needs. The South Korean navy operates frigates in the 3,000 tonne range that would suit your requirements. The Incheon class is one such frigate, Incheon-class frigate - Wikipedia. It is a blue water ship but also has brown capabilities as well. Whilst you have emphasized your brown water requirements, I still suggest such a platform gives you the weapons and capability versatility that you need.

However I do see the problem of it being available on the HO scale. So something similar could be around.

 

[Bozoo2]

Regarding your satellite coverage, check out cube satellites and their capabilities. They are far cheaper than standard satellites and cheaper to launch as well. We have a company that launches them here in NZ from the world's only fully privately owned and operated launch facility.

I've been also thinking about your frigate situation and needs. The South Korean navy operates frigates in the 3,000 tonne range that would suit your requirements. The Incheon class is one such frigate, Incheon-class frigate - Wikipedia. It is a blue water ship but also has brown capabilities as well. Whilst you have emphasized your brown water requirements, I still suggest such a platform gives you the weapons and capability versatility that you need.

However I do see the problem of it being available on the HO scale. So something similar could be around.

 

[Bozoo2]

All ships are made from scratch by a Vietnamese model shipyard. They take about six months to make and are full museum quality. The Challenge when it comes to ships is really to get my hands on the plans and drawings as the shipyard needs this to build. So, I am basically free to buy any ships I want. They do cost quite a lot though. A ship like my current frigates take about one year of Manpower hurs to build.

A spot of bad News about the Gulfstreams. The quatation from Shapeways came back With a price tag of USD 1800 for four airframes, which I consider much too high. There are a couple of Suppliers offering the standard Gulfstream air frame and I will ellicit tenders from these, both for the standard airframes for conversion to AEW in Midtguardia and for the finished Product. I will also ask the Vietnamese shipyard, who makes everything in Wood, whether they can make the Gulfstreams.

BTW, the satelite info was great. I will be looking into this.

 

[Bozoo2]

The time has come to the Army, the largest part of the Midtguardian Defence Forces.

First, the infantry.

The smallest building Block of the Midtguardian Infantry is the infantry section.

Each rifle section has 10 soldiers, commanded by a corporal; Scout, Rifleman, Squad leader, Radioman, MG 1, MG 2, AT 1, Rifleman, Medic, Rifleman
Weapons: H&K AG3 7.62, H&K 417 sniper 7.62, H&K MG3 7.62, H&K P 8 pistol 9mm, M 70 Law, M 47 Dragon Maw

Infantry platoon has three rifle sections and one heavy weapons section.

Heavy weapons section has 10 soldiers, commanded by a sergeant, Scout, FAC (air/arty control), Squad leader, Radio, TOW1, TOW2, TOW3, MG1,MG2, Medic. Weapons: H&K AG3 7.62, H&K 417 Sniper 7.62, H&K MG3 7.62, H&K P 8 Pistol 9mm, TOW II.

In addition to the four sections the platoon has a CO, a first leutenant, a XO, a second leutenant and the senior NCO, a sergeant.

Total personell all infantry platoons; 43

 

[Bozoo2]

There are four different types of infantry batallions, Fully motorized BN OR (off road), Fully Motorized BN, Combat BN and Garrison BN.

Fully motorized infantry batallions are set up With sufficient transport to carry the entire batallion in one load. These batallions have Integrated, Motorized Command C3I, Medical, MP, Logistic and recce units as well as an artillery battery of four towed 105mm howitzers and six armoured Humvees With TOWII launchers. Total personell in fully motorized BNs are 1067 commanded by a Major With a small staff.

Off road BN is equipped With 6x6 Steyer trucks, Gama goat radio vehicles and 4x4 Field cars. Non off road BNs have Magirius 2X4 trucks and Dodge vans. Midtguardia has one of each type fully deployed and one of each type under Construction in 50 - 80% completion.

Combat BNs are leaner BNs With enough trucks to transport one quarter of the BN personell and Equipment in one load, as well as command and logistic vehicles. This due tu the fact that the amount of transport necessary to transport the entire BN in one load is considered an impediment under combat conditions, the BNs may requesition transport from Transport BN if the need arises. These BNs do not have integral artillery or anti tank Humvees.

