Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[ASSAIL]

Hi Assail

You have just answered the question I was about to ask re Wharf location ( Thanks Pusser01 )
Is this new wharf to be used solely for defence?

Not being familiar with Darwin, I had a look on Google Maps and interestingly there appears to be an LHD tied up at a near by wharf, which I think is called Stokes Hill Wharf.
It appears to be a French Mistral class LHD, Can you confirm seeing said ship in those waters.
I would imagine this location is the current wharf for the Canberra class to dock when in Darwin.

All the best up North

Regards S

Fort Hill wharfis where Mistral and others berth, it is the main cruise ship berth and leased to Landbridge as part of the 99 yr harbour facilities lease.

The proposed wharf is in the same location as DNB (Darwin Naval Base) but is outside the rock wall which protects the PBS from tide and swell. It sits in the strongest tidal streams experienced in the harbour, up to 4.5 Kts on top springs.

 

[ASSAIL]

I see Ray Griggs has been passsed over for CDF and the PM announced that Angus Campbell gets the job.
Posters on here have consistently reported that Griggs is an excellent leader and I would have assumed that it was the RANs time for The CDF role.
Has Griggs marital ruction bitten him on the backside or was it the case that Campbell is the political darling from his time advising PM&C? We know that the PM is the moral policeman of the moment.

 

[aussienscale]

I see Ray Griggs has been passsed over for CDF and the PM announced that Angus Campbell gets the job.
Posters on here have consistently reported that Griggs is an excellent leader and I would have assumed that it was the RANs time for The CDF role.
Has Griggs marital ruction bitten him on the backside or was it the case that Campbell is the political darling from his time advising PM&C? We know that the PM is the moral policeman of the moment.

I think you are right, Campbell is the little star of the day, and not saying he is not capable or deserving, but yet more political interference in the process. I knew Ray when he was a 2 ring Nav on JB. Very very intellectual man, and a natural born leader who gains instant respect and rapport with most.

A real loss he has been passed over for the role !

Cheers

 

[Stampede]

The LHD visible on google maps is a French Mistral class. Directly ahead of it is a french Lafayette class frigate and I think a pre-ASMD ANZAC class.

Thanks for the reply

I would imagine the LHD would always sail with an escort and the shape of one of the ships looked very much like a Lafayette.

The French Navy with three LHD's has much more scope for distant operations and availability than with just two in the fleet.
I therefore wonder if there is some cope for adjustment to the DWP re global events and the incoming of new service chiefs.
Maybe some light may be shed on the LCH replacement ( Remember those ) and what shape and form of new of vessel to replace / supplement HMAS Choules.
Time to look at the number of Hulls and rationalise the types I say......................Spain and her domestic challenges might be able to do a good deal on a third Cantabria and LHD.
Three of each for our future larger navy is not unreasonable looking at the 2020's / 30's
Six ships instead of Five is doable.

But then again the army may have a better ambassador than the Navy for future spending.

Time will tell.

Regards S

 

[Raven22]

I think you are right, Campbell is the little star of the day, and not saying he is not capable or deserving, but yet more political interference in the process. I knew Ray when he was a 2 ring Nav on JB. Very very intellectual man, and a natural born leader who gains instant respect and rapport with most.

A real loss he has been passed over for the role !

Cheers

Political interference? Who else do you think is going to pick the CDF?

 

[spoz]

While it is always a Government, and thus political, appointment, it’s still disappointing that there will now have been three Army and two AF CDFs since the last Navy appointee.

 

[old faithful]

While it is always a Government, and thus political, appointment, it’s still disappointing that there will now have been three Army and two AF CDFs since the last Navy appointee.

Well they have picked the most suitable person, end of story. If Navy had a more suitable person, it would have been him/her.

 

[aussienscale]

Political interference? Who else do you think is going to pick the CDF?

Yes, meant what I said, and I do know how the system works, so don't try and lecture me, my opinion, you have yours.

 

[old faithful]

I see Ray Griggs has been passsed over for CDF and the PM announced that Angus Campbell gets the job.
Posters on here have consistently reported that Griggs is an excellent leader and I would have assumed that it was the RANs time for The CDF role.
Has Griggs marital ruction bitten him on the backside or was it the case that Campbell is the political darling from his time advising PM&C? We know that the PM is the moral policeman of the moment.

I did my basic para course with Angus Campbell in 1986. He won the sword of honor at RMC in 85. By 88/9 he was a captain in SASR. He is a very capable bloke and EARNT the repect of his men

 

[Raven22]

Yes, meant what I said, and I do know how the system works, so don't try and lecture me, my opinion, you have yours.

No, if you said you believed that Ray Griggs was a more deserving recipient, that would be your opinion.

However you stated that Angus Campbell only got the job as the result of political interference. That is not a statement of opinion.

 

[spoz]

Well they have picked the most suitable person, end of story. If Navy had a more suitable person, it would have been him/her.

“More suitable” in this context means “more acceptable to Government”. If Tim Barrett had left his hat in ring it would have been interesting to see what the result was. But from the perspective of Navy, the constant apparent belief that Army and AF officers are “more suitable” is not a positive motivator.

