Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[FoxtrotRomeo999]

There used to be (1960s - 1980s) a tank farm/bulk fuel facility at Lombrum where destroyers and frigates would refuel during long transits such as Sydney to Subic.
Does anyone here know of its current status?

Current Status is it is still there and getting improved over time.

• Lombrun Naval Base = Manus Island = HMPNGS Tarangau It is referred to by a couple of names.

• Lombrum Naval Base - Wikipedia

Lombrum is the home port of the PNGDF's Pacific-class patrol boat force. So there is something already there.​

• [URL="https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/oceania/png-lombrum.htm"]Papua New Guinea - Lombrum Naval Base / HMPNGS Tarangau

[/URL]

The roles of the Patrol Boat Base are:

• To ensure that all Patrol Boats of the PNGDF and allocated support craft are ready in all respects to meet their operational commitment.
• To provide port facilities for PNGDF ships, PNG Government of commercial vessels and, as required for warships of other nations visiting Lombrum as agreed by the PNG Government;
• To provide for local administration with the Lombrum area.
• To conduct; Seamen specialist training, pre sea and continuation training; and on the job training for tradesman allocated to the Maritime discipline.
• To provide for on the spot replacement of Patrol Boat crewmen in conjunction with HQ PNGDF.
• To provide technical support for Patrol Boats up to and including Assisted Maintenance Periods (AMPs) and maintain a capacity for replacement of major components as required.
• To control technical administration of Patrol Boats for all aspects including preparation of main defect lists and conduct of Planned Maintenance.

• Air power critical for Manus expansion plan | The Strategist

Our PM announcing joint initiative on Lombrun in 2018 "And today, it’s my privilege to announce that the United States will partner with Papua New Guinea and Australia on their joint initiative at Lombrum Naval Base on Manus Island. (Applause.) We will work with these nations to protect sovereignty and maritime rights of the Pacific Islands as well." And it is being improved.

​

 

[StingrayOZ]

Last I heard Lombrum was in a pretty bad state of disrepair, as in knock everything down and start again. Government is regularly issuing tenders for upgrades currently. Last one I saw including things like fencing and a guard house, so I would assume the tank farm would be in need of replacement/upgrade after other areas are upgraded. Its not like part of the facility PNG would be throwing mega bucks at it, most of that stuff was built in WW2. In the mid 80's everything was basically relocated back to Port Morsby and it was just a FOB, which really didn't need significant resupply capability.

We can’t risk a strategic sham on Manus | The Strategist
The ASPI link has bit on what is going on at Manus. It mentions fuel and oil upgrades.

We may need a smallish tender for Lombrum anyway, for supplies, remove wastes, while that could be contract commercially, its not like PNG has loads of that kind of gear for a naval base. Something with the capability to improve sewerage, waste handling, resupply in the region I am sure would get plenty of support. A small tender and amphibious ship operating out of Lombrum I think would be ideal for a pacific focus. Smaller ships will be better able to visit smaller ports, and multiple small ships would be better than one massive one. Such smaller ships would be able to take advantage of the warf upgrade which is optimized for smaller ships. Christmas Island is also visited by ships of similar size, could be useful for resupply out of Christmas island which again is probably not ideal for a 20,000t AOR to operate out of. The idea of Submarine tenders might be a thing to look at given our investment in subs and operating them at long range.

 

[ASSAIL]

Last I heard Lombrum was in a pretty bad state of disrepair, as in knock everything down and start again. Government is regularly issuing tenders for upgrades currently. Last one I saw including things like fencing and a guard house, so I would assume the tank farm would be in need of replacement/upgrade after other areas are upgraded. Its not like part of the facility PNG would be throwing mega bucks at it, most of that stuff was built in WW2. In the mid 80's everything was basically relocated back to Port Morsby and it was just a FOB, which really didn't need significant resupply capability.

We can’t risk a strategic sham on Manus | The Strategist
The ASPI link has bit on what is going on at Manus. It mentions fuel and oil upgrades.

We may need a smallish tender for Lombrum anyway, for supplies, remove wastes, while that could be contract commercially, its not like PNG has loads of that kind of gear for a naval base. Something with the capability to improve sewerage, waste handling, resupply in the region I am sure would get plenty of support. A small tender and amphibious ship operating out of Lombrum I think would be ideal for a pacific focus. Smaller ships will be better able to visit smaller ports, and multiple small ships would be better than one massive one. Such smaller ships would be able to take advantage of the warf upgrade which is optimized for smaller ships. Christmas Island is also visited by ships of similar size, could be useful for resupply out of Christmas island which again is probably not ideal for a 20,000t AOR to operate out of. The idea of Submarine tenders might be a thing to look at given our investment in subs and operating them at long range.

Thanks mate, that ASPI link categorically states that there is no bunker facility at all, even the PNG boats go to Madang or Rabaul to fuel.