Midtguradia has four fully established Infantry Combat BNs, numbering 782 personell each.

All eight infantry BNs are a part of 1. division, 12. and 13. BN beeing Fully Motorized, 14. and 15. BN Fully Motorized Off Road and 16. through 19. BN beeing Combat BNs. All 1. div infantry platoons are established as full platoons With Three rifle ond one Heavy weapons sections.

The army has additional four Garrison BNs. These are similar to the Combat BNs, but have only four trucks, radiovan, an ambulance and teField cars each, two to each coy and two at BN HQ. They have only 720 pesonell each as their companies do not have the heavy weapons platoon integral to all other infantry coy's. The Garrison BNs are a part of the 2. Div and are therefore not regarded as maneuver units.

The Air Force have two garrison BNs, one for each air base - each BN with its own armoured Coy with obsolecent M 60 tanks and Marder IFVs, and the Navy has one garrison BN to guard the main navy base.

 

[Bozoo2]

The fully motorized Coy.

The fully motorized coy have 10 trucks each. Every platoon has two trucks each With a one ton trailer carrying the soldiers of the platoon in the back of the trucks With 20 personell in the back of each truck and the platoon kit in the trailers. The Coy HQ has one truck With tentage and logistics towing a Field Kitchen and another towing a water Buffalo trailer. The Coy CO, a captain, has a 4X4 jeep With a ,5 t trailer, there is a radiovan for Coy HQ and an ambulance.

In addition the Coy has one truck With a Heavy weapons platoon of 2 x 12.7mm Heavy machine gun, 2 X TOW II launchers and 2 x 81mm mortars and 2 x Stinger MANPADS the crew of 16 riding in the truck and the weapons and ammo in the Heavy trailer. All 1. div infantry Coys have this Heavy weapons platoon.

Each infantry coy will therefore have at its disposal 16 x MG3s, 12 x Dragon MAWS, 8 x TOW IIs, 2 x 12.7mm HMGs, 2 x 81mm Mortars and 2 x Stingers. The BN will also be able to support its Coys With their 6 TOW Humvees and 105mm gunfire from the integral artillery battery. Each infantry coy is expected to defend a frontage of Three kilometers, giving a Heavy weapon coverage of one fire team pr 78 meters With riflemen as observation posts in between in a linear defence.

The Infantry BNs will be supported by artillery and maneuver units behind the lines as well as a fire support BN With obsolecent Leo A 4 MBTs.

 

[Bozoo2]

The 1.Division has a number of support units aiding the infantry BNs in their mission.

2. BN is the armoured BN With 52 MBT of M 1 A2 Abrahms and M 2 Bradley IFVs. The armored BN has considerably more armour than the Tank squadrons of the armoured brigade belonging to the 2. division, but far fewer support vehicles as the BN is not supposed to oparate independantly of the division support units for any amount of time. It therefore lacks integral artillery, engineer, transport, air defence and to some extent logistics, MP and mainetenace support. It does have C3I units, recce units, mech infantry, Medical support and some logistics, but is dependant on division logistics for operations over any amount of time.

 

[Bozoo2]

3. BN Artillery

This is possibly the largest BN and could very well be designated an artillery brigade. It has 3 Complete M 109 155mm SPG batteries, each With 8 guns (upgrading as we speak to 9 guns), integral logistics support in the shape of one 10 t MAN 8x8 truck With loading Crane pr gun, M 557 Fire Direction Centers and battery command centres, survey parties, loading parties, Ptarmigan MSE Access node and M 981 FISTV teams for battery target aquesition. The battery also has its own M 88 armoured recovery vehicles and repair and maintenance units.

The artillery BN has one battery of 10 M110 203mm spgs With M113 crew vehicles and FAUN Heavy 6X6 FAUN ammo transporters With loading Cranes. There is a LARS light rocket battery of 8 launchers and two FERA direction centres and a battery of 8 MLRS launchers With ATACMs 165 km range missiles reserved for the Counter battery mission. There is a meteorological platoon and a logistics Company With another 12 8x8 MAN ammo trucks, a Field Kitchen platoon and of course a BN Hq coy With Ptarmigan Access node, as well as recovery and repair Resources and a Medical treatment station With ambulances.