And, BTW, I have directly served with all the officers mentioned in the Minister’s press release except CAF. They are all good.

 

[old faithful]

“More suitable” in this context means “more acceptable to Government”. If Tim Barrett had left his hat in ring it would have been interesting to see what the result was. But from the perspective of Navy, the constant apparent belief that Army and AF officers are “more suitable” is not a positive motivator.

And, BTW, I have directly served with all the officers mentioned in the Minister’s press release except CAF. They are all good.

I'm sure they are all good, hard to bluff your way past WO2 as an OR or Major as an Officer.

 

[ASSAIL]

An interesting development from the West today. Lurssen has chosen Civmec for the major role in building the OPVs. They are redeveloping their facility at Henderson and will be the final assembler of the ships.
Despite government direction that Austal will be involved it remains unclear what that actual involvement will be.

Civmec snares key patrol vessel role over rival AustalP

 

[StingrayOZ]

Not surprised, it seemed odd when they made the announcement and "everyone is a winner". Civmecs WA facility seems quite impressive. Not just for the OPV but also perhaps supporting the future frigates. I imagine if ASC/techport drops the ball, and someone was looking for a competitive yard to pass work off to, Civmec would be waiting in the wings with the WA mafia. All tooled up and with OPV builds underway. Blocks could come out of there (?), or maybe even final ship assembly (??). A bit of stick to keep things on track.

Government can't afford a major clusterfork, there needs to be options.

Also balancing the subs and frigates could be tricky, timing might need to be adjusted due to technical or strategic needs.
I only see Austal picking up peicemeal stuff. I imagine they will be pestering around all ship builds looking for something bower bird style.

Given the current strategic outlook, I see only tremendous pressure on all defence projects to get them up and running ASAP and looking at expansion for the future.

 

[aussienscale]

No, if you said you believed that Ray Griggs was a more deserving recipient, that would be your opinion.

However you stated that Angus Campbell only got the job as the result of political interference. That is not a statement of opinion.

No not the case at all, and I did state that he is capable of the role, along with no doubt others as well, and said he is possibly deserving. My opinion is what is written, don't presume to know what I am thinking because you want to be anal about a few written words as usual, not my concern how you have taken it.

 

[76mmGuns]

Speaking of the OPV80, does anyone know why the 3 options all have large rectangular spaces/windows in the rear25-35% of the ship? Doesn't that mean water floods the rear when it's a higher sea state, and everything is likely to rust faster?

 

[oldsig127]

Speaking of the OPV80, does anyone know why the 3 options all have large rectangular spaces/windows in the rear25-35% of the ship? Doesn't that mean water floods the rear when it's a higher sea state, and everything is likely to rust faster?

Mission deck I should think. To provide accessible covered space for specialised equipment, containerised or otherwise, boats and crew.

oldsig

 

[spoz]

The area under the flight deck? That's the upper deck, OldSig suggested it's the "mission deck" for a bunch of activities including boat launching down the stern ramp, container stowage, berthing etc. Many ships are designed that way; a higher forecastle with a break down to what in a merchant ship is called the main deck and in a warship is usually1 deck. Effectively, in the Lurssen design the flight deck is built over that; and it looks a bit more enclosed than they often do. One of the advantages over a flush deck is that it decreases hull weight; but reduced height to the sea surface and a relatively protected work area can also be useful things. Normally you only take significant water inboard in very heavy seas; and it's no more prone to rust than any other upper deck surface. You may notice that there are freeing ports at deck level to clear water which does find its way inboard. If you have a look at a pre ASMD ANZAC, and many other warship classes and ships designed to take helicopters such Coast Guard Cutters you'll see the same design of the space under the flight deck.

 

[alexsa]

The area under the flight deck? That's the upper deck, OldSig suggested it's the "mission deck" for a bunch of activities including boat launching down the stern ramp, container stowage, berthing etc. Many ships are designed that way; a higher forecastle with a break down to what in a merchant ship is called the main deck and in a warship is usually1 deck. Effectively, in the Lurssen design the flight deck is built over that; and it looks a bit more enclosed than they often do. One of the advantages over a flush deck is that it decreases hull weight; but reduced height to the sea surface and a relatively protected work area can also be useful things. Normally you only take significant water inboard in very heavy seas; and it's no more prone to rust than any other upper deck surface. You may notice that there are freeing ports at deck level to clear water which does find its way inboard. If you have a look at a pre ASMD ANZAC, and many other warship classes and ships designed to take helicopters such Coast Guard Cutters you'll see the same design of the space under the flight deck.

A couple of issues:
1. This structure would provide significant strength to the hull in both the support of the flight deck as well as the longtitudinal strength of the hull as a whole.
2. It protects the gear on the freeboard deck from the direct impact of the sea, The structure breaks up the wave.
3. The structure restricts the flow of water onto the deck unless you are silly enough to get pooped.
4. Plating up adds weight. If the ship does not need a greater buoyant volume then this is a weight saving.

 

[StingrayOZ]

Defence industrial plan soon for release

Wonder if the defense plan and the sea5000 announcement will coincide.