OTOH Christmas Island has no wharf at all which is suitable or could be made suitable for even minor war vessels. The swell at the jetty can be horrendous, the depth rises steeply from hundreds of metres to nothing in less than 50 mtrs so totally useless
I once refuelled an Attack class (draft 1.7 mtrs) in Flying Fish Cove by laying out an anchor and backing up stern to near the small jetty in range of the fuel hose. With a small swell at the time I had a diver in the water checking the depth between props and rock continually, a very dicky operation indeed, never want a repeat but it was a necessity at the time.

 

[Milne Bay]

Can't find the last mention of the Collins submarine maintenance work being moved to WA, but it would appear that it will be a major blunder from a skills loss point of view and would probably impact on the ASC Adelaide workforce quite severely.
Here is a link to the breaking news story:
ASC report reveals risks of moving Collins Class submarine maintenance work - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
ASC report reveals risks of moving submarine maintenance work to WA
MB

 

[ASSAIL]

Can't find the last mention of the Collins submarine maintenance work being moved to WA, but it would appear that it will be a major blunder from a skills loss point of view and would probably impact on the ASC Adelaide workforce quite severely.
Here is a link to the breaking news story:
ASC report reveals risks of moving Collins Class submarine maintenance work - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
ASC report reveals risks of moving submarine maintenance work to WA
MB

It’s that serial pest Rex Patrick attention seeking yet again.

 

[Stampede]

The new Supply ships are primarily fleet support units and i can’t see them being sent on any major HADR mission by themselves.
On minor HADR duties their primary shore connectors will be helicopters.
Equipping them with mexeflotes would unnecessarily complicate their role even if they were capable of deploying them without modification and I believe it’s an idea without merit, IMHO naturally.

Thanks Assail
.
Probably best to get up to speed with these new ships primary role without adding bits and creative expectation.
Anyway, one I'll keep an eye on to see how they perform and how they are employed.

Cheers


regards S

 

[Stampede]

The normal way of carrying mexeflotes in ships without well decks is strapped to the side of the hull, as was seen with the RFA LSLs. Given the prime purpose of an AOR is RAS by the alongside method, there might be a conflict. Possibly could be carried on the container space, but that would probably be at the expense of CONEXs, again likely undesirable. Replacing one of the boats with an LCVP, as was done with Success, would seem a more practical solution, albeit one without as much capacity to land gear.

If it was feasible, I would suggest one would not want to impose on the existing deck space and use that area for its current purpose.
Yes they would have to be attached to the sides.
Is it feasible and would it restrict the ships ability to carry our refuelling of other ships alongside, I cannot say.
So it's wishfull thinking on my behalf.
Maybe we should observe how the Canadians employ this capability with their new Berlin class supply ships and see if the concept has scope for the RAN.

Thanks and regards S

 

[John Newman]

It’s that serial pest Rex Patrick attention seeking yet again.

Whenever I see 'ABC' and 'Rex Patrick' mentioned together I start to glaze over... both a waste of taxpayer dollars.

If I remember correctly, Patrick is one of those 'backdoor' Senators, not actually voted for or elected, but filled Xenophon's seat when he pulled the pin. Come the next election he'll probably be gone.

Cheers,

PS, I hear he was born across the ditch in Kiwiland, explains a lot! Ha ha!

 

[aussienscale]

Whenever I see 'ABC' and 'Rex Patrick' mentioned together I start to glaze over... both a waste of taxpayer dollars.

If I remember correctly, Patrick is one of those 'backdoor' Senators, not actually voted for or elected, but filled Xenophon's seat when he pulled the pin. Come the next election he'll probably be gone.

Cheers,

PS, I hear he was born across the ditch in Kiwiland, explains a lot! Ha ha!

LOL, when I saw the ABC and Rex mentioned in the same sentence I didn't even click on the link !!

 

[Milne Bay]

ABC, Rex Patrick ... blah blah blah!
Is anyone going to seriously discuss the issue of whether the ASC report reveals risks of moving submarine maintenance work to WA has any merit.
Whether you like the media broadcaster or not, or the senator or not is not the issue.
Are there risks in moving submarine maintenance to WA?
MB

 

[ASSAIL]

ABC, Rex Patrick ... blah blah blah!
Is anyone going to seriously discuss the issue of whether the ASC report reveals risks of moving submarine maintenance work to WA has any merit.
Whether you like the media broadcaster or not, or the senator or not is not the issue.
Are there risks in moving submarine maintenance to WA?
MB

Off course there’s risk in moving full cycle dockings to WA but ASC has to decide whether they have the capacity at Osborne to continue concurrent with the Attack build. I’m assuming there will be huge demand on a stretched workforce.
Surely though this is a question for the company to decide, not Federal or State politicians and most certainly not Rex Patrick or the ABC

In future there will also be sustainment for the Attacks, maybe when that eventuates it might be prudent to have the remaining Collins refit in Perth?