The BNs M 109 batteries can co-ordinate their fire missions With the artillery squadron of the armoured brigade, adding another 8 guns to the cannonade.

There is a target aquesition battery with AN/TPY 36 and 37 artillery locating radars, a number of M113 artillery observation vehicles and 8 M 981 FISTVs to be allocated as BN HQ sees fit.

 

[Bozoo2]

4. BN Air Defence

This batallion supplies air defence to the division. It has two coys each of 12 Gepards With appropriate logistics vehicles transporting ammo, 1 Marder mounted Roland coy of 12 armoured SAMs and one coy of 10 truckemounted SAM systems With ammovehicles, these beeing deploys as point defence for high value targets and not in a front line deployment.

The air defence BN also has a mobile radar Coy with four mobile AN/TPS search and control radars tied into the IADFs and Ptarmigan MSE to create a common radar picture and forewarning weapon systems of approaching enemy aircraft.

The BN also deploys a mobile tactical operation center SOC with all necessary equipment to produce air surveillance and control, including track production, intercept control and ECM/ECCM. The air force man the air situation and intercept control positions in the SOC, thus tying the Army Air Defence units in with the air force operations.

 

[Bozoo2]

6. BN Transport

This includes one Complete transport regiment With 61 5 ton mission trucks and all necessary support vehicles such as repair, fuel and recovery as well as command and internal logistics and some materiell handling Equipment.

There are a number of transport coys ranging from MAN 5 t trucks through Mercedes Zetros armoured Heavy trucks to Elefant tank transporters, Dingo and Boxer armoured personell carriers as well as fuel transporters, from the large 26000 liter semis through the 10.000 liter HEMMT trucks Down to the 4200 liter fuel Bowsers.

 

[Bozoo2]

7. BN Maintenance

This takes care of repair, recovery and maintenance exceeding the core BNs abilities. The BN sets up two foreward repair facilities as well as a foreward parts depot (although the latter situated at the very back of the division Control area). They also have Three mobile response teams With shop vans in specialising in Automotive, weapons, radio and Electronic response units on Call for the individual divisional batallion.

There is also a Battlefield recovery team With armoured search, repair and recovery teams With weasel armoured "jeeps", M 88 ARVs and M 121 Dragon Wagon armoured off road tank transporters.

 

[Bozoo2]

Sorry, I forgot 5. BN, Engineer.

This batallion provides engineer support to all other units, and to some degree also more specialized support to 2. division units.

There is of course a BN HQ With a specialized Engineer Recce coy presently under Construction, a general support unit With 12 man engineer teams in FAUN 913 6x6 trucks equipped With miscallaneous light engineer Equipment, a mechanised engineer coy With Dachs armoured engineer vehicles and M 9 Earth movers, an Earth moving coy With dumper trucks and escavators, two bridging coys, one With 8 Alligator bridges and one With pontoon bridging Equipment, one mine coy of 6 Scorpions, one mine clearing coy With Kielers, two assoult breaching teams With a combination of Kielers, exploding hose vehicles and Heavy Remote controll top attack resistant tanks enabling the breaching of mine Fields under fire, and finally two bridge blowing teams and an Assault boat team.

There is also a Construction Bn that is only in function when mobilized that consists of a large, mobilized civilian Construction Company.

Finally the engineer BN is responsible for a number of miscalleneuos missions such as Field postal service, marketenter service, Field Baths, R&R facilities, Field laundry and bakeries as well as map making and printing work.

 

[Bozoo2]

8. BN Signals

This BN provides secure communication and C3I service for all Div units through the Ptarmigan MSE system supplying what is in effect a mobile secure Telephone system allowing communication With divisional units through Telephone number independant of the units location within the divisional area. Most signal units are dispoersed to the individual BNs.

The BN also administeres the Wavell C4I system, the IADS system and the combat radio network.

The BN also runs the Division EWS with Eloka and Traffic Jam emitters and co-ordinates the Elint/Sigint missions with the air force and Military Intelligence BN of the 2. div. They also co-ordinate recce and intel resources with the CIPS (Central Interlligence Processing Senter). The BN has a major prescense in the Div HQ.