 

[John Newman]

ABC, Rex Patrick ... blah blah blah!
Is anyone going to seriously discuss the issue of whether the ASC report reveals risks of moving submarine maintenance work to WA has any merit.
Whether you like the media broadcaster or not, or the senator or not is not the issue.
Are there risks in moving submarine maintenance to WA?
MB

The sustainment of the Collins class through to retirement is important, and is not a joke.

What is a joke is the standard of reporting by the ABC, especially Defence reporting (the ABC and most media outlets have NFI when it comes to accuracy), and Patrick is a joke, a self serving pollie trying to make a name for himself in SA, his 'big shock horror' announcements are usually from selected cherry picking paragraphs from reports/documents that he has obtained using FOI.

Have you got a link to this very secret draft ASC report? I don't, If you do, post a link please.


A reasonable report, a fairly balanced report, is this ASPI report from October 2018:

Thinking through submarine transition

Below is the 46 page PDF linked to the above page:

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/ad-aspi/2018-10/SR 128 Thinking through sub transition.pdf?hBI2AIjcgfCmWfgSWQTwaTl5fiQoCgkm

Cheers,

 

[alexsa]

Block consolidation may not be a bad way to go to get Henderson up and running and have block consolidation and final fitout at Osborne. Given the current wrangling around submarine support its not clear how exactly this will all fit together. It may be worth planning to have Osborne capable of significant block consolidation and maintenance.

.

Actually I don’t agree that T26 blocks should move. The yard is designed to be efficient with all building on site. It may be able to cut plate for other projects (using the DDG facility perhaps) but I would not muck around with the integrated process that is planned

 

[ngatimozart]

PS, I hear he was born across the ditch in Kiwiland, explains a lot! Ha ha!

To quote a previous Kiwi PM, when he left NZ the IQs of NZ and Australia both rose. Has he renounced his Kiwi citizenship yet?

 

[ASSAIL]

The sustainment of the Collins class through to retirement is important, and is not a joke.

What is a joke is the standard of reporting by the ABC, especially Defence reporting (the ABC and most media outlets have NFI when it comes to accuracy), and Patrick is a joke, a self serving pollie trying to make a name for himself in SA, his 'big shock horror' announcements are usually from selected cherry picking paragraphs from reports/documents that he has obtained using FOI.

Have you got a link to this very secret draft ASC report? I don't, If you do, post a link please.


A reasonable report, a fairly balanced report, is this ASPI report from October 2018:

Thinking through submarine transition

Below is the 46 page PDF linked to the above page:

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/ad-aspi/2018-10/SR 128 Thinking through sub transition.pdf?hBI2AIjcgfCmWfgSWQTwaTl5fiQoCgkm

Cheers,

Thanks for the link John, very thought provoking.

 

[spoz]

Believe that Naval Group will have the contract to build the Attacks. Whether they plan/intend having ASC or a subsidiary of it run the yard, remembering that part at least of ASC has already been “sold” to BAE, is I think presently an unknown.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Actually I don’t agree that T26 blocks should move. The yard is designed to be efficient with all building on site. It may be able to cut plate for other projects (using the DDG facility perhaps) but I would not muck around with the integrated process that is planned

I wasn't thinking t26 hunters. More like the opvs and other types. Block builds or final fitouts may help bridge work until things fit into a continuous mode. If a yard is struggling it may be useful to have the ability to reassign some blocks. In this context I am thinking of the more greenfield sites where the might be more risk. I don't think we need to upgrade any lifting, Henderson could build blocks for large ship's and final assembly could happen at osborne.

 

[John Newman]

To quote a previous Kiwi PM, when he left NZ the IQs of NZ and Australia both rose. Has he renounced his Kiwi citizenship yet?

I assume he has renounced his Kiwi citizenship, or otherwise he should be kicked out of the Oz Senate!!

As for Oz and Kiwi IQs, I always like the old joke "What do you call an intellectual Kiwi? A Suburb!!" Ha ha!!!

Only joking mate, you know I love you (in a manly mate sort of way that is!)

 

[John Newman]

Thanks for the link John, very thought provoking.

No problem Chris, it is a very thought proving report. (I read it when it came out last year, will do a re-read this weekend if I get the time).

Putting aside the state v state political bullshit, it is a very important issue that needs to be resolved.

Just quickly, it would appear firstly that there needs to be a decision as to how exactly ASC Submarines fits into the big future picture with Naval Group (NG), will they become a 'subsidy' of NG at some point in the near future? Maybe similar to how ASC Shipbuilding is becoming a subsidy of BAE during the Hunter build program.

Anyway, need to have a property re-read of the ASPI report first, then make a more detailed comment.

Cheers,

 

[ASSAIL]

Good news, HMAS Sydney DDG42 has sailed for builders trials

Royal Australian Navy